How Can We Keep Our Schools Safe?

smb218 wrote:

So here is a thought. I’m all about the right to bear arms but really come on everybody why are civilians able to go to a store and but a assault rifle. They are made to kill people end of sentence. No civilians should be able to just go get one. Why is it that hard for you all to understand. Some say they made for target practice or that’s what i use them for. Well that what .22’s are for. You don’t see many mass shootings if any done with a .22 but we do see mass shootings with AR 15’s and other types of high caliber assault rifles. Wtf. If you want to get one you should have to wait a few weeks give a blood and urine tests and go through a extensive background check which should be paid for by the purchaser sure you want a assault rifle pay for all these tests and the background check. You pass all of them then have your pretty people killing gun. You want one that bad to go though all the tests and your found that your a stable human not on drugs or have any mental illness then again enjoy your assault rifle. And those who want to use the 2nd amendment bull pretty sure assault rifles were not around when it went into effect. I’m sure you all will bash and have hate replies but whatever. I don’t care if your a up standing citizen or a crazed madmen point is assault rifles should only be for law enforcement or the military common sense people.

The second amendment is for us to protect ourselves from crime AND tyrannical government. Nothing about hunting, nothing about target shooting, nothing about sporting.

Our government and law enforcement has a certain level of firepower and our second amendment allows to match it.

biggill wrote:

February 19, 2018 at 10:57 am#1753434
Besox wrote:
Chicago is an actual battelfied right now, what is being done to fix that? Gun control has worked…….?

A little nugget. I too thought Chicago was an example of gun control failures. It’s good to do research before posting things like that.

It is the perfect example, even with the restrictions it had little effect. We are past the point of just blaming the gun and not the shooter.
Just my .02, by the way the Chicago Trib is about as trustworthy as the Star Trib….

So your saying us as civilians We should be able to buy a aircraft carrier to protect us from our government since they have them?

Besox wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>biggill wrote:</div>
February 19, 2018 at 10:57 am#1753434
Besox wrote:
Chicago is an actual battelfied right now, what is being done to fix that? Gun control has worked…….?

A little nugget. I too thought Chicago was an example of gun control failures. It’s good to do research before posting things like that.

It is the perfect example, even with the restrictions it had little effect. We are past the point of just blaming the gun and not the shooter.
Just my .02, by the way the Chicago Trib is about as trustworthy as the Star Trib….

And loosened restrictions had no effect either. My point is that the Chicago angle is moot.

smb218 wrote:

So your saying us as civilians We should be able to buy a aircraft carrier to protect us from our government since they have them?

Sure, why not. Want to go in on one with me? I got $9 in my wallet. How much do they cost?

biggill wrote:

3. I will not budge on my second amendment right. EVER!
Work on the social issues and this debate fades away.

I hear what you are saying here but what are we supposed to do in the meantime? Work on the social issues? Change the whole treatment of mentally ill people in this country, poverty, racism, bullying…..? This is a culture shift that would take years if not generations to be successful at. I agree with you but you are talking about changing the way that a whole population deals with these problems and that change isn’t going to happen overnight.

Ive read through this whole thread and trust me I have no idea what the right answer is. I can see that a lot of people want change but what are the right changes to make I don’t know and clearly there are a lot of differences in opinions. But from what I can tell the main arguments in favor of everyday citizens owning assault rifles are

1) varmint hunting/target practice
2) one person mentioned our right to bear arms being tied to having the ability to defend yourself against (overthrow) a tyrannical government.
3) Its my right and that’s all that needs to be said about it

To me all of these arguments seem rather weak in comparison with the supposed benefits of taking away access to these weapons on a legal level. Now the question of whether taking away the weapons will make a difference is a different question all together and I am not educated on the matter well enough to have a solid opinion. I guess my genuine observation is, with the reason for wanting these weapons is simply:

1) “because I can”,
2) “to support a citizen led uprising against our nations massive and well trained U.S. military with fighter jets, tanks, ships, logistical technology, and bombs”, (Its laughable to think that a handful of citizens with AR’s can take on the U.S. military. Ive seen Red Dawn and I can assure you that none of you are half the man that P-Swaze was)
3) and to shoot varmint with”

can we not make some sort of compromise? I guess I look at that list and I don’t see a lot in the way of giving up too much. If you own 20 guns and 0 of them are assault rifles are you not still demonstrating the “right to bear arms”?

