Wolf de-listing imminent

Article today in the Star Tribune that indicates the federal de-listing of the Gray Wolf is imminent in the next several weeks from the Endangered Species List. It also states that there is unlikely to be a hunting/trapping season this fall because the DNR is taking a whole year to come up with a new management plan. Governor Walz has openly admitted that he is against a wolf hunting/trapping season for “trophy” status.

My opinion is that they are a game animal that needs to be controlled, just like anything else. The DNR is capable of managing a lottery-quota capped season. What I disagree with is why some people are against it because they view it as a “trophy” hunt and when you harvest one, you don’t eat it. Well what do you think all of the coyote hunters are doing? Eating the coyotes they trap or hunt? And let’s be honest, a lot of deer hunters are after horns too, not the meat. So does that make them trophy hunters too?

Here is the article
http://www.startribune.com/anderson-minnesota-s-path-isn-t-so-clear-when-wolves-are-delisted/568529752/

Of course he would think that, he’s a lib #1, #2 his liet.gov. is a native herself. Wolves are sacred animals and to be killed and stuffed on a wall isnt a good thing for them.

If you read between the lines he left the door open for population management, which will still allow you trophy guys to shoot something

This is good. I think the DNR should set a plan in action and leave the politicos out of it. Politicians and special interest groups are what has held up the population control which has been needed for years. They should take a back seat to this issue.

I’m ready for a new fur hat. Open up the hunting season !

I’ll throw some gas on this fire. I’ve never understood the allure of killing big game animals. I don’t buy the population control argument. Let the population of deer and wolves balance naturally.

Fire away….

Matt Moen wrote:

I’ll throw some gas on this fire. I’ve never understood the allure of killing big game animals. I don’t buy the population control argument. Let the population of deer and wolves balance naturally

Hah-I hope your kidding

Matt Moen wrote:

I’ll throw some gas on this fire. I’ve never understood the allure of killing big game animals. I don’t buy the population control argument. Let the population of deer and wolves balance naturally.

Fire away….

Wolves really can’t occupy any more territory than they already have. So there’s nothing to keep deer in check in places where wolves can’t live (like the entire southern half of the state). Your argument may have some merit in northern MN where they both happen to live though.

Tom Sawvell wrote:

This is good. I think the DNR should set a plan in action and leave the politicos out of it. Politicians and special interest groups are what has held up the population control which has been needed for years. They should take a back seat to this issue.

And the same could be true with cormorants/pelicans,and possibly herons.Stinky birds that gobble up resources and spread parasites.

Matt Moen wrote:

I’ll throw some gas on this fire. I’ve never understood the allure of killing big game animals.

Because they taste good.

In my opinion they are a predator that needs to be controlled. Ask a rancher what he thinks of them when he finds a calf with his hind-end ate out. They kill just for the sport of it, and I think a rancher should be able to do the same.
WKW

gimruis wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Matt Moen wrote:</div>
I’ll throw some gas on this fire. I’ve never understood the allure of killing big game animals. I don’t buy the population control argument. Let the population of deer and wolves balance naturally.

Fire away….

Wolves really can’t occupy any more territory than they already have. So there’s nothing to keep deer in check in places where wolves can’t live (like the entire southern half of the state). Your argument may have some merit in northern MN where they both happen to live though.

I always think of this as a northern mn thing. Wolves or packs occupy a territory enough to satisfy their needs for food. Food is scarce, wolf population declines and vice versa.

I know it’s not quite that simple but wolf populations won’t grow out of check. Maybe short term imbalances but we see that with all game populations.

I’m not against a limited hunt but I don’t know if it’s necessary.

Well if anyone shoots one with very young pups let me know i would love to have another one.

Matt Moen wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>gimruis wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Matt Moen wrote:</div>
I’ll throw some gas on this fire. I’ve never understood the allure of killing big game animals. I don’t buy the population control argument. Let the population of deer and wolves balance naturally.

Fire away….

Wolves really can’t occupy any more territory than they already have. So there’s nothing to keep deer in check in places where wolves can’t live (like the entire southern half of the state). Your argument may have some merit in northern MN where they both happen to live though.

I always think of this as a northern mn thing. Wolves or packs occupy a territory enough to satisfy their needs for food. Food is scarce, wolf population declines and vice versa.

I know it’s not quite that simple but wolf populations won’t grow out of check. Maybe short term imbalances but we see that with all game populations.

I’m not against a limited hunt but I don’t know if it’s necessary.

Wolves occupy a territory, kill/eat what’s around and move. Lots of times they don’t even eat what they kill. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong but I would prefer to eat that dead deer over letting it rot.

Ask the half dozen residents in isanti county that had their dogs killed by wolves and see if they would like a hunt. These were not small dogs either….

