Keeping Up With the Jones- $145,000 Walleye Boats

My wife and I had a boat which for me was my second boat in life. We had a very easy conversation, she saw the price of new aluminum boats and said whoa we should buy a brand new one. This was in 2018… I don’t think my boat has actually depreciated at all since then. I got offered a trade in last year that was within a couple hundred dollars of the original sticker price from 2018.

Can’t imagine making payments for 30 years on a boat. Can’t imagine making payments for 30 years on anything to be honest… We did sign a 30-year mortgage for the house I guess but it will be paid off before then.

I think just like with the fancy wheelhouses, I think a lot of these are small business owners who need to take money out of the business every year or it will be taxed. It’s farmers who need to play similar tax games. My guess is they pay it all in cash or finance a smaller amount than what you see.

I also think that post-covid people are still saying f it and just living life. So many people have homes locked into super low interest rates, have jobs that pay well, etc. People can afford this kind of stuff. It’s a different time of a lot of wealth by so many people.

I bought new right before prices got crazy-could never find what I wanted in the used market or I would have. Does not matter that a thing is new and shiny its just a tool.

queenswake wrote:

February 18, 2024 at 4:16 pm#2254881
I think just like with the fancy wheelhouses, I think a lot of these are small business owners who need to take money out of the business every year or it will be taxed. It’s farmers who need to play similar tax games. My guess is they pay it all in cash or finance a smaller amount than what you see.

What?
You would need to prove it is for business. You would need to come up with a provable % that it was used for business purposes and write that off but we all know you would be lying.

I just had this conversation with my bean counter about a pontoon. She said it was not advisable as it would put me on the IRS radar.

As long as these boats:

1. Keep holding their value
2: The banks keep loaning money
3. The used market keeps staying strong

Expect the prices to just keep going up.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

What?
You would need to prove it is for business. You would need to come up with a provable % that it was used for business purposes and write that off but we all know you would be lying.

I just had this conversation with my bean counter about a pontoon. She said it was not advisable as it would put me on the IRS radar.

If your a guide or use it as part of your business such as James you can wright it off as a business expense, same for full time tournament guys if your using it to make money and can show such your good to go.

If I was a chiropractor, I would buy the nicest wheelhouse money gets and travel around the ice belt all winter doing mobile patient walk-ins and fish on the weekends. A guy can dream. All ears if someone can find a way to make that work with a boat.

Everyone thinks a “write off” = free

Reminds me of the old saying – Want to make a million dollars fishing tournaments? Start with $2 million.

-J.

gimruis wrote:

My friend was looking at a 2023 Lund Adventure series last spring with a 115 hp outboard, bow mount, 2 graphs, and a trailer. The dealer quoted him $53,500 for one last March. That conversation ended pretty quickly.

Low and behold, the exact same boat was still for sale 6 months later in September for $38,500.

Not saying that all boat prices are like that but demand changed by about $15 grand just over the course of one boating season at that dealer.

The chairman of the federal reserve is on record saying that most prices are not going to fall back to pre Covid levels. Rather, wages will catch up instead. He said if prices dropped to pre Covid levels across the board, people would lose jobs and the economy would go into a recession. He also said currently inflation is 3.1% and the average inflation rate is 3.4%. He wants it to drop down to 2%.

While that is very possible, when I see that 38.5k price it is for the boat motor and trailer. At least I hope so, that is the boat i bought in June.

Tom P. you are correct.
I took Queenswake quote as a small business owner outside of your statement.
If I did I mis-spoke

Unlike the last 20 years… I would venture the amount that the high end boats went up in the last 4 years, is significant, compared to prior hikes. Even the entry level boats shot up big time $$$$ At least the post is fishing related !

I just heard an ad for a smokercraft that starts out at $39k and I believe it was a 17 foot. That is pretty insane.

I’ve been making jokes for 20 years about what I see as the absolutely crazy prices that the Midwest walleye guys are happy to pay. And as I’ve noted many times before in these discussions, the end is NOT nigh. Prices keep going up and so does the demand.

But here’s something else to think about. We get really caught up in the “Poor America” mindset where we are all just a bunch of po folk barely able to buy the necessities of life and keep our heat on. The middle class is an endangered species, etc, etc.

But somehow, some way, the new pickups and boats and UTVs and, and, and keep rolling off the lots. New houses keep getting built and bought. I damn sure don’t see any FEWER Americans on planes heading for vacation in sunny spots now versus 25 years ago. Anybody out there planning to spend say half as much on fishing this year as they did last year? No? So if we’re all so damn poor, who’s buying all this stuff?

IMO, one thing that is forgotten is that there is a tremendous wealth transfer going on right now. Baby Boomers were the first generation to experience both the advantages of a 401k (and other tax-advantaged investments) and also benefit from large-scale home price appreciation. Now that wealth is all getting passed on to heirs just as many of those heirs have experienced 20+ years of low interest rates and a long, long stock market winning streak.

I’m not saying everyone is winning, but everyone sure as hell isn’t losing either. At the end of the day prices are driven by demand. If nobody was buying $100k+ boats, there wouldn’t be any of them out there.

