Confused, mad, embarrassed, intrigued

  • TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11078
    #2030793

    We all have opinions and thoughts…but emotions and feelings aside, what are your predictions for the outcome?

    Well, starting with 2nd-degree manslaughter, that appears to me to be a slam-dunk. The prosecution only had to prove “that Chauvin caused Floyd’s death through culpable negligence that created an unreasonable risk.” After all the testimony the jury heard, it would be difficult to understand how they could not find that Chauvin’s actions created an unreasonable risk. Guilty.

    Third-degree murder requires “…jurors must find Chauvin caused Floyd’s death through an action that was “eminently dangerous” and carried out with a reckless disregard for and conscious indifference to the loss of life.” IMO, the jury heard plenty of evidence to clear that bar. Guilty.

    Second-degree unintentional murder – Prosecutors “had to show that Chauvin killed Floyd while committing or trying to commit a felony — in this case, third-degree assault. They didn’t have to prove Chauvin intended to kill Floyd, only that he intended to apply an unlawful force that caused bodily harm.”

    I get hung up on “intended to apply” in the above. Will the jury have seen evidence enough of the intent to apply unlawful force? The intent is very difficult to know without direct testimony or other smoking-gun evidence the directly speaks to what Chauvin’s intent was. Unless the jury essentially says the length of Chauvin’s knee-on-neck restraint alone proves intent. I’m predicting not guilty on this charge, but I would not be surprised if the jury went guilty here too.

    What I don’t see after all this is any chance of acquittal.

    And then let the appeals begin. First up will be challenging that the case should have been moved out of Minneapolis. Next up will be the timing of the City of Minneapolis settlement with the Floyd family. Those two should keep this going for years.

    brad-o
    Mankato
    Posts: 410
    #2030803

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>buckybadger wrote:</div>
    We all have opinions and thoughts…but emotions and feelings aside, what are your predictions for the outcome?

    Well, starting with 2nd-degree manslaughter, that appears to me to be a slam-dunk. The prosecution only had to prove “that Chauvin caused Floyd’s death through culpable negligence that created an unreasonable risk.” After all the testimony the jury heard, it would be difficult to understand how they could not find that Chauvin’s actions created an unreasonable risk. Guilty.

    Third-degree murder requires “…jurors must find Chauvin caused Floyd’s death through an action that was “eminently dangerous” and carried out with a reckless disregard for and conscious indifference to the loss of life.” IMO, the jury heard plenty of evidence to clear that bar. Guilty.

    Second-degree unintentional murder – Prosecutors “had to show that Chauvin killed Floyd while committing or trying to commit a felony — in this case, third-degree assault. They didn’t have to prove Chauvin intended to kill Floyd, only that he intended to apply an unlawful force that caused bodily harm.”

    I get hung up on “intended to apply” in the above. Will the jury have seen evidence enough of the intent to apply unlawful force? The intent is very difficult to know without direct testimony or other smoking-gun evidence the directly speaks to what Chauvin’s intent was. Unless the jury essentially says the length of Chauvin’s knee-on-neck restraint alone proves intent. I’m predicting not guilty on this charge, but I would not be surprised if the jury went guilty here too.

    What I don’t see after all this is any chance of acquittal.

    And then let the appeals begin. First up will be challenging that the case should have been moved out of Minneapolis. Next up will be the timing of the City of Minneapolis settlement with the Floyd family. Those two should keep this going for years.

    I agree with your take on this.

    gimruis
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts: 15093
    #2030808

    The reference to Representative Maxine Waters near the end of the trial is interesting. Even Judge Cahill didn’t seem too pleased about her comments.

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13297
    #2030810

    My prayers to the many people that will be affected by the outcome. “Justice” what a concept in today’s world. Regardless of the jury’s verdict, there will be many extreme views and no sentence will satisfy all. I agree very much with the judge’s comments when he addressed counsel about politics. We need to respect the judicial process

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 21898
    #2030829

    When there are congress persons, who are sworn to uphold our constitution, inciting and insinuating if the jury does not return the verdict she wants, the confrontations will escalate, the process has already been corrupted. Appeals laid at his feet from her today and riots almost certain. Watters should be the next one on trial.

    buckybadger
    Upper Midwest
    Posts: 7384
    #2030830

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>buckybadger wrote:</div>
    We all have opinions and thoughts…but emotions and feelings aside, what are your predictions for the outcome?

