Shotgun fitting

I’m thinking of finally getting a decent upland bird gun, although I’m still undecided between O/U or semi-auto, (maybe one of each?!), and guage. The question I have for the more experienced shotgunners on this site is the relative importance of getting fitted for a new gun, particularly cast and drop, but also length of pull and pitch. I’m left-handed so particularly sensitive to cast. I’ve read about the target patterning you should do first, but not sure I’m comfortable about making the necessary shim adjustments. Do the large gun retailers like Gander or Cabelas do fitting? Local gun shop guys? I guess some new guns come with shim kits and most do not. Opinions, suggestions and recommendations welcome!

Relatively speaking, fit is almost everything when it comes to a shotgun. Assuming the gun goes bang when the trigger is pulled, the next priority is that it’s pointing in the right spot when it does go bang. Which, of course, is largely determined by fit. Everything beyond that is just a minor detail.

There is tremendous variation in the standard dimensions of shotguns. This makes it harder because you want the feel to be there and the fit to fine tune, but of course this requires that you find the gun in a dealer’s stock so that you can see how close close is.

Over time, some of the manufacturers have made it easier to at least tweak the fit by offering various combinations of stock shims and butt plates/spacers/pads to adjust drop at comb (DOC) and length of pull (LOP). I believe some systems can also adjust cast.

I believe Gander and Cabelas outsource their gunsmithing. Even if they offered this service, I would be concerned about the qualifications of the person doing the measuring! Do they really know what they are doing?

Personally, I’d only trust a real gunsmith with a face to face interaction and that would be a place like Ahlmans.

Here’s what I’d suggest you think about. First, try a LOT of shotguns. I’ve made the mistake several times of thinking I wanted Brand X’s Model Y shotgun only to try it and discover the fit wasn’t even close. In fact, I’ve never bought the new shotgun that I thought I was going to buy when I started looking.

The last time I was looking for a double, for example, I started convinced that I wanted a Beretta and 4 brands later I ended up with a Browning and this was solely because of fit. The combination of LOP and DOC was nearly perfect, I had it tweaked by about an 1/16 inch. I dumped the first 4 roosters I saw with 4 shots. Let’s call it good, then.

So try a lot of shotguns and see how close you can get with a box-stock gun as far as a gun you really like and like the feel of, are confident of the function, etc. Then from there, what are the maker’s options for tweaking the fit? Use them and see how much (if any) you can fruther dial it in.

Then from there, when you’re confident you have a shotgun that you like the feel of and that the fit is as close as you can make it, that’s where I’d go to professional fitting.

Everything else is just personal preference, but I can’t resist sharing mine:

– Sub-gauges are just such a joy. I only own a 12 because I have to, but I hate carrying the nasty, oversized fat kid. What I WANT to carry every day is a 20 or a 16. In fact, my 20 gauges don’t even get carried, they seem to float along in my hands, unemcumbered by gravity.

Don’t think for a second that a 20 is not enough gun for upland use, the reality is that the clothes don’t make the man and the gauge doesn’t make the shot. Don’t discount the 16 either, they are a pure joy.

In fact, not to be judgemental, but we even have weirdos on this forum that carry and actually hit birds with a 28 gauge. Yes! Such an animal exists, I swear it.

– Modern gas autos are really a joy to shoot. When it comes to comfort, I LOVE the modern gas-operated autos. A 20 gauge Beretta has so little recoil that it is close to none. I like to look at doubles, but I like to SHOOT my Beretta 390 best of all.

Good luck.

Grouse

Look around at your local clubs, preferably high end clubs. That’s where you’ll probably find a club pro that can help you or find the person who can. Proper fitting is done outside while you are shooting on a patterning board and done with a “try gun” this type of shooter has a fully adjustable stock so you can get all the measurements before you start wacking up your new shotgun. Mount and shoot is very dependent on a proper fitting shotgun.

Make sure to check out a benelli M2 with comfortech. It comes with a set of bushings and you can buy a longer or shorter recoil pad that is easily changed. I changed bushings for a perfect fit.The standard recoil pad that came with the gun is OK for me wearing lite clothing but I need the short pad when dressed for cold weather. Nice to be able to get a custom fit without making permanent irreversible modifications. This gun is popular for three gun and tactical setups so there are tons of aftermarket options. If you can, shoot whatever you are interested in before you buy. Good luck and have fun.