“I’m not saying everyone is winning, but everyone sure as hell isn’t losing either. At the end of the day prices are driven by demand. If nobody was buying $100k+ boats, there wouldn’t be any of them out there.”

This

As I said before boats are getting bigger and more creature comforts.
18ft boat used to be huge. Not so much now. Trucks also didn’t have 4 seats, at least not front and back and SUV’s didn’t have third row seating.

Has the price shot up more recently. Sure, so has demand. Some don’t want all the bells and whistles some do.

I can’t keep up with any one.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

I damn sure don’t see any FEWER Americans on planes heading for vacation in sunny spots now versus 25 years ago.

Don’t forget that there are ~60 million more people in the US than 25 years ago too though, any 800,000 more in MN. There are a significant percentage of the population not buying boats, ATVs, or going on vacations.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

Now that wealth is all getting passed on to heirs

And I wouldn’t say “all”. A lot of it is getting blown on 145k walleye boats and 40k SxS

Pretty sure you are keeping up just fine from the post I have seen BC.
Different strokes for different folks.

I walked through Frankies yesterday and based on the prices I saw Bidennomics is in full swing.
Also consider that you might have to add in Walz’s sales tax increase on that 100k+ rig depending on where you fetch it as well.

Ripjiggen wrote:

Pretty sure you are keeping up just fine from the post I have seen BC.
Different strokes for different folks.

Yeah I do OK, I’m glad I don’t feel the need for a boat of that spectrum otherwise I’d have one. I prefer my boat to be ugly and under the radar. As long as it floats and moves, I’ll be happy. My money is invested elsewhere. One day I want to buy a newer boat. But everything I ask my self why I need a newer boat, I can’t come up with a reasonable explanation. I also hate loans, and prefer to own out right. I couldn’t write that check. When I wrote the check for my house, it hurt.

I have 2 boats, both paid off. My skeeter has north of 70K invested in it. My ’98 alumacraft I bought for 5K and updated the motor since I wanted EFI (had trade value with original motor). Run the same electronics on both boats, as they swap from boat to boat. Point is, I have as much fun fishing out of the 5K boat versus the 70K boat. Long as the layout is correct a rig can pretty much last you a lifetime. Most likely, these 2 are my last boats. If you have to start small, pay it off and leverage it into your next boat purchase – all the while having a savings plan targeted to your next rig. It will take some time, but it’s a great feeling to eventually have your dream rig, especially once it’s paid off. Unfortunately, the boat shows attract many looking for immediate gratification, hence the dude getting caught up in a 20-30 year loan — eeek!

But you get a $2000 boat show discount
You would never know it but people have money and pay cash for those boats.

But somehow, some way, the new pickups and boats and UTVs and, and, and keep rolling off the lots. New houses keep getting built and bought. I damn sure don’t see any FEWER Americans on planes heading for vacation in sunny spots now versus 25 years ago. Anybody out there planning to spend say half as much on fishing this year as they did last year? No? So if we’re all so damn poor, who’s buying all this stuff?

No question. I always buy used with cash and fix what is needed and when I sell I at least get my money back. With moving to FL, I started selling all the boats, wheel house, tractor, etc. They are selling as fast as I can list them. I’m listing them for what I’m seeing out there as market value. Plenty of people with plenty of money (or at least credit). Who knew?

I’m going to stick out in Florida at the marina. My little 18′ john boat with a mud motor mixed in with all those big off shore boats. But I’ll be able to get into the tidal flats and mangrove swamps nice and easy.

If you think boats are expensive in the Midwest go take a look at some of the salt water rigs.

FinnyDinDin wrote:

If you think boats are expensive in the Midwest go take a look at some of the salt water rigs.

Right, flat out scary. More importantly, unobtainable. I asked my guide buddy who runs a Calcutta 263 Catamaran how these guys who run half million to million dollar boats for charters can justify it and recoup their costs. He said they don’t. Most of them are tourney guys and need the big wins and charters to cover costs. Hell, even a Calcutta 263 base price is mid 100’s for the hull.

…and then you hang 4 $80k engines on it – because why not?

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Baitwaster wrote:

…and then you hang 4 $80k engines on it – because why not?

Or 6…

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A 20 year loan isn’t bad if you can pay it off early that is what traps people. Can you imagine a 20 year loan with 5K down on a 80K boat lol. I am trying to plan for huge a down payment on my next boat which I cannot wait for lol.

I guess that way if one goes down, you can still limp it back in…

A good chance of why some are making many purchases the tremendous rise in the third quarter of 2023 is astounding. .

Credit card debt, the amount owed by all Americans on their credit cards, rose to a record $1.13 trillion at the end of last year, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York reported Tuesday.

Card balances increased by about $50 billion, or 4.6%, in the fourth quarter of 2023.

According to the New York Fed’s Quarterly Report on Household Debt and Credit, total household debt in the United States grew by $228 billion in the third quarter of 2023, to reach an all-time high of $17.3 trillion, at least in nominal terms.