Hookup Ratio?

  • CastJigBAM
    Posts: 36
    #1239633

    Am I doing something wrong? This season I’m hitting muskie’s at full force, been out 4 times already. My hook up ratio has totally “sucked” lately. So far for the start of the season I’m 1 fish for 11 total hits. 6 hits and miss on the jerk close to boat side, you see them dash, somehow miss or no hookup, swirl, then swim away. The last 4 hit were on topwater. Last night I threw the good old foot long stick/walk the dog lure and had two massive hits right in a row and darn fish still missed the 3 treble hooks 2 times in a row throwing back to back. Any one got any ideas on how to increase my hook up?

    shoot_n_release
    Mora, MN
    Posts: 756
    #578252

    If you tell me what lake you are fishing, and the spot where you are getting hit, I can perform a scientific study on the fish. I’ll let you know if it’s you or the fish that is reducing your hook-up percentage. Please feel free to PM me all relevant information. Ok, just kidding. It sounds like you’re having a good time anyways.

    Lars

    mark_johnson
    St. Croix River
    Posts: 940
    #578256

    I had a night on Mille Lacs a few years back where we had 21 follows/blow-ups and ended up getting only 2 fish 4 days later we went back expecting the same….and got it, kinda. ONly 3 blow-ups, but still caught 2 fish.
    Some of it is just plain bad luck, but I have always had a lower hookup rate on walk the dog baits….they attract the fish but unless they are on a feeding terror they just take a swat at it and move on . Maybe there is something with speed or rhythm that would help but I havent figured it out yet…
    Either way, sounds like you are getting some good action on the water

    david_scott
    Twin Cities
    Posts: 2946
    #578304

    It sounds like instinct strikes to me.. similar to seeing pike swat at a lure 10 times on the same cast and never get hooked.

    I have gotten lots of that in the past on topwaters for muskies. I quit fishing topwaters when I had 2 fish the same day come out of the water and do 1/2 flips while narrowly missing my lure.. these were not small ski’s either.

    gary_wellman
    South Metro
    Posts: 6057
    #578349

    What type of dog-walker are you using? It is “common” to have fish miss these. It happens. Best bet is to glance at the lure once in a while, but watch the birds and pleasure boats while fishing this way. It keeps you from prematurely setting the hook. However, that does take the thrill and excitement out of topwater fishing, doesn’t it?

    A recommendation when you have a fish blow up on you like that. Leave it alone for a good hour. A good LONG hour. Don’t pound the water brutally and spook it or condition it. Giver her an hour and come back with a glider or twitch a crank!

    CastJigBAM
    Posts: 36
    #578361

    Thats kind of what I figured, either they just tapping or playing around with the lure quick and return to their layer. Just thinking if there’s something wrong with the way I jerk the lure. Do muskies hang on or they just hit and spit?

    This year I am seeking a more pressure on the lakes I fish then before. Yesterday I was fishing one zone with 5 other boats joining me (all other spots were filled also)…but its seems the go to bait for most people are topwater buzzers. I swear if I put more “umph” into my cast I can get my bait in the other guys boat. I think that could be one cause also.

    As for the lakes, metro wise has been treating me good with excitement, except nothing to show for it. So if your wondering where I am getting so many hits, its just around the metro. Yesterday couldn’t be better, the weather right around 7pm, was calm and still as ever and fish were active all along the deep water breaks and shoreline within 6-10ft with with weed growth were my main targeting areas with water temp in low 70’s. Considering from what I’ve seen, stay away from top water buzzers because every boat seems to be throwing them, but up to you.

    CastJigBAM
    Posts: 36
    #578376

    Thanks Gary, I think thats one thing I got to learn to do. Its so frustrating sometimes when you have a good hit and miss and your like “what the f??? just happened?” Then you keep trying to repeat that process of casting back to try and connect one more time. Got to learn how to ease it and come back later.

    But secondly I want to comment, how the heck do them STUPID bass and northerns always manage to hook up while ski’s always get away?

    gary_wellman
    South Metro
    Posts: 6057
    #578379

    Quote:


    But secondly I want to comment, how the heck do them STUPID bass and northerns always manage to hook up while ski’s always get away?


