Go Pack Go!

Michael C. Winther wrote:

part of why they’re the youngest team in football is the lingering effects of Aaron Rodgers contract…they have $60M is dead cap hit this year and $40M of that is from Aaron Rodgers alone.

he’s off the books next year and even without other moves they’ll have $35M in free space. then there are two really big contract question marks for next year in Aaron Jones and David Bahktiari. Jones will be $17M against the cap, i expect they’ll keep him one more year as cutting him would only reduce it to $12M. after 2024 (and age 30) he will either sign a much reduced contract or be out. Bahktiari will bring a massive $40M hit in 2024, and even if he doesn’t retire he’s not worth that any more with all of the injuries. releasing him would reduce the hit by $20M, so i don’t see him playing another down for the Packers.

long-short: in 2024 they will have both great draft pick assets and more available money for free agency than they’ve had in years. 2023 is completely about player assessment and getting some new players experience. 2024 will be about team-building. with or without Love at the helm, i see 2025 as the first real window for being competitive again.

Spot on with your assessment. Still not sure MLF is HC material. I know this team is young, but it is not without some talent, and right now I’m not seeing much to cheer about going forward. The whole team looks in disarray which is on the HC. MLF was brought in to work with Rodgers, now that Rodgers is gone and the team looks so dysfunctional, wonder if a new HC might not be a bad idea. Agree we are building for 2025, even though many don’t want to admit it. So if there are questions on the HC, now might be the time to look for a new HC. The team has looked soft for the past couple of years, and that is also on the HC.

Rodgers was on during the Manning boys MNF broadcast and one of them commented about him being a HC after he retires… he said probably not and then they said but I seen you with the Packers and you were like a HC with the guys and Rodgers said, “that’s cause I was the old guy… I was older than all the other players.. heck I was older than the coaches” It’s kind of funny, but when Rodgers was a Packer, I hated every fiber of him.. now I kind of like the guy… especially after him calling Kelce “phizer”

well from what I seen against the queens, Love needs to be set down, he’s had 3 years of riding the pine and hasn’t learned a damn thing, he has no emotions, doesn’t play with any fire, all his long passes are rainbows, I would like to see what the backup QB can do, the season shot to hell so why not? after the season there should be a house cleaning of the coaching staff, some if not all need to be shown the door. the GM should join them in my opinion

Beast wrote:

well from what I seen against the queens, Love needs to be set down, he’s had 3 years of riding the pine and hasn’t learned a damn thing, he has no emotions, doesn’t play with any fire, all his long passes are rainbows, I would like to see what the backup QB can do, the season shot to hell so why not? after the season there should be a house cleaning of the coaching staff, some if not all need to be shown the door. the GM should join them in my opinion

Finally I can agree with you James! The defense will have to carry both teams…….

I’m ashamed to have watched 3 pecker games and Love is one if the worst QB’s I have ever watched and I have watched way too much!

Jordan Love’s passer rating is better than Peyton Manning’s rookie year. the Colts went 3-13 that season. now, i’m not saying he’s Peyton Manning (who got to that rating with much, much higher numbers), just that it’s still very early. Love has only played 8 hours of live professional football. ultimately if he ends up being Heath Shuler, okay, but it needs to play out.

Michael C. Winther wrote:

Jordan Love’s passer rating is better than Peyton Manning’s rookie year. the Colts went 3-13 that season.

Manning started right away out of college as the top pick in the draft. He was thrown right into the fire.

Love has had years of training, watching, and observing on the sidelines now behind Rodgers. Its not like he was just tossed to into the lion’s den here without any preparation right out of college. Generally speaking, rookie quarterbacks that spend at least one season as a backup under a veteran perform a lot better when they’re given a chance to be the starter. Love has had time to do that and is still one of the worst in the entire league.

gimruis wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Michael C. Winther wrote:</div>
Jordan Love’s passer rating is better than Peyton Manning’s rookie year. the Colts went 3-13 that season.

Manning started right away out of college as the top pick in the draft. He was thrown right into the fire.