Haha I got 27 dollars in my wallet. We only about a billion short. We could start a go fund me

I don’t want to argue… but simply to clarify

Brian Klawitter wrote:

The Chris Kyle story? No one is saying the teachers are to train the kids! I don’t understand that statement.

Not what I was trying to say. I don’t want to train anyone in schools to shoot people. The point was, you can have all the guns and training in the world and still not defend yourself… let alone hundreds or thousands of students and teachers.

Crappie, it’ll take just as long to disarm the public of these “assault” weapons.

Our country is founded on the concept that our government is equal to its people, not superior. By eroding our amendments we are eroding our freedom.

And no, I don’t expect the people to buy aircraft carriers and battleships to overthrow the government. In reality I would expect our armed forces to possibly operate separately from our government in case of tyranny.

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

biggill wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>smb218 wrote:</div>
So your saying us as civilians We should be able to buy a aircraft carrier to protect us from our government since they have them?

Sure, why not. Want to go in on one with me? I got $9 in my wallet. How much do they cost?

I understand that the 2nd amendment guarantees citizens the right to match government arms, but in reality the system that has been created makes it incredibly easy for “the government” (CIA, FBI, US Military, state and local police forces, etc.) to procure certain types of weapons while most of these are essentially unattainable for the average citizen.

If we are already treating weapons of war (tanks, air craft carriers, RPG’s, nuclear and chemical weapons) differently, why would it be such a burden to include semi-automatic weapons designed to kill multiple people as quickly as possible?

For those of you with GI Joe fantasies that you are going to use your AR-15 to overthrow a tyrannical United States government, good luck & god speed. I personally think you’ll be vastly over-matched, but give it a go.

I can’t help but wonder how some of the same folks stockpiling arms to defend against the government, often seem obsessed with extolling its virtues, touting the force of our military, and sometimes blindly supporting LEOs. The math doesn’t add up for me.

Anyway as all of us that have read and replied to this thread we can see that us as sportmen and women can’t even agree or come up with a solution so sad to say this is going to happen again and again with just more loss and blame on others then for us to ever come up with anything that is “fair” or “right”.

biggill wrote:

Crappie, it’ll take just as long to disarm the public of these “assault” weapons.

Our country is founded on the concept that our government is equal to its people, not superior. By eroding our amendments we are eroding our freedom.

And no, I don’t expect the people to buy aircraft carriers and battleships to overthrow the government. In reality I would expect our armed forces to possibly operate separately from our government in case of tyranny.

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

Well said.

biggill wrote:

Crappie, it’ll take just as long to disarm the public of these “assault” weapons.

Our country is founded on the concept that our government is equal to its people, not superior. By eroding our amendments we are eroding our freedom.

And no, I don’t expect the people to buy aircraft carriers and battleships to overthrow the government. In reality I would expect our armed forces to possibly operate separately from our government in case of tyranny.

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

So the resistance to remove the right to own AR’s is more conceptual in nature rather than practical? Its about theory and the preservation of an ideology?

OK so we “ban” AR’s, what is the next target? Hand guns? Clips that hold more than a few rounds?
Banning “AR’s” will save zero lives or solve zero problems.
The Anti gun folks will just check that box and move on to the next one.

Did you know that they are removing swing sets from playgrounds? It was determined, by the insurance industry, that they caused the most injuries. So they are removing them. A long time staple of the playground. Well sometime in the future another piece of playground will now rise to the number one spot. They will remove that one next and so on. That how it starts and ends. Evil will always find a way. Just another feel good gesture. Don’t worry nothing will change. The reailty is the Dem’s will not let a republican president get any credit for getting through any new gun legislation.

For those of us living in Wisconsin , the spring primary is feb 20. The only real way to make your opinion count

Wow…this thread amazes me. I am of the opinion that taking or eliminating a certain type of gun will solve nothing. After all, the Columbine shooting happened during the last “Assault Weapons Ban” didn’t it? Last I checked that went from 1994-2004 and the Columbine shooting happened in 1999.

