Right or wrong, “feds” or no “feds”…it’s the law.
To the folks that condone breaking the law….well, we will have to agree to disagree. 
Hmm, I read that the law was in place back in 1968. Is that correct? It was the law but was not enforced.
It was still law so from 1968 until the present you were breaking the law!
URL is probably the best example of good intentions gone bad when it comes to these silly regs.
Once again, common sense is no longer common and I for one support the right to hire an uncertified guide especially when they are probably some of the most qualified when it comes to the “important stuff”.
Obviously it is in every guide’s best interest to take the classes and get the proper documentation, but when you are forcing some great guides in the state out of business because of some red tape it bothers me.
Liability Insurance? Yes
First aid training? Yes
Safety Equipment? Yes
Barge Horns on URL? 
Understanding Tug boat lingo on Rainy Lake?
Calculating your latitude and longitude position on Vermilion?
Spreading miss information in the newspaper or on websites isn’t helping matters.
I look at it as a part of doing business. I still look at it as doing what’s best for my customers. Knowing what 5 blasts from a barge tow’s horn means might just help me and my clients. There are items to learn for the test that are not needed for our local waters…but I’ve seldom complain about too much information.
No license needed to sell way points. Hotspot Maps does this all the time. Selling a parking lot seminar doesn’t require a license either. Taking a person out in your boat fishing afterwards will get the instructor a ticket and the court decide that out come. That was covered in the same article by Mr. Anderson as Dtro’s quote.
URL? I can only speak of my area of guiding.
I dont recall the U.S.C.G. “shutting down” anyone. None of these guides have been “shut down” they have just been told they cannot guide on Federal Navigable waters. There are still plenty of lakes with great fishing that these guides can guide on.
If a guide is passionate and dedicated about being a guide they will for no reason hesitate to get the license as the license is “THE LAW” as it was so greatfully stated in one other C.G. post DEAL WITH IT
I suppose it is easier to moan and complain on-line than to call your local congressman and actually try to do something about it, until then it is what it is and it is not going to change 
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Or, if you don’t like the law, work to have it changed.
-J.
Exactly!
Actually it’s in the process. Mn Rep Oberstar in Washington has been contacted and supposedly he wants to set-up a meeting with guides back here in
Minnesota…
Griz is working with a tutor as we speak and will attempt the test again soon.
Go Griz!
I have no dog in this fight and never will and whether or not somebody got the azz at somebody else for not having the license and knocking them off the water doesn’t mean squat to me. But what raises my hackles is the fact that this law has been in effect since ’68 and the CC has never enforced it till lately. If they had done their job from day one this discussion wouldn’t even be happening.
If you dug deep enough you could probably come up with hundreds of ‘laws’ that are never enforced until you are in that most awkward moment.
So cudos to the CC and at the same time give em 20 lashes.
That’s my biggest issue with this Herb. Lots of laws on the books that are rarely enforced.
This whole thing reeks of the almighty dollar.
Someone somewhere isn’t getting enough of it. Whether that be a guide that is getting competition from another unlicensed guide and followed through with the USCG, or someone maybe who teaches the classes, or maybe even the CG who will be issuing fines.
You can say it’s for safety’s sake and whatever blah blah blah. I guess they haven’t cared about those thing for the past 40 years then huh?
I find it VERY HARD to believe that just one day out of the blue they decide to start enforcing a law that they been lax on for the past 40 years. It just doesn’t add up.
There was some pressure here, not sure from where, whom, or why. But there is something here we are all missing.
Nothing wrong with having an opinion. I have no dog in this show and my life will change in absolutely no way, but I truly feel bad for the lifelong guides that are being treated so rudely. How about a grace period to get caught up or even a Grandfather clause? Nope, we’ll just scour the internet and randomly call em up and say, “Don’t be on the water tomorrow”
Sometimes the Govt and their overwhelming regulations and outright nonsense is just too much to take.
I would say congratulations to whomever got the ball rolling on this one.
err, I meant CG not CC.
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I suppose it is easier to moan and complain on-line than to call your local congressman and actually try to do something about it, until then it is what it is and it is not going to change
Having a opinion that opposes someone elses viewpoint is not moaning and complaining. And yes I contact elected officials often, when their phone lines are not down or their mailboxes full!
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You can say it’s for safety’s sake and whatever blah blah blah. I guess they haven’t cared about those thing for the past 40 years then huh?
The big push on this came on the heels of the 911 attacks. I would assume someone at the federal level saw port security as a potential issue so they dished out orders to tighten security by getting everyone conducting business on federal waterways licensed and issued Transportation Worker Identification Credential (TWIC) cards.
