Keeping trophy walleye

I have kept a total of three large fish in my short life of fishing one was a 31″ that I tried to revive in the water but she wasn’t doing well so I put her in the live well to help revive her but in a half hours time she was gone . The other two were kept in a kill tournament and are on the wall now. But even now if I caught a 15lb er it would go back. As long as the fish is doing well they most always go back.

I took my grandfather out fishing last summer and he is used to keeping everything he catches for the dinner plate. I informed him that anything over 20″ goes back and by the end of the day we caught six fish all over 22″ and the biggest he caught was 28.5″ and they were all released. He still talkes about it as one of the best days he had on the water and the last time I talked to him he said he caught and released a 27″ walleye. So yo can teach an old dog new tricks.

It makes sense that a fast-growing river 27″ walleye is the most fertile 27″ walleye around. A 27″ old-as-the-hills walleye in an infertile lake might be completely sterile … but as I said earlier, I still want it swimmin’.

John

James,
your going to want to ask for Jon Hoxmeier, he is the large lake specialist and one heck of a nice guy. I was fortunate enough to help out with his fall gill netting on pepin one year.

Thanks Jerad. Steve Vick suggested I call and ask for him specifically as well. I will follow up on this tomorrow as it is a topic I’m deeply interested in.

LazyEyez, James, You guys aren’t giving ole George a hard time out there are you????? Hey Mike, you’ll have to ask Dave about the time he and I were fishing a wing dam and George came around. He wasn’t too happy, it must have been one of his wing dams. That’s not much of a story unless you know Dave. Lazy, I’m sure you know Dave just couldn’t pass up an opportunity like that. We had a fun hour or so playing cat and mouse.

As a fishing guide myself I make sure that clients and myself discuss this very issue before we even get in the boat. It doesn’t bother me if someone wants to mount a true trophy walleye. However the time to define “trophy” is not when it’s flopping around in the boat. Also the large majority of clients that I have are in favor of cpr anyway.

James,

I have had this dilema going on in my head about clients keeping large fish for a while. I thought I would try to get other peoples perspective on this subject. I never expected this kind of response. That’s why I love this site.

I obtained a great deal of information on Mississippi walleye and sauger from John Pitlo over the years. John had been a frequent guest speaker at the walleye club meetings and we had meetings with John and several other DNR personel in getting some of the changes made to help the walleye/sauger fishery on the river. John is and has been a true asset to the fishery in the river.

The walleye in the river do grow at an incredible rate compared to the walleye in our northern lakes. I have been told that these fish hit the 15″ minimum length in their 3rd season. The Iowa DNR set the protected slot from 20″ to 27″ to protect the prime brood stock in the river and I am all for it. I do not know that all female walleye over 27″ produce sterile eggs but that is the size that the DNR determined were no longer prime breeders. There is a term that they use for the large fish with eggs that don’t produce but I cannot recall what it is. We were told that when the females that 7 to 8 Lb size that many no longer produce fertile eggs. I don’t know exactly why this happens.

I do not keep fish over 20″ in length and haven’t for many years. I do some guiding and I have always promoted catch photo and release but have not made it a policy but I like the idea of doing so. It helps now that we have the protected slot on pools 12 on down river.

My hat is off to the DNR for the changes they have made to help the walleye and sauger fishery on this part of the river. Unknown to many people is the stocking of walleye that is done. Every year there are thousands of fry stocked in the river from the hatchery at Genoa. Many of these are put in pool 9 because the hatchery is on pool 9. The last few years the Iowa DNR has been getting some of these fry and stocking them in pools 10 & 11. Then there is an intensive stocking program down on pool 14 that has been going on for many years. The Cordova nuclear plant has been privately rearing walleye every year and stocking most of them in pool 14. They have also stocked some of these fish in pool 13 and for the past 3 years the walleye club in conjunction with the Iowa DNR has been getting thousands of the fingerlings and stocking them in pool 12 at Dubuque. Some of these fish should have hit the 15″ minimum length already. We caught several of these fish over the past couple of years. They all have a double bar brand on one side so they are easy to spot.

I will continue to CPR the large walleye I catch. Last year alone I released dozens of walleye over 20″. Hopefully I will keep catching these same fish as they grow larger. Something to look forward to in the years to come.

Eyehunter

I just had a very nice conversation with Mr. Hoxmeirer, Large Lake Specialist in Lake City, MN (responsible for Lake Pepin & Pool 4) about this issue. He stated in no uncertain terms… big fish spawn successfully and actually are likely to produce MORE viable eggs in relationship to their body mass than smaller fish.

I will be stopping down to his office ASAP to pick up some info to back this and will share it here. It will likely be next wek before I can get it done… but I will do it and post it here.

I will be calling the IA DNR next for their take on this and will report back.

I have to throw in a little “controversial logic” in here, as I have a huge question to the relation of fish and reproduction.

Since all mammals go “sterile” as they increase in age (women, cattle, dogs, whatever). Could old, adult female fish become the same way?

It is known to be unhealthy for a woman in her 50s and even 60s to bear children. There are many health risk to the child. She may be able to physically bear a child; however there are known health factors that can come into play. This is not ALWAYS the case, but it is common.

So, with that said…….do fish go into “menopause”? Even though they create eggs, once they reach a certain age, do the eggs become void of being able to be fertilized?