For most hunters it’s fun to kill game. If it benefits the species as well then win win.

Angler II wrote:

Wolves occupy a territory, kill/eat what’s around and move. Lots of times they don’t even eat what they kill. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong but I would prefer to eat that dead deer over letting it rot.

Ask the half dozen residents in isanti county that had their dogs killed by wolves and see if they would like a hunt. These were not small dogs either….

The issue is always when humans encroach on wildlife territories. Sure, the major urban areas…we’ve already eliminated most the wildlife except maybe for birds. But then introducing cats, we’ve put a good hurt on birds too.

Far away from the tallest buildings there’s always been the “man against beast” that continue to wage war. Man always win because animals still haven’t figured out how to hold a gun and shoot back.

Back in the good old days we won the war against the buffalo (North American Bison) shooting millions of them to near extinction. Or was the war against buffalo just a covert operation to eliminate the Indians?

This strategy was mimicked by the Germans in WW2. They learned from their migrating ancestors that if you eliminate the food supply and other valuable resources, you can starve and have the enemy submit and ultimately capitulate.

They shifted their focus of rather than face the British Royal Navy directly, they deployed U-boats to shoot as many merchant boats supplying their enemy, thereby killing innocents they had no direct reason to eliminate.

Some would suggest this was a cowardly approach to a “fair” fight and this was another repeating of history that was not learned from the previous century in America.

Anyone understand the parable here?

Friday night fun…

Our dear Governor Walz will form a panel to study how to integrate Wolves into pre-school settings. For a mere $100 million his study will show that the Wolves were in fact capable of leaving the pre-preschoolers alone after their stomachs were full. So, a state funded feeding program and educational program targeted at Wolves will prove they are mis-understood. Feed them and they will become as tame as your Yellow Lab.

Angler II wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Matt Moen wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>gimruis wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Matt Moen wrote:</div>
I’ll throw some gas on this fire. I’ve never understood the allure of killing big game animals. I don’t buy the population control argument. Let the population of deer and wolves balance naturally.

Fire away….

Wolves really can’t occupy any more territory than they already have. So there’s nothing to keep deer in check in places where wolves can’t live (like the entire southern half of the state). Your argument may have some merit in northern MN where they both happen to live though.

I always think of this as a northern mn thing. Wolves or packs occupy a territory enough to satisfy their needs for food. Food is scarce, wolf population declines and vice versa.

I know it’s not quite that simple but wolf populations won’t grow out of check. Maybe short term imbalances but we see that with all game populations.

I’m not against a limited hunt but I don’t know if it’s necessary.

Wolves occupy a territory, kill/eat what’s around and move. Lots of times they don’t even eat what they kill. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong but I would prefer to eat that dead deer over letting it rot.

Ask the half dozen residents in isanti county that had their dogs killed by wolves and see if they would like a hunt. These were not small dogs either….

I’d love to harvest a wolf someday and even see a limited, but regular season managed by the state. However, the argument of needing to kill wolves because they kill domesticated cattle, dogs, etc inside their territory is dumb at best. There’s an obvious risk to owning domesticated animals in wolf territory or taking them to it. I’m guessing these dogs weren’t killed in their garage. What do people think will happen? The ultimate idiotic argument is when dogs hunting/running animals in the woods are killed. Sad? Maybe. The best reason we can come up with to hunt wolves? No.

buckybadger wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Angler II wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Matt Moen wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>gimruis wrote:</div>

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Matt Moen wrote:</div>
I’ll throw some gas on this fire. I’ve never understood the allure of killing big game animals. I don’t buy the population control argument. Let the population of deer and wolves balance naturally.

Fire away….

Wolves really can’t occupy any more territory than they already have. So there’s nothing to keep deer in check in places where wolves can’t live (like the entire southern half of the state). Your argument may have some merit in northern MN where they both happen to live though.

I always think of this as a northern mn thing. Wolves or packs occupy a territory enough to satisfy their needs for food. Food is scarce, wolf population declines and vice versa.

I know it’s not quite that simple but wolf populations won’t grow out of check. Maybe short term imbalances but we see that with all game populations.

I’m not against a limited hunt but I don’t know if it’s necessary.

Wolves occupy a territory, kill/eat what’s around and move. Lots of times they don’t even eat what they kill. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong but I would prefer to eat that dead deer over letting it rot.

Ask the half dozen residents in isanti county that had their dogs killed by wolves and see if they would like a hunt. These were not small dogs either….

I’d love to harvest a wolf someday and even see a limited, but regular season managed by the state. However, the argument of needing to kill wolves because they kill domesticated cattle, dogs, etc inside their territory is dumb at best. There’s an obvious risk to owning domesticated animals in wolf territory or taking them to it. I’m guessing these dogs weren’t killed in their garage. What do people think will happen? The ultimate idiotic argument is when dogs hunting/running animals in the woods are killed. Sad? Maybe. The best reason we can come up with to hunt wolves? No.