    I hear ya. I don’t get how a 15″ pike can grab a Viper, but a 50″ muskie misses it!

    average-joe
    Hudson, WI
    Posts: 2376
    #578384

    Don’t feel to bad, because you’re deffinately doing somthing right and you’re seeing fish. I had a night like that last night. I was out on my favorite river and I was casting a super X-rap (that thing has tons of hooks) and a muskie about 40″-42″ shot out from under the boat and was hot on my bait, I went into my circle at the boat and she just engulfed it. I think with all the action I some how forgot to put the screws to her I guess I was just afraid to pull the bait out of her mouth. So during the ensuing fight and Cluster F??? geting the net out, the bait came out So I’m still Skiless for the season, and I was soo close to getting my first ever casting muskie.

    agentesox
    Minneapolis, Minnesota
    Posts: 78
    #578411

    Yeah those “walk the dog” baits aren’t the best hookers. Might want to try one of these, they have wide gap hooks and three trebles instead of the common two. Better hooking walk the dogs for sure.

    http://www.thornebros.com/muskie/baits/topwater/topwater_muskymojo.html

    Might I also suggest that, if the fish are blowing up all over your topwater to switch to a bucktail and burn it under the surface. Then you’ll have a much better hooking bait. I’m not really sure what Gary is getting at but I think he’s saying to NOT look at or around your topwater bait? Interesting theory if that’s what he’s saying, not one I would suggest, not being in tune with everything going on to do with your fishing is never a good practice especially when Muskie fishing. I would always want to know if I have a fish following my bait so that I can react with a speed or direction change to trigger a strike or if the fish swipes at it and misses I can see what direction he went for a cast back.

    Never set the hook on what you see, set it on what you feel.See the fish strike, see the water splash but feel weight and then let’em have it.

    Hope that helps

    CastJigBAM
    Posts: 36
    #578421

    I have been looking at those too the other day when I was at thornes, the only thing holding me back is I have a few of these “VIRGIN” lures that ran me 15-25 bucks a pop, if you know what I mean. Plus I have really been concentrating on only working with gliding jerks, new thing for ’07, helps with the unconventional habit of buying lures. Topwater jerk/crank are easier on the arms, good for the occasional break. But I might have fork up a few bucks for a one or two of those, they are tad bit shorter with good weight and the 3trebs are a plus.

    Reason why I walked the dog in that spot is there is an weed channel right in casting reach which seems like the ultimate ambush spot between two shallow tips. Hard to throw anything that submerges due to weed growth but in that particular spot there is almost a open highway. Only noticed this due to ripping off weeds on the trolling motor and getting drifted into the weed patches a while back. Most ski guys never really go right into the weeds, unlike them bass guys. But them ski’s sure like the presentation of some thing wobbling side to side coming from shallow to over deep water and back shallow.

    gary_wellman
    South Metro
    Posts: 6057
    #578706

    Jason;
    What I’m referring too, is if you are prematurely setting the hook and you can’t get away from it (some people can’t help it), then don’t be staring at your bait like a cat ready to pounce a mouse. You’ll become your own worse enemy trying to hook a fish.

    We all miss fish on topwater and all the fish miss your baits too, on topwater. Just the name of the game.

    agentesox
    Minneapolis, Minnesota
    Posts: 78
    #578764

    Gary,

    I get what you’re saying I just do things differently, not better, just different than you. You should stick with whatever works for you, getting used to something and settling in on a tactic is important. I feel alot of it is based on experience, newbies are always way more amped up and jerky. After enough topwater experiences everyone settles down and they start catching more fish on top. It probably helps that I’m a bit more sluggish on the hook set too. Fish do miss more on topwaters, that I’ll agree on. I don’t throw “walk the dog” much because of that and if I do it’s a Weagle worked at a snails pace,big slow bait that’s real easy for them to target. Most of my topwater action is on prop baits, straight trackers that don’t dart around so that they are easy for them to find and hit. That’s the same reason I don’t like gliders, if I can get a fish to commit the last thing I want is a bait that I feel the action makes it hard for a fish to hit and that hooks poorly. Now that’s my experience, I know gliders catch tons of fish and I know guys that love them…just not for me. Most importantly I almost always change out the hooks on my topwater to 7/0 Eagle Claw 774’s, “T” them or shrink tube them if need be and make sure they are razor sharpe. I’ve noticed a huge increase in keeping fish pinned on topwater since I changed to the 774’s after Brett at Thornes suggested it.

    agentesox
    Minneapolis, Minnesota
    Posts: 78
    #578767

    Quote:


    I have been looking at those too the other day when I was at thornes, the only thing holding me back is I have a few of these “VIRGIN” lures that ran me 15-25 bucks a pop, if you know what I mean. Plus I have really been concentrating on only working with gliding jerks, new thing for ’07, helps with the unconventional habit of buying lures. Topwater jerk/crank are easier on the arms, good for the occasional break. But I might have fork up a few bucks for a one or two of those, they are tad bit shorter with good weight and the 3trebs are a plus.