    Well, starting with 2nd-degree manslaughter, that appears to me to be a slam-dunk. The prosecution only had to prove “that Chauvin caused Floyd’s death through culpable negligence that created an unreasonable risk.” After all the testimony the jury heard, it would be difficult to understand how they could not find that Chauvin’s actions created an unreasonable risk. Guilty.

    Third-degree murder requires “…jurors must find Chauvin caused Floyd’s death through an action that was “eminently dangerous” and carried out with a reckless disregard for and conscious indifference to the loss of life.” IMO, the jury heard plenty of evidence to clear that bar. Guilty.

    Second-degree unintentional murder – Prosecutors “had to show that Chauvin killed Floyd while committing or trying to commit a felony — in this case, third-degree assault. They didn’t have to prove Chauvin intended to kill Floyd, only that he intended to apply an unlawful force that caused bodily harm.”

    I get hung up on “intended to apply” in the above. Will the jury have seen evidence enough of the intent to apply unlawful force? The intent is very difficult to know without direct testimony or other smoking-gun evidence the directly speaks to what Chauvin’s intent was. Unless the jury essentially says the length of Chauvin’s knee-on-neck restraint alone proves intent. I’m predicting not guilty on this charge, but I would not be surprised if the jury went guilty here too.

    What I don’t see after all this is any chance of acquittal.

    And then let the appeals begin. First up will be challenging that the case should have been moved out of Minneapolis. Next up will be the timing of the City of Minneapolis settlement with the Floyd family. Those two should keep this going for years.

    Exactly what I’m thinking on each of the charges. I’d be curious to hear clearly why people think it will play out differently other than just shouting off the cuff statements.

    Again, my predictions are not necessarily my feelings on the case, just my prediction.

    Brad Dimond
    Posts: 1288
    #2030831

    I agree with grouse on the manslaughter conviction, when an officer has someone in control they have a duty to ensure their welfare. Kneeling on someone who hasn’t breathed for four minutes certainly constitutes “reckless disregard for and conscious indifference” to that person’s welfare. The murder charges are murkier for me, they require intent even if the intent is not to kill. Nelson may have cast reasonable doubt there.

    mxskeeter
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts: 3578
    #2030835

    M Waters should not be in MN and demanding for violence if a guilty verdict of murder is not the outcome. That should not be allowed when supposedly a person is supposed to get a fair trial. JMO

    Coletrain27
    Posts: 4789
    #2030844

    It’s not that hard to simply comply with police when asked. How would it go if I told my 8 year old son not to listen to a thing his school teacher and principle said.

    With a mouthful of pills that he had how can you ignore that the drugs didn’t have something to do with his death coffee

    Reef W
    Posts: 2204
    #2030848

    How would it go if I told my 8 year old son not to listen to a thing his school teacher and principle said.

    They wouldn’t kill him so I’m not really sure what your point is supposed to be. ???

    Coletrain27
    Posts: 4789
    #2030852

    My point is kids should be taught to listen to authority instead of doing whatever they please

    Bearcat89
    North branch, mn
    Posts: 18136
    #2030902

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Coletrain27 wrote:</div>
    How would it go if I told my 8 year old son not to listen to a thing his school teacher and principle said.

    They wouldn’t kill him so I’m not really sure what your point is supposed to be. ???

    It’s called raise your kids to respect authority. And raise them with discipline. We are starting to see the generation that didn’t agree with spankings.

    gimruis
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts: 15093
    #2030914

    M Waters should not be in MN and demanding for violence if a guilty verdict of murder is not the outcome. That should not be allowed when supposedly a person is supposed to get a fair trial. JMO

    Clearly could affect this deliberation considering it was brought up in court. Judge Cahill himself indicated that her presence and words were not helping and could be grounds for an appeal.

    Stay in your own state and worry about your own problems, Rep Waters. What she said is nearing the line of inciting violence, riots, and more problems which is exactly what we’re trying to avoid here.

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 19821
    #2030931

    Clearly could affect this deliberation considering it was brought up in court. Judge Cahill himself indicated that her presence and words were not helping and could be grounds for an appeal.