Now what port security has to do with fishing guides on the Mississippi River is anyone’s guess. But I’m sure “everyone” means…. everyone. No thought was given to exclusions.
I am a big believer in the old saying… be careful what you ask for. In this instance… make the coast guard OUPV license requirement go away and the state / fed will just institute a new set of rules and licensing requirements designed ever so specifically for a guide’s circumstances. Once a government agency has had you under their thumb… they grow accustom to the control. Get rid of this requirement and I’ll give you odds that the replacement guidelines will be more expensive and a bigger hassle.
I was in the class and am one that didn’t pass. I got 4 wrong out of 30, you needed 90% to pass. There was 5 different tests with about 140 questions total. The instuctor talked to me after he corrected my test and I answered the 4 wrong correct when he taled to me. I don’t know why I got them wrong except that I marked the answer wrong on the test. The course is designed for 100 ton vessel not our fishing boats. Most of us are retaking the test Tuesday 12/1. If we don’t pass we have to take the course over. I agree that all guides should be licensed but in my opinion this course is over kill. This being enforced now because there is a new guy in the Twin Cities area and he is enforcing it. He came to our class on Friday and talked to us for 2 hours. He said that there was a memo or some thing that came from Homeland Security to take action on this. He also said that most guides could get a limited license to guide in certain pools. Gary our Instructor argued that this was not allowed and had documentation to prove it. I know that senators and congressmen have been contacted about this, let’s see how it works out. The coast guard guy did say that they were looking into enforcing other waters the same way.
“He also said that most guides could get a limited license to guide in certain pools. Gary our instructor argued that this was not allowed and had documentation to prove it.”
Sounds a lot like the people from FEMA last year in SE IA. after the flood. You talk to one person and they said this is how it is, and you turn around to talk to the one sitting behind you and they say no, this is the way it is.
To me this just shouts that nobody knows what the heck they are doing.
Maybe this is the way gubberment is supposed to work, eh?
How many guides are being affected by this law? Approximately. Just curious. Does this mean that they are thinking about making this the law for ALL public waters or just certain named bodies of water? 
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There are five test taken at the time of testing. The longest test is less than 20 questions and one test is 5 questions long.
If a person fails one or all of the above tests, they can take the test(s) they fail over again up to two more times.
When I asked the instructor how many people have failed all three times they could take the test he said “none”. Maybe this will change now?
I’m still not gonna call you “Captain”
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How many guides are being affected by this law? Approximately. Just curious.
I’d like to know as well, I dont think it’s just MN/WI
The only problem I have with it is they come in after all these years and effectively shut down a guys livelihood for the better part of a season. You can argue it both ways, but I think the decent thing to do would have been to wait until the end of a season where it wouldn’t hurt a fulltime guide. They waited 40 years or whatever to enforce it, they couldn’t have waited another 6 months?
Oberstar article
Surprised he is taking time away from getting more pet projects for his district.
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According to Division Vice-Commander of the USCG Auxiliary Bill Williams, the Guard developed and announced the plan to enforce the old licensing requirement only after a fatal boating accident involving a commercial fishing guide boat on Lake Texoma March 28 of this year.
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The only problem I have with it is they come in after all these years and effectively shut down a guys livelihood for the better part of a season. You can argue it both ways, but I think the decent thing to do would have been to wait until the end of a season where it wouldn’t hurt a fulltime guide. They waited 40 years or whatever to enforce it, they couldn’t have waited another 6 months?
The first in a series of warnings regarding impending enforcement was issued years ago. 6 to be exact if my memory serves. Dustin, Jarrad, Greg and I didn’t take the course and jump through the hoops because we suddenly felt the urge to spend 56 hours in a classroom together. There is not a single guide on the river that has not known about this for YEARS. Some chose to address it right away and put it behind them. Others pulled an ostrich, buried their head in the sand and hoped it would go away. Well, that’s a lion gnawing on your butt their big bird!
You can argue for or against these regulations but anyone that attempts to play this off like it just came out of the blue without warning and their livelihood is being affected “because they weren’t given enough warning” is filling you full of it.
Amen to that, James.
Not that everyone in the world was reading IDO, but if they did…. 
http://www.idofishing.com/forum/showflat.php/Number/159841/93/fpart/all
http://www.idofishing.com/forum/showflat.php/Number/231386/93/fpart/all
http://www.idofishing.com/forum/showflat.php/Number/231519/93/fpart/all
That and more, just do a site search on “Cost Guard”
-J.
