Coast Guard tells Griz no more guiding on the Riv!

Just heard this evening that the Coast Guard has informed the Griz that he can no longer guide on the River without the 6 Pack License. For the time being the Griz will be guiding on the North Metro lakes and wasn’t sure if he was going to get the required License. He may just get a bigger boat and head back to the Pond for his lively hood! He said he certainly won’t be risking the $10,000 fine for each guided trip that the CG can impose!

This will effect up-wards of a 100 River guides supposedly.

I know Brian has the proper license and has mentioned this in the past.

I’m just wondering how many people this will effect in the guide business.

Is it Good? Or is it Bad? I know it’s quite expensive and a bit of a pain to get with limited classes and locations..

What say you!

There’s been a couple threads on this over the past week. This link will take you to one of the more active ones.

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If I remember…a couple years ago the CG was clear on enforcing this and several IDA Guides went to the classes and got the required licences to comply with the law. There were several discussions on this issue.
Jarad Fleukiger just posted on this the past week…I am surprised a notable Guiding/TV personality like the Grizz was not properly licenced? I have seen his Johnboat guiding on P-4 several times most every spring. He is breaking the law and gets licenced or can’t guide on the river…Nothing personal about it…

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There’s been a couple threads on this over the past week. This link will take you to one of the more active ones.

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Thanks James as usual I should have searched a bit before posting this…

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There’s been a couple threads on this over the past week. This link will take you to one of the more active ones.

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Thanks James as usual I should have searched a bit before posting this…

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Not a problem… we’re always happy to point people in the right direction. I can’t keep up with half the stuff that happens around here and by all accounts… I’m supposed to.

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He is breaking the law and gets licenced or can’t guide on the river…Nothing personal about it…

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Ditto

I thought everyone new about it was required to be legal.

Post deleted by Stuart

I really don’t see this action as being one to tell someone that they cannot guide….they just have to comply with the law. Its more of a measure to assure all of us that those who should NOT be guiding, aren’t. Those who are serious guides do what’s required and accept their responsiblities….this site is full of such guides. Guiding goes way beyond just knowing where and when to fish and frankly I’m happy to see this happening. And as Jarrad has mentioned for WS waters, I’d like to see it manditory for inland waters, too, here in MN.

I spend my share of time on pools 4 and 5 and have never seen James, Dustin, John the Riverfan, or Jarrad operating in a discourteous way and I think that comes from having something to lose if they do….namely that license. Just having to register for random drug testing will eliminate many It ain’t all bad as far as I’m concerned. Actually, its about time.

I think the guides always had something to lose, mostly clients. The guides I know were established long before this crock of s==t law came about. More government getting their nose into someones business. Next they will require guides to log hours on the water and regulate that too.

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The guides I know were established long before this crock of s==t law came about.

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I guess I’d expect “established guides” to stay current on licensing and requirements. Federal waterways have specific requirements for those who want to guide on them. They don’y need to comply with federal requirements on waters where the federal government is not an issue.

To broaden this issue though, what about the Boundary Waters; or Winnie, Leech or any other waters created by a “federal dam”? This issue of natives on Mille Lacs is a “federal” one. Simply because the Fish and Wildlife Service or the Corps of Engineers is involved with a water, do the Feds have juristiction over those as well or is this just in waters used as a shipping lane?

Don,

This licensing requirement has been in effect for far longer than most guides have been around. It is simply to assure a certain level of proficiency and accountability among professional mariners.

Anyone who guides where a license is required without having one is quite simply an idiot. Without the license they have no insurance in effect and stand to lose everything that they own in the event of an accident. It is also a great disservice to the clients as well.

The license is also required on the MN, St Loius and Red rivers as well as Leech, Rainy, LOW, Cass, Winnie, Pokegama, and Gull.

I would like to see the state of MN require it for any guide on any water.

Does the license cost a lot of money, or is it just a bunch of hoops and red tape you have to jump through?

In effect maybe but not enforced. I knew quite a few well lets say most of the guides in my area that either were not required to or did not have the coast guard license. I would hardly call them idiots at the time or now.
Yep, get the feds involved in every business- thats the answer to all problems!