Love has had years of training, watching, and observing on the sidelines now behind Rodgers. Its not like he was just tossed to into the lion’s den here without any preparation right out of college. Generally speaking, rookie quarterbacks that spend at least one season as a backup under a veteran perform a lot better when they’re given a chance to be the starter. Love has had time to do that and is still one of the worst in the entire league.

How long did Rodgers wait on the sidelines before he replaced Favre?

AK Guy wrote:

How long did Rodgers wait on the sidelines before he replaced Favre?

Definitely at least 2 seasons. Maybe more.

Yesterday made pretty clear what the problem is in GB, and it’s Matt Lafleur. Love and the whole team looked woefully unprepared and undisciplined. He’s supposed to be an offensive HC and they didn’t have a single FIRST down until near halftime. 11 penalties, mainly on the offense. No real identity on offense, and Jordan Love has regressed throughout the season. Need a new HC and healthy OL to see if Love can be the guy or not.

Way more going on with this team then just Love. Trainwreck, undisciplined are a couple words that pop in my head. I am not giving up on Love yet, but he isn’t helping himself.
No O-Line blocking, NO running game, penalties, bad play calling, its a combination of issues with this team.
Also, what happened to our punt/kick return game from last year? Add that to my issues list above.

I’m kind of in the same camp as BigWerm.

I am the last guy to usually say “fire the coach” as someone who has coached varsity football and empathizes with playing the hand your dealt, but this is different. These guys are paid millions to perform not nickels. I can live with being outgunned or dealing with a roster that doesn’t have talent. The Packers roster on offense is far from average with regards to raw talent, but that doesn’t serve as an excuse for the penalties. Lafleur’s lack of leadership is making Rodgers look retroactively better with each passing week.

IMO the lack of a true one person owner creates a delayed system of accountability. The model works great when the going is good, but it takes forever for people to realize issues are compounding and change is needed.

Love is going to get the 2024-2025 season too. That is a foregone conclusion with the contract. As a fan, I just hope they have some consistency on the OL and a little more health in the key position groups to fairly evaluate him. Right now, I’m sticking to my original guess from day 1 in that his ceiling is limited. He reminds me of a young Ryan Tannehill. Probably good enough to start on below average NFL teams, but not a guy who is going to be a perennial playoff QB without a loaded roster around him.

If Love is deemed to not be the answer AFTER next season, the front office needs to be held accountable as well. They rolled the dice on Love despite having a SB ready roster and bolstering it to make a run at winning it all again with Rodgers. Those responsible should be required to live by that decision for better or worse.

Definitely Love hasn’t shown yet he can be a winning QB, but not sure all the blame is on him either. When he hits the receiver with an accurate throw and he drops the pass, is that Love’s fault? Saw in the game yesterday Jones wide open in the flat that could have resulted in a nice gain, only to see Love throw it into the end zone where the receiver was double covered. Now is that a reflection on Love not being able to read coverage, or bad coaching? How many open receivers have we seen this year? It seems like there is always a defender on them, not many wide open receivers that I have seen. I thought that MLF was supposed to be this genius play caller, but I haven’t seen much of it the past couple of years.

last years offensive line coach is this years offensive coordinator, offensive line went to hell and so did the rest of the offense, defensive coordinator has a dumpster fire ever since they hired him, he was a loser every where he’s been and his defense has always been ranked at the bottom. now I didn’t expect Love to be a QB that sets the world on fire his first year, but I expected him to show more than he has, he looks like the game is to big for him to handle. the GM will die with him because he doesn’t want to admit he failed after Farve and Rodgers were QB’s of choice by the 2 earlier GMs. I say put Lafere on a short lease and clean house, the team does have talent but they need direction,

Ouch! So much for winning out.

Love is not the long term answer in GB. He will be done after next year.

Love’s touchdown to Reed yesterday was the best throw i’ve seen him make. timing, placement, everything. the touchdown to Doubs was a nice, easy play.