Why don’t one of the guides that are not negative about this try to get an interview with a sports writer and get thier side out to “Joe Public”?
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Why don’t one of the guides that are not negative about this try to get an interview with a sports writer and get thier side out to “Joe Public”?
Dennis Anderson… 
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According to Division Vice-Commander of the USCG Auxiliary Bill Williams, the Guard developed and announced the plan to enforce the old licensing requirement only after a fatal boating accident involving a commercial fishing guide boat on Lake Texoma March 28 of this year.
Again I ask…If this is indeed the case…isn’t there a lot more boating deaths and injuries inflicted by the hands of “Captains” driving “Tuna Boats” irresponsibly? Are there not more devastating accidents every year due to inexperince and or alcohol related boating activities?? All you have to do is have money, a big boat and a bunch of drunken friends and go out on the River for a weekend in a huge boat without a Captain’s license. Who has more potential for a serious mishap on the water? A “Tuna Boat Captain” or a Guide? 
And a TWIC card? Now that it is known that guides are targeted…is it not easier for illegals to come over borders in the guise of pleasure boaters??
How about non-CG approved guides get together and file a descrimination suit against the CG and the Federal Govt? Why do “Tuna Boat” captains get a free ride?
Cuz they got the money!!
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How about non-CG approved guides get together and file a descrimination suit against the CG and the Federal Govt?
Wouldn’t it be much wiser to spend the time, effort and financial resources to just pass the test and get licensed? If I were a licensed guide I would be glad to see my efforts being rewarded for getting licensed per the law and wouldn’t be too disappointed that big brother is eliminating my business competition until they get compliant (if they ever do).
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How about non-CG approved guides get together and file a descrimination suit against the CG and the Federal Govt?
Wouldn’t it be much wiser to spend the time, effort and financial resources to just pass the test and get licensed? If I were a licensed guide I would be glad to see my efforts being rewarded for getting licensed per the law and wouldn’t be too disappointed that big brother is eliminating my business competition until they get compliant (if they ever do).
So it’s OK for a group to be descriminated against and its better to fall in line with the rest of the lemmings? No offense to all the guys and gals who have decided to go that route. I just believe that it is not fair for the Federal Govt. to be able to pick and choose what laws to enforce and who they will enforce them against.
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Why don’t one of the guides that are not negative about this try to get an interview with a sports writer and get thier side out to “Joe Public”?
I have a feeling they are too busy guiding clients on navigatable waters to waste time on such silly matters. Judging by the responses and attitudes of guides who hold a license and those that don’t it’s a no brainer who would get my $$.
You aren’t getting my point…and that’s fine. 
My point isn’t who get’s the guide business. My point is that this is just another incident of government interference in your/my life, and it is pinpointing a specific group of people…which in most cases is illegal.
What would be the difference if the CG said a specific race needed to be licensed to operate on the River? Would there be an outcry then?
I don’t see the discrimination…the law is the same for everyone whether it be the Griz, Holst, Stewart or whoever, you must have the license. I’m not saying the law isn’t a little silly for the purpose of our inland waterways however if it really bothers someone they can always lobby to change the law.
The same licensing requirements are in place for “Tuna Boats” as there is for a fishing guide? Hmmmmm…. I missed that. I guess if that is the case, you are correct and I am wrong.
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My point is that this is just another incident of government interference in your/my life, and it is pinpointing a specific group of people…which in most cases is illegal.
What would be the difference if the CG said a specific race needed to be licensed to operate on the River? Would there be an outcry then?
Come’on Chris its only illegal to target based on ethinicity, race, sex, age and the like. We do agree it is another place the Fed’s are sticking there noses where it doesn’t belong but I don’t see them discriminating in doing it. I personally don’t think the law is necessary but until the law is repealed people have to follow the law unless they want to deal with the consequences of getting caught. If this was discrimination the courts would be filled with teenagers looking to get drivers license requirement laws repealed.
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The same licensing requirements are in place for “Tuna Boats” as there is for a fishing guide? Hmmmmm…. I missed that. I guess if that is the case, you are correct and I am wrong.
Actually if the “tuna boat” operators are taking out people for payment than yes the law pertains to them also. Such as “party barge” operators are required to be licensed and hopefully will be targeted also if they target the guides. Your right I was missing this point and agree enforce it for anyone being paid as the law states. But i would really like to see the law repealed for our inland waters and the Coast Guard’s time/energy to be focused on a worthwhile cause.
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