How Can We Keep Our Schools Safe?

  • joemama
    North St Paul
    Posts: 392
    #1753043

    So sad , just tired of seeing this happen over and over . The politicians are so beholden to powerful special interest groups , nothing will change unless we make it happen . I am a hunter , gun owner , and an ex marine . I’m also a father of two . I just don’t see what purpose these particular weapons serve. They fall into the wrong hands too easily .If it possibly saves some child’s life by making it harder for some whack job to obtain these weapons , I have no problem with harsher restrictions on guns . I know it won’t solve it all , but it’s a start .

    Well said, everyone wants a solution that doesn’t cost them anything..wether you want to talk about mental health focus or some sort of gun restrictions people only see how it will impact them. We deserve the politicians WE elect. Any real movement to impact a reduction in mass shooting will cause a lose of some freedom for someone. But isn’t easier to just spout off the next time parents are burying another group of kids, concert goers, people at a night club ? What would you be willing to give up ?

    walleyevision
    Posts: 407
    #1753046

    There are obviously a lot of factors at play, but I just can’t get past the idea of our country’s need for AR-15 type rifles. I’m an avid hunter and absolutely hate the NRA. Have you noticed that the talk of banning bump stocks after the Las Vegas shooting has completely gone away…I wonder why that has changed, I’m guessing the NRA told their bought and paid for politicians to shut the hell up.

    Back to the AR-15. These guns are too easily modified into killing machines. 30 round clips, seriously who needs that? If you can’t hit a varmint or a target in 5 shots, guess what, you are a terrible shot, maybe find a new hobby. Was it really so awful for gun owners from 1994 to 2004 when ARs and large round magazines were banned? Nope it wasn’t, and if you tell yourself it was, you are lying to yourself and you know it. If the ban was still in place it may not have stopped Florida or Sandy Hook, but there sure as hell would’ve been a hell of a lot less dead children.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59940
    #1753047

    Bump stocks “are for novelty, not accuracy” and most agree, it wasn’t a bump stock or AR that killed that day.

    Have you noticed that the talk of banning bump stocks after the Las Vegas shooting has completely gone away…I wonder why that has changed, I’m guessing the NRA told their bought and paid for politicians to shut the hell up.

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25025
    #1753052

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>mplspug wrote:</div>
    More like 6 years. We have the death penalty.

    6 years or 6 times? The more research I do the higher the cost is.

    Not sure what you mean by 6 times?

    Itay not matter, the defense is offering a plea deal. Life in prison without parole for a guilty plea.

    mplspug
    Palmetto, Florida
    Posts: 25025
    #1753053

    What is it about an AR-15 that makes people want to do this?

    slipbob_nick
    Princeton, MN
    Posts: 1297
    #1753054

    In no way have the answer but something’s that could help.

    Media is never allowed to release shooters name no sensationalism or attention.

    As a country we unite and stop preaching hate including how nasty the political divide has become. Users on here have gotten worked up about politics on a fishing forum on s regular basis. Wether a person is a democrat, republican, gay, straight, or drives a ford were all on the same team.

    More open dialogue about depression, mental illnesses they should be treated as similar as diabetes or common illnesses not a big dark secret.

    slipbob_nick
    Princeton, MN
    Posts: 1297
    #1753055

    Off topic but how many kids in these situations were part of school activities or athletics?im guessing a fair bet is zero. No sympathy for the criminal don’t want to disrespect victims but how can it not assume the criminal was all alone in their mental capacity. With more and more broken homes kids need a sense of community

    nord
    Posts: 681
    #1753068

    Anyone wonder why we seem to be the only country on this planet that has this problem? Yet, we continue to let our people be killed by military assault rifles, AK 47’s, M-16’s, and AR 15’s. These rifles were made for one reason, to kill people, and they do a great job. It makes me so sad to think of all the wonderful children that we have lost. Will our government do anything about it? I doubt it. bawling bawling bawling

    Hudson8907
    NULL
    Posts: 102
    #1753069

    I don’t understand why some of you are using this platform to bash kids for being transgender. Why do you care? They are fellow citizens of this great country and have the same rights as you. Let them be who they want to be. Simple as that.

    saugeye-steve
    Posts: 293
    #1753071

    I don’t understand why some of you are using this platform to bash kids for being transgender. Why do you care? They are fellow citizens of this great country and have the same rights as you. Let them be who they want to be. Simple as that.