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Does the license cost a lot of money, or is it just a bunch of hoops and red tape you have to jump through?

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It’s around $750 to $1000 and 56 hours of Class work I do Believe.

Plus finger printing

Plus drug testing

Plus letters of reccomendation

Plus CPR

Plus First Aid

Plus Physical

Plus TWIC Card

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It’s around $750 to $1000 and 56 hours of Class work I do Believe.

Plus finger printing
Plus drug testing
Plus letters of reccomendation
Plus CPR
Plus First Aid
Plus Physical
Plus TWIC Card

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Yeah, that’s a bit of overkill. However I guess you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do to weed out the unsafe and unprofessional. Unfortunately you are going to weed out some of the good ones that can’t afford that kind of time and money.

A big bit of overkill, I can see cpr and maybe a physical but the rest is rediculos. These are the type of things why people are saying government is getting too big and complicated. I wonder what the states of Minnestoa and Wisconsin would do if all the guides decided to not guide for a year. I wonder if it would even turn the heads of the people who make these rules, Id bet most of these people don’t even fish.
These are the type of things where I had to voice my opinion, all just to take somebody fishing. Its just my opinion and Im not sorry for the venting!

One other thing that is done is a very extensive background check. If one has any criminal background, DWI/OWI, felonies, speeding tickets, misdameanors you will go through a very hard time trying to get the license. One guy I know was a trouble maker in his younger days had a very very hard time getting his license. He had to prove he wasn’t like that anymore after 20 years of being good.

The physical is pretty eloborate to, if you have any kind of medical conditions at all. Two guys in our class had bits of problems obtaining the license and almost gave up on it becuase of physical condition. One had heart problems(controlled though) and the other had diabetic problems. If insurance won’t pay for the physical you could have more cost. The guy who had diabetic problems spent almost $2000 on his physical. He got his Captains license but has no quit because of all the requirements.

Once all the information is required the next step is to send it into the Coast Guard Office. This is where the fun starts. If you don’t have all the T’s crossed and I’s dotted, and put in the right order, it will be sent back for you to do all over again.

Plus you have to get sworen in as well. This is about a 3 hours ride to Duluth for me for 30 seconds.

It tooks quite a few of us almost a year to get everything done.

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One other thing that is done is a very extensive background check. If one has any criminal background, DWI/OWI, felonies, speeding tickets, misdameanors you will go through a very hard time trying to get the license. One guy I know was a trouble maker in his younger days had a very very hard time getting his license. He had to prove he wasn’t like that anymore after 20 years of being good.

The physical is pretty eloborate to, if you have any kind of medical conditions at all.

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Yeah, all that’s pretty ridiculous just to take some yahoo from Iowa fishing for the day.

Knowing CPR, first aid and maybe a test on boating laws and fishing regulations is in order. But what you guys have described is unreal.

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A big bit of overkill,

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Everyone is entitled to their opinions and mine might be a little different than some…

The law is the law. A person can either comply with the law or try to change it.

To me, it’s not much different than our advertising policies on this or most other websites. A person can either follow the policies or they can try to find a way to work around them. Trying to stay under the radar.

One could pick apart the Coast Guard regulations and guide illegally or put in the investment and time to comply. Same thing with advertising. Although working around our advertising policies is not a felony.

The other choice would be to comply then work towards changing the rules.

Just my 02 fish bucks.b

I would like to do some part time guiding but all of this stuff makes it cost prohibitive to get started. Some of you full time guides started out as “pretenders”. There are some pretty talented folks who can’t get started. These fees are just a way to shake down the business community.

Kev, the “6 pack” license isn’t needed on 90% of your states waters…excluding the Great Lakes.

You wouldn’t be affected my this in your area.

I know. Right now a more suitable rig is my first priority. Once that chip falls, I am going to be in business. I have a fulltime job and a family, but live to fish. Part time guiding is my only way in to the business. I am a river rat stuck in lake country. It is like throwing away 20 years experience by not being allowed to fish the creek.

The good thing about the Licensing is that the cash and the time doesn’t have to be dropped all at the same time.