Personally if I was going to blame anything it would be one of two things…The fact that so many people live in but do not participate in their communities, or the outrageous use of prescription drugs in this country.

If you feel so strongly that something should be done in your community to stop a school shooting. Get your butt to the school board meetings, and get involved in what is actually being done on a local level to prevent it. Speaking up on a local level will get way more traction than with the Feds.

As for the drug issue, be a part of your friends and families lives and speak up if you see a problem.

In short, this problem should be addressed on a local level and never should be addressed by anyone in our Federal Government. I bet if someone called the local police chief they would do a lot more digging into a suspected problem child than the FBI. Love your families, Love your kids, and Love your neighbors. Do that and you will feel much more comfortable in your community…regardless of what is going on in Washington.

Oh and take a kid fishing…

crappie55369 wrote:

So the resistance to remove the right to own AR’s is more conceptual in nature rather than practical? Its about theory and the preservation of an ideology?

Absolutely not. Not sure how you got that idea.

The government is eroding our freedom by eroding our constitution every day. I believe in this wholeheartedly.

We used to be the greatest country in earth. Not even close anymore and this is proof why.

Again, these types of issues are only a barometer for much much larger problems. Failing to address those problems will lead to more problems and loss of freedom.

I’ve said it once already. Legalize marijuana and other similar non addictive drugs and use that tax money to treat addiction and mental health issues. We need to refocus our strategy on crime. By legalizing marijuana we will free up a ton of space in prison for violent criminals so we can remove them from society. How many times do we need to hear about a chronic domestic abuser killing his wife or whole family?

I’ll say it again, this country is eroding from the inside out.

This country is doomed.

My kids all handle firearms, the two oldest of my five own hand guns. My daughter in law has a permit to carry. My kids are more knowledgeable on history and the history of a disarmed country and the difference between citizens and subjects, what a genocide is and how those who are oblivious to history are doomed to repeat it than most adults. And no I’m not an nra member or own a handgun or ar.

I have two grandkids who’s dad is a marine. Can guarantee you what my daughter and son in law’s take would be if this happened to one or both of their kids. It’s tragic, horrendous and unbelievable, but no more so than the brother’s I went to highschool with who watched their parents bleed out after being hit by a drunk driver. We have law’s and make more law’s, but everyone is still able to drink alcohol and drive home. It sickens me to the pit of my being watching guy’s at a bar drink and get behind the wheel of a vehicle. Go out with some guys from Europe and see what they think of our drinking and driving problem, they can’t believe how ignorant we are with alcohol and vehicles. But we tried prohibition and how did that go.

Yes, something needs to be done. But when one thought process already agrees that what they want to do probably won’t have much impact, but we feel we have to because we’ll feel better, is a logic many, myself included, don’t understand. Our thought processes are different, and it’s hard to look outside your own point of view, myself included. Maybe we can come to a point of what is agreed on vs bashing our heads against a wall we’ll never agree on what we hold as givens.

The second allows us to own firearms to protect ourselves from the government, period, that’s not debatable without changing the foundation of our freedom and how our forefathers fought a tyrannical system and carved out our constitution.

If you can say you trust our government or any government, then I beg of you, read some history books on the subject before rejecting our constitution and Bill of Rights which where brilliantly written and argued over.

basseyes wrote:

If you can say you trust our government or any government, then I beg of you, read some history books on the subject before rejecting our constitution and Bill of Rights which where brilliantly written and argued over.

Yes. Anyone who is for limiting our rights, please do. They are beautifully written and it give me renewed faith in our country when I do read them. It makes you wonder how in the hell we got to where we are today. The patriot act is the biggest attack on our freedom in the history of this country and it’s only an example of where where were headed if we continue down this road.

Full disclosure, I was in the military… I guarantee you, the citizens of this country… armed as they are, would wipe out our military in months if it went rogue with tyranny. That is why there is a 2nd Amendment.

big_g wrote:

Full disclosure, I was in the military… I guarantee you, the citizens of this country… armed as they are, would wipe out our military in months if it went rogue with tyranny. That is why there is a 2nd Amendment.