Browning A5’s come with several spacers that fit between the receiver/stock and two extra recoil pad spacers. It’s very easy to change the drop, cast and pull. No need for a gunsmith. My A5 fit’s me like a Red Label due to these spacers.

I set it up with more drop, cast out (right handed) and the thickest pad spacer. I can now look at a point across the room, shoulder the A5 and the sight picture is perfect. When I close one eye the beads are perfectly superimposed on the target. So I know that I don’t have to aim, just look at the target.

I set that up while wearing a T-shirt. So I put the next thinner butt pad spacer in so when I wear a cold weather hunting coat it will be perfect.

Fit is everything. I bought a nice Remington o/u when i used to have pointers. We hunted a lot, both Illinois and Iowa for pheasants and Quail. Wed shoot the occassional Hun too. Some years took me to South Dakota. Most took me to the U.P. for partridge (grouse) and woodcock. Anyways, sorry down memory lane I went. I really like my o/us, yes multiple now. Different gauges and barrel lengths. BUT….then I bought a Winchester SX3 for waterfowl hunting and I am hooked. It shoots so softly matter not what load I have in it. What a pleasure!

Sage advice, very helpful and much appreciated. I never gave much thought to trying a gun, so will definitely look into that. I guess I’m leaning toward a gas semi-auto because of the reduced recoil, and perhaps lighter to carry than a O/U(?). One of the challenges with that style though is finding a LH version. Except for my beloved Marlin 30-30 lever, I refuse to shoot a RH gun. I am intrigued with 16-gauge. Is ammo readily available for that? Bottom line for me is I want to be the best shooter I can in the field. I missed a layup on a rooster last fall and don’t want that to ever happen again. When I do find the right long gun, we will be spending lots of time together near the trap house as well.
Thanks again for the great gun suggestions.

O/U versus Auto loader is more of a personal preference. I really enjoy hunting grouse and use an Auto because I like being able to have more shells at the ready. Not to say that people dont hunt grouse or upland with O/Us. I know people that do and are very successful. For fit if you are leaning towards a model without adjustments in the buttplate and cheek piece make sure to hold the gun down and close your eyes, Mount the gun and when you think you have it where you want it and open your eyes. If the sight picture is off put the gun down. If the sight picture is perfect or close to perfect you may have a winner.

There are some very lightweight doubles out there. My Browning 725 Super in 20 gauge weighs 5.95 pounds with 26 inch tubes. That is actual weight on my own shipping scale.

The tradeoff is that O/U do, in fact, kick harder. There’s no way around it. This bothers some people. In my case, I never notice it because I rarely target shoot with an o/u so when bird hunting it’d be a fine, fine day were I to be lucky enough to shoot enough shells that recoil was truely starting to bother me.

Rumors of 16 gauge ammo being hard to find are greatly exaggerated. It’s always available at Cabelas, Fleet, and Gander. Regardless of gauge, I’m fussy about bird hunting ammo so I never leave this to chance. As soon as I’m down to my last 2 boxes, I order up another case from Ables Ammo, who have excellent prices and selection BTW.

A 20 gauge firing 3 inch mags is a potent phesant gun, don’t let anyone tell you differently. It is also not unpleasant to shoot in a gas auto. My Beretta weighs 6.5 pounds which granted is not super-super light in today’s world, but it certainly is still a joy to carry and to shoot.

Nice Fella wrote:

. I missed a layup on a rooster last fall and don’t want that to ever happen again.

Well, if you figure out how to make sure this never happens to you again, be sure to let me know. I’ll have what you’re having.

My personal observation is that the chances of my missing a layup shot are directly proportional to how many other hunters happen to be watching at the time.

It will come as no surprise that of the 2 perfect doubles that I have executed while pheasant hunting, only one of them was witnessed and only by 1 other person. The other was only witnessed by a dog, who, of course, stubbornly refused to corroborate my story under questioning.

Grouse

Sounds like you should checkout the M2. Available in LH and shims galore to adjust drop and cast.

For LOP ballpark, shoulder the gun and you should have 2-3 fingers width between your nose and thumb. This is personal preference but will get you close. I believe LOP is largely related to your gun mount and stance, more so than length of arms/height/etc etc. If you’re have a very aggressive shooting stance leaning forward into your gun you’ll have a longer LOP than if you’re more squared up to the target. Remember with most guns (depending on the butt pad) you can adjust the LOP cheap by adding washers between the stock and pad until you think it’s right. Once you’re sure, buy a spacer or something permanent etc.