    Reason why I walked the dog in that spot is there is an weed channel right in casting reach which seems like the ultimate ambush spot between two shallow tips. Hard to throw anything that submerges due to weed growth but in that particular spot there is almost a open highway. Only noticed this due to ripping off weeds on the trolling motor and getting drifted into the weed patches a while back. Most ski guys never really go right into the weeds, unlike them bass guys. But them ski’s sure like the presentation of some thing wobbling side to side coming from shallow to over deep water and back shallow.


    Sounds like a great spot, keep it under your hat and it should produce all season for you. Sounds like it could be a good spot for a spinnerbait also. I can’t wait to get out fishing, only have been out once so far for a half day. Two follows from cookie cutter mid-forties fish that
    I couldn’t get to eat. Have been stuck in “Honey do hell” all week but It’s on next week

    Have a great season CJB!

    gary_wellman
    South Metro
    Posts: 6057
    #578795

    Good info Jason!

    That shrinkwrap tubing is critical too! A good reason why the Top Raiders have a good hooking percentage on the tail hook.

    stillakid2
    Roberts, WI
    Posts: 4603
    #579012

    I’ve noticed from fishing videos (as well as my own mistakes) that walking the dog as a technique seems to lend itself to lesser or poorer hookups. Unless the fish accurately bursts for the lure from underneath and you “feel” the fish prior to setting the hook, the action itself is lending to a lower hooking percentage.

    I’ve had the priviledge of watching muskies stalk and attack lures and OFTEN, the decision to strike is surprisingly slow! One dart to the right as the muskie calculates a dart left and you’ve already increased the possibility for a poor hookup.

    If going to a larger treble with shrink tubing helps overpower the deficiencies of this technique, I wouldn’t do anything else. I have a hard time getting excited about topwater walkers because of this very issue. If I raise a dozen fish, I’d better do better than one fish hooking up. If I don’t, I’d better know what the remedy is or I’ll no longer do it. I know I need work on my boatside techniques (8’s, circles, 90’s with a dive…..) but I found a negative in some of my equipment last year. Replaced and now I’m ready for action……. if I could just get some time off without crappy weather!!! I STILL haven’t gotten out yet and if I can’t make it this coming Tuesday, I’ll have to wait until June 20th! ARRRGH!!!!!

    Also, bass and pike miss these lures a lot too. From the bass articles covering topwater lures, I think there’s a very important point discussed……… the angle of the strike.

    Muskies like to stalk and are often shown to come from behind, slightly below the bait. Think about the angle the fish has to grab the lure as well as the position of the lure when the fish has to engulf it. It seldom torpedos into the fishes mouth nor is it often a direct sideways bite. Look at the pictures of muskies shown taking other fish. Sideways, sideways, sideways! Again, the action of the lures along with their action positioning just flat out lend themselves to needing an exact alignment of circumstances for any moderation of success.

    Bass topwaters that improved hookups came to rest with the tail sitting lower than the head, allowing the fish to “torpedo” the bite. The lure gets into the mouth much easier. But how does this apply to walking-the-dog? Well……… it doesn’t. But it helps explain why the hookup percentages can be lower than other methods and also why success can be so inconsistant.

    The way I see it, I would need to desire a new challenge for musky fishing to use topwaters as my go to presentation. I figure that at my current skill level, I work hard enough to find fish that I don’t want to waste that energy on a presentation that is LIKELY to fail.

    As agentesox pointed out, different strokes for different folks, but this is why I spend more time working other techniques. The lure action, position, and strike angle only lend themselves to a greater challenge…….. and I’m not looking to add to my challenges…….yet.

    haner
    Posts: 245
    #579059

    I have had many similar experiences with the side to side topwaters. Its called the Jackpot blues. Its fun watching blow ups, but putting 1 out of every 7 blow ups in the boat is not. I gave up on the side to sides. I tried many different types and doesnt really seem to matter. Pots, Docs, Vipers, Weagles all had similar results.

    gary_wellman
    South Metro
    Posts: 6057
    #579106

    Quote:


    Most importantly I almost always change out the hooks on my topwater to 7/0 Eagle Claw 774’s, “T” them or shrink tube them if need be and make sure they are razor sharpe. I’ve noticed a huge increase in keeping fish pinned on topwater since I changed to the 774’s after Brett at Thornes suggested it.


    Jason;
    Are these hooks are shorter shank / longer shank ??? What makes them special?

Viewing 18 posts - 1 through 18 (of 18 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.