    Stay in your own state and worry about your own problems, Rep Waters. What she said is nearing the line of inciting violence, riots, and more problems which is exactly what we’re trying to avoid here.

    Well, we have the Mayor of the largest city in the State and our Governor pretty much saying almost the same things. The politics around this are enraging people and that is what is going to drive the fury regardless of the outcome. They are already building barricades downtown, there are gallons of milk sitting along I94. Why? You know what is being planned and these are ways to prepare for the inevitable.

    Bearcat89
    North branch, mn
    Posts: 18136
    #2030939

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>gimruis wrote:</div>
    Clearly could affect this deliberation considering it was brought up in court. Judge Cahill himself indicated that her presence and words were not helping and could be grounds for an appeal.

    Stay in your own state and worry about your own problems, Rep Waters. What she said is nearing the line of inciting violence, riots, and more problems which is exactly what we’re trying to avoid here.

    Well, we have the Mayor of the largest city in the State and our Governor pretty much saying almost the same things. The politics around this are enraging people and that is what is going to drive the fury regardless of the outcome. They are already building barricades downtown, there are gallons of milk sitting along I94. Why? You know what is being planned and these are ways to prepare for the inevitable.

    Whats the milk for ? Easing the pepper spray ?

    Dutchboy
    Central Mn.
    Posts: 16137
    #2030975

    If them dopes are dumb enough to hit the freeways again where the cops can control them they they’ll get what they deserve.

    gregory
    Red wing,mn
    Posts: 1597
    #2030987

    Gonna be a interesting outcome either way. IMO

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 21898
    #2031060

    And now a President “praying for the right verdict”.. meaning there is a wrong one. A nation without laws, ceases to be a nation.

    rjthehunter
    Brainerd
    Posts: 1253
    #2031081

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Coletrain27 wrote:</div>
    How would it go if I told my 8 year old son not to listen to a thing his school teacher and principle said.

    They wouldn’t kill him so I’m not really sure what your point is supposed to be. ???

    You’ve clearly missed the point Cole made. Quote the whole post. Don’t just respond to a section of a post.
    I think everyone here understands you’re going to be among the population that’s upset about a career criminals death. Whether or not it was due to the immense drugs in his system or not you’re just pointing your finger.

    Eelpoutguy
    Farmington, Outing
    Posts: 9951
    #2031090

    I’m thinkin today is a good day to drive to the lake and fix a dock. I won’t need any milk up there.

    belletaine
    Nevis, MN
    Posts: 5116
    #2031112

    The verdict is in and will be read at 4:00.

    gregory
    Red wing,mn
    Posts: 1597
    #2031115

    The verdict is in and will be read at 4:00.

    Must be giving everyone a chance to get out of the city… or in..
    Was there any Oreos by the milk on 94?

    Bearcat89
    North branch, mn
    Posts: 18136
    #2031116

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>belletaine wrote:</div>
    The verdict is in and will be read at 4:00.

    Must be giving everyone a chance to get out of the city… or in..
    Was there any Oreos by the milk on 94?

    I’ve been up and down 94 twice. Only seen garbage and trash like normal. No milk.

    Reef W
    Posts: 2204
    #2031118

    I think everyone here understands you’re going to be among the population that’s upset about a career criminals death. Whether or not it was due to the immense drugs in his system or not you’re just pointing your finger.

    I’m not upset if a career criminal dies. I’m upset when the police kill anybody outside the scope of when I think they should be allowed to. It’s weird that is viewed as some leftist idea while the (supposed) don’t tread on me law and order people completely support government agents killing anybody who doesn’t properly comply to arbitrary standards.

    gimruis
    Plymouth, MN
    Posts: 15093
    #2031122

    I think they will have a verdict of guilty on the lesser two charges and not guilty on 2nd degree murder. Considering they’ve only deliberated for slightly more than a day on this, they likely have a conclusion on at least one of the charges.

    suzuki
    Woodbury, Mn
    Posts: 18145
    #2031130

    Imagine being on that jury and being given the option of

    A) Your house gets burned down and loved ones murdered.

    B) A million dollar book deal.

    They’d throw the book at Jesus.

    Pailofperch
    Central Mn North of the smiley water tower
    Posts: 2764
    #2031134

    We’re all justified in expecting chaos and destruction, i really hope we’re wrong! 🙏

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