    I believe the poster was referring to the fact that our society is falling apart.
    History has shown that many great nations have imploded just as ours will by continuing down this slope.

    CaptainMusky
    Posts: 19317
    #1753072

    I mostly agree but gates being locked not only locks the bad guy in, it locks the victims in too. Plus it locks out first responders coming to help. I get your line of thinking though.

    IMO mandatory talks with a mental health pro for all school kids would go along way to help them cope.

    the design I have seen implemented confines a potential threat to a small area that is isolated from common areas where the vast majority of students and staff are. The school my wife and kids have attended is this way. The only door you can enter during school hours has a button you have to press that is outside the building which allows you to speak to someone in the office. If you are buzzed in the office is immediately inside and 1 push of a button on the office would drop gates 10 feet in either side of this door and keep them out of the office as well.

    Wallscalls
    central MN
    Posts: 10
    #1753074

    What the heck is a clip? Back in my youth I had a clip on tie. It couldn’t hold 30 of anything and it wasn’t round either.

    Mudshark
    LaCrosse WI
    Posts: 2973
    #1753075

    Edit………Removing myself from this discussion……

    pool2fool
    Inactive
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 1709
    #1753079

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Hudson8907 wrote:</div>
    I don’t understand why some of you are using this platform to bash kids for being transgender. Why do you care? They are fellow citizens of this great country and have the same rights as you. Let them be who they want to be. Simple as that.

    I believe the poster was referring to the fact that our society is falling apart.
    History has shown that many great nations have imploded just as ours will by continuing down this slope.

    Saugeye, You sound about as sane as a Westboro Baptist member protesting at a military funeral.

    What to do when you can draw no actual line between two things that anger you, but are desperate to link them into a tidy explanation that fits your agenda? Just blame everything on the general “downfall of society.” applause

    TripleA
    Blaine
    Posts: 655
    #1753082

    Armed guards.

    Just like the elites are protected, while telling everyone why guns are bad.

    TripleA
    Blaine
    Posts: 655
    #1753084

    There are obviously a lot of factors at play, but I just can’t get past the idea of our country’s need for AR-15 type rifles. I’m an avid hunter and absolutely hate the NRA. Have you noticed that the talk of banning bump stocks after the Las Vegas shooting has completely gone away…I wonder why that has changed, I’m guessing the NRA told their bought and paid for politicians to shut the hell up.

    Back to the AR-15. These guns are too easily modified into killing machines. 30 round clips, seriously who needs that? If you can’t hit a varmint or a target in 5 shots, guess what, you are a terrible shot, maybe find a new hobby. Was it really so awful for gun owners from 1994 to 2004 when ARs and large round magazines were banned? Nope it wasn’t, and if you tell yourself it was, you are lying to yourself and you know it. If the ban was still in place it may not have stopped Florida or Sandy Hook, but there sure as hell would’ve been a hell of a lot less dead children.

    Pretend I agree with you.

    How do you take away the ar15s and high cap magazines?

    Do you think the criminals will drop them off at the local PD?

    The implementation is literally impossible.