Have wolves in your area Bucky? A dog? If so, ever let it out in the yard on a chain? That’s where these dogs were when they were killed…South if Isanti…

Ever seen one on the hoof? Chasing deer? Watch your hunting area go from a high density of deer to almost none?

Easy for you to say that our neighbors cattle getting killed is a dumb argument when you don’t pay for them.

Dutchboy wrote:

Our dear Governor Walz will form a panel to study how to integrate Wolves into pre-school settings. For a mere $100 million his study will show that the Wolves were in fact capable of leaving the pre-preschoolers alone after their stomachs were full. So, a state funded feeding program and educational program targeted at Wolves will prove they are mis-understood. Feed them and they will become as tame as your Yellow Lab.

this is so true it hurts

Have wolves in your area Bucky? A dog? If so, ever let it out in the yard on a chain? That’s where these dogs were when they were killed…South if Isanti…

Ever seen one on the hoof? Chasing deer? Watch your hunting area go from a high density of deer to almost none?

Easy for you to say that our neighbors cattle getting killed is a dumb argument when you don’t pay for them.

[/quote]

So you want to kill the wolves because they kill the deer that you want to hunt? You do see the flaw in this logic, right?

People that own cattle and animals where there are predators know the risks.

If you just want to shoot a wolf admit it but your arguments for it are thin.

If hunters want an open wolf season stop trying to position it as a herd control, saving cattle and dogs, etc. It’s a sport and trophy hunt. That’s what it is. There is nothing wrong with that and it’s easier to argue the population can sustain a sport hunt then saying we’re saving all the helpless cows and puppies.

Matt Moen wrote:

It’s a sport and trophy hunt. That’s what it is. There is nothing wrong with that….

This is where the statement should stop. Its no different than you going to the Caribbean to target big fish. I’m sure that in any given season quite a few of those big fish get kept with nothing more than a mount on a wall in mind. Not unlike you, some people chose to prefer a certain species. What the motivation is purely personal. Have you considered that there may be people of find it disgusting to hook and fight a big fish only to release it in a weakened state and fall prey to sharks? It happens.

I think the state could manage a limited quota lottery hunting or trapping season without affecting the population.

Matt Moen wrote:

Have wolves in your area Bucky? A dog? If so, ever let it out in the yard on a chain? That’s where these dogs were when they were killed…South if Isanti…

Ever seen one on the hoof? Chasing deer? Watch your hunting area go from a high density of deer to almost none?

Easy for you to say that our neighbors cattle getting killed is a dumb argument when you don’t pay for them.

So you want to kill the wolves because they kill the deer that you want to hunt? You do see the flaw in this logic, right?

People that own cattle and animals where there are predators know the risks.

If you just want to shoot a wolf admit it but your arguments for it are thin.

If hunters want an open wolf season stop trying to position it as a herd control, saving cattle and dogs, etc. It’s a sport and trophy hunt. That’s what it is. There is nothing wrong with that and it’s easier to argue the population can sustain a sport hunt then saying we’re saving all the helpless cows and puppies.
[/quote]

Exactly.

Matt Moen wrote:

Let the population of deer and wolves balance naturally.

The problem Matt is that nothing about today’s environment is natural.

Minnesota’s environment has been altered almost completely multiple times since European settlement began. Almost nothing about what we consider our natural environment today actually is natural.

Instead, what we have are wild animals adapting to an artificial environment where currently every species except a very few like wolves are managed.

All I want is for wolves to be under a management plan like every species from squirrels to deer.

Also, were treading on a slippery slope when we start implying that the persuit of wild animals must be justified by criteria that we all agree on. If we go down that road muskie or bass fishing immediately falls under the “trophy hunting” umbrella.

Grouse

Matt Moen wrote:

Have wolves in your area Bucky? A dog? If so, ever let it out in the yard on a chain? That’s where these dogs were when they were killed…South if Isanti…

Ever seen one on the hoof? Chasing deer? Watch your hunting area go from a high density of deer to almost none?

Easy for you to say that our neighbors cattle getting killed is a dumb argument when you don’t pay for them.

So you want to kill the wolves because they kill the deer that you want to hunt? You do see the flaw in this logic, right?

People that own cattle and animals where there are predators know the risks.

If you just want to shoot a wolf admit it but your arguments for it are thin.

If hunters want an open wolf season stop trying to position it as a herd control, saving cattle and dogs, etc. It’s a sport and trophy hunt. That’s what it is. There is nothing wrong with that and it’s easier to argue the population can sustain a sport hunt then saying we’re saving all the helpless cows and puppies.
[/quote]

Do you guys have wolves in your hunting areas? Do you hunt? I didn’t see an answer?