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big_g wrote:

Full disclosure, I was in the military… I guarantee you, the citizens of this country… armed as they are, would wipe out our military in months if it went rogue with tyranny. That is why there is a 2nd Amendment.

I’m not sure if that should bring me comfort or concern? If you have not noticed, the citizens of this country have changed significantly this past generation. Might this be the “enemy” finding their way through the back door…or the weak side as all the focus is on the “front”?

Perhaps this is why Trump want’s to build that wall?

How did the DNC work out last go round for Bernie ? That right there should show you what the government is capable of… and the people did NOTHING ! Unreal how they rolled over. IALTO too.

The country is doomed? It’s the Dems fault? Let’s change nothing… Let’s continue to blame half the country for literally every problem. Meanwhile… Tick tock.

Blame half the country ? I blame the shooter and those who “knew he would do this” who did nothing.. and when some did, the FBI ignored it. The Dems/Clintons rigged the DNC… that is a fact. People think our government is unable of corruption and tyranny… and it happened right there and probably cost them the presidency too, that’s all. There is plenty to change… tick tock.

Well this recent shooting has nothing to do with the guns as much as it does with the government agencies. The FBI was tipped off and didn’t follow protocol. Also the local police and sheriff had been to the shooters house numerous times before the shooting. Oh yeah and the fact the dude tweeted and posted that he was going to do this which was again ignored by the FBI and law enforcement agencies. Doesn’t matter if you’re pro gun or anti gun EVERYONE should be enraged at the lack of response from law enforcement and ALL the tips they received about this coward.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-statement-on-the-shooting-in-parkland-florida

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-case-update-20180216-story.html

I’ve been trying to avoid this but here I am.

For those wanting to chip away at the American’s rights, I’ll leave you will a couple of quotes. Let them sink in.

“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the
government take care of him better take a closer look at the American
Indian.” Henry Ford

We are growing a larger and larger population segment that believes that government is the solution to their problems. It is not, and never has been.

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” ~ Thomas Jefferson

Jefferson hits these school shootings on the head. We build “safe zones”. They are only safe for the one POS that is armed with intent to do harm. The safe zones are always going to be targets because the POS can do the most damage there. And this POS even escaped with the people he was targeting. He knew how to use the safe zone to his advantage all the way through his escape.

Yet many call for even more safe zones, aka targets?

Since the beginning of time, there have always been predators and prey. Removing a claw from the predator will not change who he is or what he does. The solution is to educate the prey.

Kyhl wrote:

Laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man

Not trying to be a stickler here, but Henry Ford never said that. It is often attributed to him by those trying to make a particular point. But he never said it.

Also the quote attributed to Jefferson is not from Jefferson. It is from Cesare Beccaria’s Essay on Crimes and Punishments. Originally published in Italy in 1764. Your version was translated to english by Henry Palolucci in 1963.

smb218 wrote:

So here is a thought. I’m all about the right to bear arms but really come on everybody why are civilians able to go to a store and but a assault rifle. They are made to kill people end of sentence. No civilians should be able to just go get one. Why is it that hard for you all to understand. Some say they made for target practice or that’s what i use them for. Well that what .22’s are for. You don’t see many mass shootings if any done with a .22 but we do see mass shootings with AR 15’s and other types of high caliber assault rifles. Wtf. If you want to get one you should have to wait a few weeks give a blood and urine tests and go through a extensive background check which should be paid for by the purchaser sure you want a assault rifle pay for all these tests and the background check. You pass all of them then have your pretty people killing gun. You want one that bad to go though all the tests and your found that your a stable human not on drugs or have any mental illness then again enjoy your assault rifle. And those who want to use the 2nd amendment bull pretty sure assault rifles were not around when it went into effect. I’m sure you all will bash and have hate replies but whatever. I don’t care if your a up standing citizen or a crazed madmen point is assault rifles should only be for law enforcement or the military common sense people.

Can we ban kicks, headbutts, and punches too? Because human body parts account for more homicides than rifles do annually. Or Knives? we should ban knives. Those account for more homicides than rifles annually. Do you actually know how many homicides are committed with firearms that meet the oft accepted “assault rifle” criteria?