    chomps
    Sioux City IA
    Posts: 3974
    #1753092

    I know that this is a long read, but read it anyway

    From LTC (RET) Dave Grossman:
    “How many kids have been killed by school fire in all of North America in the past 50 years? Kids killed… school fire… North America… 50 years… How many? Zero. That’s right. Not one single kid has been killed by school fire anywhere in North America in the past half a century.
    Now, how many kids have been killed by school violence?”
    Standing on the stage of a high school auditorium, Grossman walked to the side nearest a wall as he addressed the crowd.
    “Look up at the ceiling! See all those sprinklers up there? They’re hard to spot — they’re painted black — but they’re there. While you’re looking, look at the material the ceiling is made of. You know that that stuff was selected because it’s fire-retardant. Now look over there above the door — you see that fire exit sign? That’s not just any fire exit sign — that’s a ‘battery-backup-when-the-world-ends-it-will-still-be-lit’ fire exit sign.
    He walked to the other side, nearby a fire exit and exterior wall, Grossman slammed the palm of his hand against the wall and exclaimed, “Look at these wall boards! They were chosen because they’re what, fireproof or fire retardant? There is not one stinking thing in this room that will burn!”
    Pointing around the room as he spoke, Grossman continued, “But you’ve still got those fire sprinklers, those fire exit signs, fire hydrants outside, and fire trucks nearby! Are these fire guys crazy? Are these fire guys paranoid? No! This fire guy is our A+ student! Because this fire guy has redundant, overlapping layers of protection, not a single kid has been killed by school fire in the last 50 years!”
    “But you try to prepare for violence — the thing much more likely to kill our kids in schools, the thing hundreds of times more likely to kill our kids in schools, and people think you’re paranoid. They think you’re crazy. They’re in denial.”
    I want you to stop for a moment and think about how much money is spent on ways to put fires out and stop them from spreading. How much time is spent on training what to do if a fire burns and spreads? Now how much money and time is spent on stopping violence?
    Very little because it makes YOU UNCOMFORTABLE.
    The idea of trained staff and security with firearms in your children’s schools shocks you. Well… reality check. The image of your child in a casket due to a murderer in school with a gun will be infinitely more shocking I guarantee you.
    Passing laws restricting firearms would have the same effect as passing laws against fire. If changes in firearm laws are your answer as to how we can save children’s lives, you are naive, uninformed about human conflict, and frankly have nothing better to offer. You are grasping at straws in the darkness of ignorance. I do not hold it against you. Anyone asked to solve a problem they are not equipped to solve will make an effort to do so if they believe it to be necessary.
    ACCEPT that evil walks the earth and you or your children may one day see it.
    LEARN about how the human reacts in moments of danger and peril.
    DEVELOP SKILLS to stay alive whatever they may be.
    SHARE the mindset, knowledge and skills with your children and loved ones.
    WATER puts out FIRE.
    GUNS stop GUNS.
    You all keep pizzing in the wind and wringing your hands.
    – Lt Col David Grossman
    YouTube him, he has great insight

    kabefisherman11
    Posts: 201
    #1753094

    Let me just say that this kind of shooting is absolutely unacceptable. It has become way to common and I feel like my son should be safe at school just like all of your kids. This school in Florida had an armed guard. Didn’t matter and it’s no slight to him. He was probably massively outgunned. If you want to see what that looks like look at the Hollywood shootout from the 90s. The police didn’t have much of a chance until they got a hold of are. Doing nothing isn’t working and neither is taking all the guns away. It isn’t practical. The guns are out there and aren’t going anywhere. The next option is to have multilayered security at school. Do you want all schools to have guard posts and 20 ft tall fences like a prison? Maybe but it’s also not practical. Who is going to pay for it? You can ban high capacity magazines but they’re also out there. We ban illegal drugs and people seem to find a way to OD on them on a daily basis. We might need a new train of thought.

    basseyes
    Posts: 2391
    #1753095

    There are obviously a lot of factors at play, but I just can’t get past the idea of our country’s need for AR-15 type rifles. I’m an avid hunter and absolutely hate the NRA. Have you noticed that the talk of banning bump stocks after the Las Vegas shooting has completely gone away…I wonder why that has changed, I’m guessing the NRA told their bought and paid for politicians to shut the hell up.

    Back to the AR-15. These guns are too easily modified into killing machines. 30 round clips, seriously who needs that? If you can’t hit a varmint or a target in 5 shots, guess what, you are a terrible shot, maybe find a new hobby. Was it really so awful for gun owners from 1994 to 2004 when ARs and large round magazines were banned? Nope it wasn’t, and if you tell yourself it was, you are lying to yourself and you know it. If the ban was still in place it may not have stopped Florida or Sandy Hook, but there sure as hell would’ve been a hell of a lot less dead children.

    A simple question, what does hunting have to do with the nra? The nra supports the second amendment, which has nothing to do with hunting.

    basseyes
    Posts: 2391
    #1753097

    So sad , just tired of seeing this happen over and over . The politicians are so beholden to powerful special interest groups , nothing will change unless we make it happen . I am a hunter , gun owner , and an ex marine . I’m also a father of two . I just don’t see what purpose these particular weapons serve. They fall into the wrong hands too easily .If it possibly saves some child’s life by making it harder for some whack job to obtain these weapons , I have no problem with harsher restrictions on guns . I know it won’t solve it all , but it’s a start .