I hunt in the heart of wolf country in far NE MN. In over 30 deer seasons, up there, since 1989, I have seen them about half a dozen times while hunting. When we lived in the area for 10 years we saw them often on the highway often, in our yard once, on our road several times, a couple times grouse hunting, etc. etc..

They seem to be more easily seen while not hunting, but when in the deep woods hunting, they are pretty crafty at avoiding being seen.

I don’t have interest in harvesting one myself, but wouldn’t mind a yearly open season for those that do. My guess is that the success rate would not be very high, but for those that want to take one, it would be considered a trophy by many.

Angler II wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Matt Moen wrote:</div>
Have wolves in your area Bucky? A dog? If so, ever let it out in the yard on a chain? That’s where these dogs were when they were killed…South if Isanti…

Ever seen one on the hoof? Chasing deer? Watch your hunting area go from a high density of deer to almost none?

Easy for you to say that our neighbors cattle getting killed is a dumb argument when you don’t pay for them.

So you want to kill the wolves because they kill the deer that you want to hunt? You do see the flaw in this logic, right?

People that own cattle and animals where there are predators know the risks.

If you just want to shoot a wolf admit it but your arguments for it are thin.

If hunters want an open wolf season stop trying to position it as a herd control, saving cattle and dogs, etc. It’s a sport and trophy hunt. That’s what it is. There is nothing wrong with that and it’s easier to argue the population can sustain a sport hunt then saying we’re saving all the helpless cows and puppies.

Do you guys have wolves in your hunting areas? Do you hunt? I didn’t see an answer?
[/quote]

No and yes. Not sure the relevance though.

Grouse, agreed on your points and that’s kinda my underlying argument too. One of the problems we have is everything is managed. We can manage wolves if we need to. But, the idea we absolutely have to isn’t something I buy into. Hunt for sport is fine…..hunt because we need to manage is a thin argument.

Just like I don’t buy into the fact we need to manage every trophy fishery either….

Angler II wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Matt Moen wrote:</div>
Have wolves in your area Bucky? A dog? If so, ever let it out in the yard on a chain? That’s where these dogs were when they were killed…South if Isanti…

Ever seen one on the hoof? Chasing deer? Watch your hunting area go from a high density of deer to almost none?

Easy for you to say that our neighbors cattle getting killed is a dumb argument when you don’t pay for them.

So you want to kill the wolves because they kill the deer that you want to hunt? You do see the flaw in this logic, right?

People that own cattle and animals where there are predators know the risks.

If you just want to shoot a wolf admit it but your arguments for it are thin.

If hunters want an open wolf season stop trying to position it as a herd control, saving cattle and dogs, etc. It’s a sport and trophy hunt. That’s what it is. There is nothing wrong with that and it’s easier to argue the population can sustain a sport hunt then saying we’re saving all the helpless cows and puppies.

Do you guys have wolves in your hunting areas? Do you hunt? I didn’t see an answer?
[/quote]

Do I hunt, Yes. Are there wolves here? No. I choose not to hunt in an area with wolves, so I don’t get your confusing argument.

If I chose to hunt in an area with wolves, I’d quickly come to realize and accept that the deer population may be impacted, dogs could be in danger in the woods or rural areas, and that I’m the one recreating in a wolf territory.

I want a closely managed season on wolves and would probably even put in to pursue one. I do not want to hear sob stories about domesticated animals (dogs, cattle) being killed in wolf territory though. Those living and hunting there made that choice. If they’re oblivious to those risks then it’s on them.

Bucky had a distant neighbor 3 miles from my house his dog was dragged off his front porch and killed by a wolf ! Another neighbor 1 mile from my house had 2 Alpacas killed by 3 wolves . Neighbor across the street saw a significant drop in milk production when wolves were harassing them ! A neighbor to the west lost a heifer to wolves ! The fact is these are dangerous animals and should be treated as such. I expect to be relatively safe on my property , god forbid a wolf attacks one of my grandchildren! A Montana biologist said its a matter of time this is going to happen. I don’t blame the wolf ,i blame lack of managing a resource ! For pete’s sake we manage every critter out there, except wolves are the scared cow .

Bucky 25 years ago northern Wis had very few wolves ! They killed were by my farming ancestors ! They were a direct threat to their livestock in the late 1800,s early 1900,s when my great grandfather settled in northern wis there lively hood was impacted greatly by wolves they killed everyone they could . There was a bounty on them in the 50,s! They were not doing this for fun , they were doing it because they worked hard to grow their stock and were not going to to let a predator take what they worked for . Wolves were pretty much gone from the area until efforts to reintroduce them . They are opportunist they kill to survive does not matter if its a deer or a small child it’s just food to them . That being said i don’t want them in my backyard period !