Love’s incomplete to end the game was one of the worst throws i’ve seen him make. that ball has got to at least make it to the endzone.

the big completions he made to WRs were to guys that had no defender within 5 yards. no need for anticipation of coverage and route on those. his two long completions to Musgrave were both throws where Musgrave turned around backwards to catch it (although he seems to like doing so).

i did think the coaching staff made a effort in play-calling (and i assume practice) to get the ball out of his hands more quickly. he outplayed Pickett, but i don’t know that this is saying much when you still lose the game to a bad Steelers team. consolation prize: we’re not the Giants!

Michael C. Winther wrote:

bad Steelers team.

Not sure I’d call the Steelers “a bad team” given they were 5-3 going into yesterday’s game. I’d definitely put them a notch above the bad teams in the league, especially given that they have also beat the Ravens who until yesterday had only lost 2 games.

The Giants are bad. The Bears are bad. Carolina is bad. The Steelers are definitely not in the same conversation as those teams.

gimruis wrote:

The Giants are bad. The Bears are bad. Carolina is bad. The Steelers are definitely not in the same conversation as those teams.

i know, i know, “you are what your record says you are.”
mostly. (cf 2022 Vikings)

defense keeps you in games, and the Steelers defense is passable, with a very good defensive line. but their offense is bad. they’ve only scored more than 23 points in one game all season. squeeking by against the Packers is not a good indication. and the Pack would have been able to tie the game with a FG had Deguara made any effort whatsoever to block on an earlier extra point.

The Packers are in a unique spot. Their next 3 games are against teams that are better than they are (Chargers, Lions, Chiefs).

I am a firm believer that NFL teams cannot “tank” per se with regard to effort and game planning, but one does have to begin to look at the big picture and question what incentive there is to race back their ever-growing list of injured players.

If they go 0-3 over that stretch and get to 3-9 they’d have a realistic shot of getting to the top 5-6 spots in the upcoming draft. Clearly trotting Jordan Love out with roughly the same squad isn’t a viable strategy. It’s going to take a tear down to be relevant again.

I think the Lions are in for a fight at home for the next two weeks. Overlooking division opponents would be a big mistake. The Thanksgiving Game vs. the Pack should be a good one.

buckybadger wrote:

It’s going to take a tear down to be relevant again.

this IS a tear-down. it just won’t be obvious until next year when they get all of the cap relief and a crap-ton of draft picks. losing this year (even if they’re not “tanking”) definitely helps that process while also helping them make decisions about Love’s future.

Bass Pundit wrote:

The Thanksgiving Game vs. the Pack should be a good one.

I think it will be a blow out. They played a month ago on a Thursday night in Green Bay and the kitties won big. I think they were ahead 27-0 at the half and there were boo birds at Lambeau.

The Packers certainly haven’t gotten any better, and the Lions haven’t gotten worse. I’ll go 31-10 Lions in an embarrassment on national TV.

gimruis wrote:

The Packers certainly haven’t gotten any better, and the Lions haven’t gotten worse. I’ll go 31-10 Lions in an embarrassment on national TV.

with no linebackers to speak of on the Packers defense, anyone with David Montgomery or Jahmyr Gibbs in fantasy is going to be eating a lot of turkey.

Michael C. Winther wrote:

with no linebackers to speak of on the Packers defense, anyone with David Montgomery or Jahmyr Gibbs in fantasy is going to be eating a lot of turkey.

LOL good one. Might as well “stuff” yourself when you can huh

Michael C. Winther wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>buckybadger wrote:</div>
It’s going to take a tear down to be relevant again.

this IS a tear-down. it just won’t be obvious until next year when they get all of the cap relief and a crap-ton of draft picks. losing this year (even if they’re not “tanking”) definitely helps that process while also helping them make decisions about Love’s future.

As far as the cap goes, they will have more money available, unfortunately it won’t be until 2025 that they really have the cap space needed to sign any good FA. Bahk counts 40M against the cap next year himself, and so far he hasn’t done anything to help the Pack with cap relief. The Pack have an extra 2nd and 3rd round pick and should get some extra compensatory picks, but they have a lot of needs on the team to fill. Wouldn’t surprise me that their first round pick could be another QB.