    Simple question, what law’s did this shooter follow? If he didn’t follow the law’s we already have, why would he follow more law’s?

    joemama
    North St Paul
    Posts: 392
    #1753098

    A simple question, what does hunting have to do with the nra? The nra supports the second amendment, which has nothing to do with hunting.

    The NRA supports it’s own interests not anything to do with the second amendment.

    walleyevision
    Posts: 407
    #1753103

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>walleyevision wrote:</div>
    There are obviously a lot of factors at play, but I just can’t get past the idea of our country’s need for AR-15 type rifles. I’m an avid hunter and absolutely hate the NRA. Have you noticed that the talk of banning bump stocks after the Las Vegas shooting has completely gone away…I wonder why that has changed, I’m guessing the NRA told their bought and paid for politicians to shut the hell up.

    Back to the AR-15. These guns are too easily modified into killing machines. 30 round clips, seriously who needs that? If you can’t hit a varmint or a target in 5 shots, guess what, you are a terrible shot, maybe find a new hobby. Was it really so awful for gun owners from 1994 to 2004 when ARs and large round magazines were banned? Nope it wasn’t, and if you tell yourself it was, you are lying to yourself and you know it. If the ban was still in place it may not have stopped Florida or Sandy Hook, but there sure as hell would’ve been a hell of a lot less dead children.

    A simple question, what does hunting have to do with the nra? The nra supports the second amendment, which has nothing to do with hunting.

    Are you serious? Maybe I should clarify, I hunt with a gun. If you can’t connect the dots, I don’t know what to tell you.

    walleyevision
    Posts: 407
    #1753104

    Bump stocks “are for novelty, not accuracy” and most agree, it wasn’t a bump stock or AR that killed that day.

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>walleyevision wrote:</div>
    Have you noticed that the talk of banning bump stocks after the Las Vegas shooting has completely gone away…I wonder why that has changed, I’m guessing the NRA told their bought and paid for politicians to shut the hell up.

    Mass shooters don’t care about accuracy, they care about spraying as many bullets at the masses as fast as possible. If they cared about accuracy, they’d use a bolt action rifle with a scope. Bump stocks are good for nothing and there is no reason they should be legal.

    walleyevision
    Posts: 407
    #1753109

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>walleyevision wrote:</div>
    There are obviously a lot of factors at play, but I just can’t get past the idea of our country’s need for AR-15 type rifles. I’m an avid hunter and absolutely hate the NRA. Have you noticed that the talk of banning bump stocks after the Las Vegas shooting has completely gone away…I wonder why that has changed, I’m guessing the NRA told their bought and paid for politicians to shut the hell up.

    Back to the AR-15. These guns are too easily modified into killing machines. 30 round clips, seriously who needs that? If you can’t hit a varmint or a target in 5 shots, guess what, you are a terrible shot, maybe find a new hobby. Was it really so awful for gun owners from 1994 to 2004 when ARs and large round magazines were banned? Nope it wasn’t, and if you tell yourself it was, you are lying to yourself and you know it. If the ban was still in place it may not have stopped Florida or Sandy Hook, but there sure as hell would’ve been a hell of a lot less dead children.

    Pretend I agree with you.

    How do you take away the ar15s and high cap magazines?

    Do you think the criminals will drop them off at the local PD?

    The implementation is literally impossible.

    I agree it would be very tough. The criminals would no doubt never turn over their firearms.

    Most of these shootings don’t involve seasoned criminals, but first time offenders. In most of these cases, their ARs were purchased legally. If the assault rifle ban were still in place Sandy Hook and Florida deaths would’ve been diminished. Just because something would be really difficult to do, doesn’t make it wrong. At least it would be a start, and if meant that just one less kid would be massacred, I’m all for it.

    basseyes
    Posts: 2391
    #1753113

    Are you serious? Maybe I should clarify, I hunt with a gun. If you can’t connect the dots, I don’t know what to tell you.

    Very serious. The second amendment has nothing to do with owning firearms to hunt with. Yes, the second amendment protects your right to own a firearm, but it’s purpose is not to allow law abiding citizens to own firearms to hunt. Why should law abiding citizens, have more law’s, when criminals could care less about law’s. What are more law’s going to solve? Take emotions out of it and look at it logically. It feels good to make more law’s, but what would more law’s have done to stop this?

    basseyes
    Posts: 2391
    #1753114

    The NRA supports it’s own interests not anything to do with the second amendment.

    Could you please explain what the nra actually supports?