Getting the paper work together is the most time consuming. The physical is good for 1 year, the drug testing 6 months, the TWIC card is good for 5 years and the class room is good for one year.

Getting the mind set of “I’m going to do this” is the first step. Getting help is the second. From there a plan can be made to keep the costs at anyone time…”livable”.

There are start up costs to every business. This license is going to be a heck of a lot less expensive than your new ride!!

Ya Brian I hear you but you see things as they have too be followed because some people thought these rediculos rules and thoughts up. First off I’ve got to state whats on my mind. Im not slamming you at all but finger printing? you got to be kidding. Past OWI’s and some dumb moves in the past to make it worse, you got to be kidding? Wheres all the medicine, clearity and human interaction thats supposed to be in the air today, GOOD THUNDER!, all these people are doing is driving things in the ground with intellectual idiotisy. Obviously the people who are making these rules don’t care about a comfortable agenda (no hassel) when the people who are applying to get thier liscense have all the traits that are needed or they wouldn’t be in interisted in being a guide anyway, these are down to earth folks with too many hurdels infront of them. All these rules do is cloud things. Again Brian I have the utmost resepct for you but these rules are taking it too far and make it hard for some who really know the water and maybe don’t make so much pay and are the best of guys. All these rules do is complicate things for people who want to take others out for a simple fishing trip and thier going to be put on the back burner, maybe work two jobs to get the liscense money?. Whats wrong with takeing a coast guard test and a physical, post a small bond or get insurance and make sure all his cliants have a liscense, keeping it all that simple.

All this is is guideing not filing for a job with the FBI or the CIA. I don’t think this is an overstatement because all these rules are making things so complicted for people who know its better to live life simpler. To me and others all these unneeded rules are like telling my dog he has to be paw printed because he likes to hunt rabbits, theres no need for it, absolutely none at all. Things have gotten so far out of whack because some idiot or idiots think its a good idea and is completely rediculos. I hope like heck they don’t ask me for directions because I’ll send them down a dead end road, maybe then they will notice things should be simplier. The people who make these rules up are… and out of touch. Ya I know some aren’t going to like what I just said but most people I know think like that and most every other person thinks like that too, these rules aren’t needed at all. This is not a slam to anyone at all here on the site and its not intended that way.

The people who are making these rules are forgetting a couple of the most important things in life, common sense and simplicity, these are things that make life work the way its supposed too. Whats next mega tests for bear, pheasant and deer guides, with these people making the rules it just a short drive down the road. To me all these people do is set in a seat and wear it out be telling others what they think should be done and make it law. If these people would tell me this Id say you’ve got to be kidding and Im outta here,,,

I feel your pain Mossy. I actually think you hit the nail on the head.

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If these people would tell me this Id say you’ve got to be kidding and Im outta here

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I think they’re counting on it….

Probably Brian, what the heck are these morons doing in office anyway telling people what they need to do as a guide. Maybe if the guys guideing or would guide would send an e-mail to tell thier congressman of the hassels and how out of touch these ideas are maybe it would help. Maybe simply stateing if they plan to go fishing up there it might not be a good idea to plan on it because there aren’t going to be any liscened guides if they keep up with these rediculos rules.

This isn’t an agenda from eigther sides of the isle, its Intelectual idiotisy of the out of touch lawmakers who are good at wearing thier seats out by telling others what to do, can they even swim? Fingerprinting me and all those rediculos other things because I want to take someone fishing, they can row thier own boat not mine!

My guess is the “guides” who did get licensed are loving this. It eliminates competition for them which puts more money in their pocket. Both sides are after the almighty dollar and will do whatever it takes to get it.
I personally think it is ridiculous myself to have to go through all that hassle to take people out to fish or hunt.

I thought I had it bad getting my NREMT card and licensed through the state with all the background checks, fees, and classroom time.
Remind me to not want to guide in the future….ever

Please post all your concerns here. I will be meeting with the Refuge and Licensing committee aug 12. We’d also love to hear more about your concerns regarding licensed guides on the refuge. That is a another area of concern for guides. If you are guiding in refuge area you will have to apply for a permit.