Once LOP is close (or what you think is close) a good ball park way to check cast and drop at comb is to tape a drinking straw on the rib of your gun inline with the barrel. Close your eyes and naturally mount the gun, look down the straw. The idea is to see straight down the straw without seeing any of the insides. Adjust drop and comb until you’re seeing straight through the straw.

See how close you got. Get a big sheet of paper and put in full choke w/ #8 shot. Draw a dot on the paper and stand about ~15 yards away. Just look at the dot on your paper, mount the gun naturally and shoot. Do this a few times and you’ll start to see a POI area punched out.

I’m no gunsmith and I’m sure others will probably disagree with some of what I said, many ways to do it but worth a shot. It’s worked well for me to get stuff close.

If you ever want to get out shooting, let me know. I’ve taken up shotgun sports pretty heavy in the past couple years, getting out a couple times/wk.

Good luck!

Pete

Jeez. It’s amazing that I can hit the broad side of a barn.

Nice Fella, do you know which is your dominate eye?

Did you miss that rooster last year with a left handed gun?

If you’re cross dominate, ie left handed and right eye dominate that can cause problems in shooting sports, but it’s great for batting baseballs with the eye closest to the pitcher being dominate.

Reeds has a big gun sale and you can try them before you buy them. I think it’s sometime in April. But like others say Benelli’s with comfortech stock you can change the length of pull and you can get raised combs for them too.

jwellsy wrote:

Nice Fella, do you know which is your dominate eye?
Did you miss that rooster last year with a left handed gun?

Yes, left eye dominant for sure. And you’re right – I batted RH in baseball and did pretty well, but that’s a story for another day…
The gun I shoot now is the trusty Wingmaster 870 LH pump, with a cylinder bore barrel. I’m looking forward to more choke options.
Reed’s is quite a haul for me, but the Rice Creek Gun Fair you mentioned may almost make it worthwhile: http://ricecreekgunfair.com/

Sometimes I learn so much on this IDO web site that it makes my head hurt.

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

Well, if you figure out how to make sure this never happens to you again, be sure to let me know. I’ll have what you’re having.

My personal observation is that the chances of my missing a layup shot are directly proportional to how many other hunters happen to be watching at the time.

@thefamousgrouse

You’d have better luck with a 12-gauge auto!

If you will own only one shotgun it is hard to beat a 12gauge autoloader with 3″ chamber. The variety and availability of loads is unparalleled. With the proper load and choke it will do anything you want a shotgun to do. If you can own multiple guns then you can enjoy the pleasure of using them for specific applications as you see fit. Although I own two beautiful O/U I don’t use them for pheasant hunting. The extra shells are often used when multiple birds are in the air or you need extra shots to stop a cripple. I’ve emptied the auto on many occasions while blocking the end of a field.

Great information. Not to hijack the original post, but I have a related question. I’m planning on getting my son a 12 gauge Benelli SBE, either the current II model or the newest III model. I see they have them in either a 26″ or 28″ barrel length. Any comments or suggestions about why one would choose a 26″ over a 28″ or vice versa? I plan for this to be his only shotgun for use on everything from pheasant, rabbit, squirrels, ducks, geese, crows, turkeys, coyotes, etc.

About 15 years ago, when I started field hunting Canada geese, I bought myself a Benelli SBE and went with the 26″ barrel because the overall length of the gun was about the same as the Remington 1100 I had been shooting for years. Just curious what people see as the advantage/disadvantage of a 26″ barrel vs. a 28″ barrel.

Thanks,

Boone

The longer barrel always points better.

Boone, choosing one barrel is a trade off no matter which one you go with. For small upland game I’d take the 26″ to get a wider pattern at closer ranges, but longer shots will be less lethal. For waterfowl, turkey and even pheasants I’d take the 28″ or even a 30″ to have greater shot density at longer ranges, however that makes less margin for error on short range shots.

You can compensate either way somewhat with choke tube changes.

I prefer to go with the longer barrel. I can always open that choke up. The shorter barrel can’t be choked down with OEM chokes and get the long range knock down power that the longer one possibly can.