    I’m not a member and not trying to argue, just curious what their agenda is? It’s supported by a huge number of law abiding citizens that don’t want kids shot or criminals to have the right to own firearms. Highly doubt the nra supports killing kids.

    The thing most people who support stricter gun laws seem to not understand is, the fear mongering only increases gun sale’s.

    tornadochaser
    Posts: 756
    #1753115

    Short term fix? You start with the schools. Single, controlled point of entry during school hours. You have a school head of safety/security with experience, training, and knowledge to implement and DRILL an active shooter plan with local authorities. You have layered armed security. 2 uniformed, armed, & trained people on duty. Additional staff trained to provide support in the event of an active shooter. One monitoring video feeds and one patrolling the grounds interacting with students. You remove these asinine policies of “conflict resolution” when violence or threats happen at school or to students/staff. Your security and staff need to be trained and have access to tourniquets. Districts need to get over the liability and insurance worries regarding additional firearms on the premises.

    We live in a violent word. It’s always been a violent world, ever since the first monkey smashed his monkey buddy in the head with a rock. Long term, we need to fund better mental health research for adolescents. Why are some of these school shooters being prescribed large doses of meds? What happens to the developing human brain when these meds are stopped? What happens to the developing human brain when exposed to hours upon hours of video game violence?

    Blaming the AR-15 or 30 round magazines is a cop out. I can take an 8 shot 1911 pistol or even a 6 shot revolver, set up a belt with the proper magazine holders or speed loader holders, and burn through a hundred rounds of ammo in a few minutes. That still equates to plenty of damage when your walking down a hallway facing zero armed opposition. Evidence from many previous mass shootings indicates these assailants are often meticulous planners. Take away the semi-automatic rifle with it’s standard capacity magazine and the determined individual will find other means. That’s been proven time and time again. Truck attacks in europe. Knife & gas attacks in Japan and China.

    Now, maybe there are some “reasonable” (and I use that word somewhat sarcastically) changes to firearms laws that could potentially reduce gun crimes. Mandatory 4473 on all private transactions? Could possibly help. Could create a bigger black market. Magazine restrictions? I just posted an example that nullifies that argument. 21 to purchase any firearm? Adam Lanza’s mom bought him the guns just to placate him.

    what’s somewhat disturbing to me is that there are still to this day and age so many Fudds out there that say “you don’t need” or “I don’t hunt with” X type of firearm. They think that since they don’t use those guns, nobody else needs to either. It’s too bad they didn’t pay attention in history class. I hunt with an AR. I shoot competitions with an AR, & a semi-auto handgun. I don’t shoot single shot rifles. I think they are pointless. Who needs them? Who cares if we ban them? .308 is a sniper round for war. It doesn’t belong in the deer woods. It should be banned. – see I can do that too, and what good does it do? Just creates infighting among firearms owners, owners who choose to own for many different reasons.

    walleyevision
    Posts: 407
    #1753120

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>walleyevision wrote:</div>
    Are you serious? Maybe I should clarify, I hunt with a gun. If you can’t connect the dots, I don’t know what to tell you.

    Very serious. The second amendment has nothing to do with owning firearms to hunt with.

    Dude, come on, really? Without the second amendment I couldn’t own a gun to hunt with.

    TripleA
    Blaine
    Posts: 655
    #1753126

    I also don’t agree with the NRA defending what seems to be ANY more regulation, but I understand why. It’s a slippery slope, once something is taken away through laws it is gone, even if it did not work to solve the problem. Then another law to fix the same issue goes in effect, the never ending cycle in an imperfect and typically extremely wasteful system.

    I really think armed security is the only way to make places safer. The politicians sit behind armed guards screaming for the law abiding citizens to turn over their guns. Trained armed guards would not be some extreme cost, as far as I know basic armed guards are not payed the best to begin with. What parent wouldnt pay more to ensire their childs safety? I really think the guard itself would deter a shooter to begin with as most criminals do not want a fight, they prey on those unable to defend themselves.

    basseyes
    Posts: 2391
    #1753135

    Dude, come on, really? Without the second amendment I couldn’t own a gun to hunt with.

    Yes, the second allows you to own a firearm, and yes you can hunt with that firearm. But the second was not written so you can own a firearm to hunt with. It was written for a much different reason. The reason has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. There’s many gun owners who don’t hunt.

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