Tlazer wrote:

Bahk counts 40M against the cap next year himself, and so far he hasn’t done anything to help the Pack with cap relief.

I wouldn’t expect him to either, even if he wants to keep playing and they cut him, I believe that $40M is only offset by what he signs for elsewhere. Which disincentivizes him from maxing out as a FA, since he’s getting $40M regardless.

BigWerm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Tlazer wrote:</div>
Bahk counts 40M against the cap next year himself, and so far he hasn’t done anything to help the Pack with cap relief.

I wouldn’t expect him to either, even if he wants to keep playing and they cut him, I believe that $40M is only offset by what he signs for elsewhere. Which disincentivizes him from maxing out as a FA, since he’s getting $40M regardless.

Even if he is cut/traded, I believe the Packers are on the books for about $20 million of that figure next season? It’s better than $40 million…but dead money sure hurts when attempting a rebuild. I fully expect them to cut their ties with him and see him in a Jets jersey next season. The Packers will go with the best OT available towards the top of the draft when they select (somewhere inside the top 10).

It is definitely a tear-down, but it’s not fully implemented yet. Aaron Jones is a good player (and paid accordingly) who doesn’t really push the needle to make this team relevant. Cutting him loose would be the next step towards truly starting over. Kenny Clark is another “good” player whose timeline really doesn’t fit our teardown that is needed. Moving him for cap relief of any sort makes sense too.

Realistically they will evaluate Love for another year. My fear is that he plays in a similar way to what he has thus far (not the worst QB in the league considering he has minimal weapons, but far from a franchise guy). I think he is a low tier starter or a very good backup. He might fit if you have a loaded roster, but the Packers don’t. I foresee them moving on from him in 2025 and jumping on the QB carousel again.

buckybadger wrote:

Even if he is cut/traded, I believe the Packers are on the books for about $20 million of that figure next season? It’s better than $40 million…but dead money sure hurts when attempting a rebuild.

Close enough, I think, the cap is so complicated I don’t think it’s actually real or anyone really understands it.

http://www.overthecap.com/player/david-bakhtiari/2377

buckybadger wrote:

It is definitely a tear-down, but it’s not fully implemented yet….I foresee them moving on from him in 2025 and jumping on the QB carousel again.

I think that would make the most sense at this point. Release/cut all the expensive vets, let Love run it back next year, use the 2024 draft for solidifying OL/DL or other need areas, bottom out and draft near the top of 2025 for your QB with the Coach/GM you want moving forward. And hope you don’t wind up in the Bears or Packers pre-Favre Era where you continually circle the drain. Worst thing is the GM/Coach/QB carousel the Bears have been in, the Front office, HC and new QB need to be on a similar schedule.

Steven Krapfl wrote:

Gotta say I was a little nervous about this opener, but wow, Love is looking fire and our defense is doing things. Sorry Bears’ fans, looks like it might be another rough year.

B-man wrote:

I’m Lovin it

Beast wrote:

I LOVEd it, It was a great start but it’s a long season.

wirivereyes wrote:

Love is not the long term answer in GB. He will be done after next year.

Michael C. Winther wrote:

Jordan Love’s passer rating is better than Peyton Manning’s rookie year. the Colts went 3-13 that season.

sure is a fun read to go from page 1 to page 4 on this thread and see how the tone changes throughout. after a game or 2 in september, people were ready to put Love right next to Favre and Rodgers on the Packers mount rushmore LOL

Gitchi Gummi wrote:

Love right next to Favre and Rodgers on the Packers mount rushmore LOL

I had so many friends of mine who are also Packer fans start talking like hes the next great thing and I would just say pump the breaks. I hope I’m wrong but I’ve seen enough of him and hope they move on. He stares down one receiver all the time and most of his touchdown throws are to guys who get some distance between them and the defender.

Gutey needs to go as the GM and for him saying its not a rebuilding year is just laughable when you have the leagues youngest team.