So, the real question does not apply so much as size, as it does age!!! Yes, I comparing apples to oranges, but both grow on trees. I’m not a biologist, but it is a fair question!

James;

You wrote your post as I was drafting mine. Can you find out if a fish will ever become “sterile” due to age?

James,

Thanks for your research. It will be interesting to see what you find out from the Iowa DNR. It is the Bellevue station where the river research is based I believe. That is the office that John works out of. I do know that the Iowa DNR has done extensive research on Mississippi walleye over the years. Every year the DNR does creel counts at both Bellevue and Guttenburg. They also do their shocking in the fall at Bellevue and Guttenburg. This is how they determine how good of a spawn there was. Over the years I have been very impressed by the amount of data and statistics the DNR has compiled on walleye and sauger. Everything from fry mortality rates to determining what conditions allow for the best hatches. The DNR here is great at working with the people that use the resource. They hold public meetings and seek input from the public. While I do not agree 100% with some of their steps I can rest assured that they have done the research before implementing any changes.

Eyehunter

I just spoke with Brian Brecka, WI DNR Fisheries Biologist, about this very thing. His answer was no. Life is hard and mortality rates high for walleyes in the river. They die long before they ever would slide into some kind of “golden years.”

An individual fish may be sterile due to some injury or other issue but I cannot find anyone that feels an older fish cannot spawn successfully. Brian stated he has reviewed the data turned out by a fisheries management panel that includes Pitlo. He is not aware of any information to come out that would support the theory that big walleyes do not spawn successfully.

I will keep trying to raise someone at Bellevue. Right now they’re not answering the phone.

Well my calling around is done for the day as the guys in IA are all off to a fisheries panel or something and I can’t raise anyone. I do have a call coming back in from a biologist in charge of the hatchery in Rathbun be his expertise will focus on lake fish and may or may not be relevant.

I hope to get with Pitlo over the next coupld days and will report back.

If you can’t get ahold of John at Bellevue you may want to try Scott Gritters (sp?) at the Guttenburg station. Scott is also a fisheries biologist and he works with John on a great deal of the research. I would call but since I am the guy that brought the sterile eggs thing in the first place it is wise that someone else does the research. I do know that not everybody agrees with some of the research the Iowa DNR has done over the years. Iowa got the Illinois DNR to go along with their recommendations but could not get the Wisconsin DNR to get on board as the Wisconsin DNR did not see a numbers problem on the river. Wisconsin would only agree to close the tailwater below Dam 11 at Dubuque. While not everyone will agree with some of the Iowa DNR’s conclusions they have been doing research on river walleye for many, many years. If I got it wrong about large female walleye producing sterile eggs then there are about 40 other walleye club members that are also misinformed.

Again, thanks for your research.

Eyehunter

I already did try the Bellevue station and their biologist was out as well. I’m going to send Pitlo an e-mail and see if he responds… he has in the past when I’ve communicated with him.

I work next door to the fish hatchery on Pool 14 and have helped the biologists collect females in the spring. All large females are kept for stripping (and then released). I would say the majority of the eggs collected each year are from fish over 7 pounds. Some are collected over 10 pounds every year. They have very successful hatch rates! Very few eggs fail to hatch out.
RLK

Thanks RLK. I will still attempt to get an official position on this from a biologist with the IA DNR but I’m very confident from the discussions I’ve had today and the reading I’ve done that the larger walleyes are actually some of the most viable spawners.

Where would the confusion come from?

Large walleyes make up a small part of the entire spawning population for the simple fact that they are rare due to natural mortality, etc.

From a biologist’s perspective, protecting the walleye population means putting in place regulations or suggested personal guidelines that protect a large portion of the spawning population… not the rare BIG walleyes we all dream of catching.

This doesn’t mean that on an indivudal basis that a 10 lb walleye is incapable of spawning, on the contrary, that big females is likely to produce more eggs and higher quality eggs than a 3 lb female. But when the total mass of all 10 lb walleyes is compared against the mass from 3lb fish, the contribution from the 10 lbrs looks small. This of course gives no consideration to genetics which may or may not be enormously important to growing more big walleyes in the future.

The reason to keep fish is because you want to eat them right? So what’s the best size to eat? 15″ to 18″ are the best eating. If your keeping them because you want to impress your friends and family, take a picture and release the fish, the impact is the same and someone else has the oppurtunity to replicate this process. In the 90’s I caught two walleyes over 9 lbs, since then I have caught 7 over 9 lbs. Conservation pays, and I thank all of you who are committed to preserving our fisheries.

James, it’s great to hear that those big fish ARE productive spawners. That’s what it sounds like anyway. I have always let the big ones go because I believed this to be true. I think people need to be educated about this because I know of ALOT of people that believe those big fish don’t spawn. Not saying you someone shouldn’t keep a big one if they want, but, know that those big girls have the genetics to pass on so more pigs can be caught.

Even if they weren’t spawners anymore I don’t see the porpose in killing them. The 10 pounder you release may be the 11 pounder that I catch this Fall–and you can bet she will go back to be someone elses BIG fish. On Pool 4 if you catch a 10 pounder you can bet it has been released a few times and that is the beauty of it. You can share the great feeling with others by slipping it back over the side.

You nailed it there Redneck… James – try [email protected] – he should get back ahold of you (maybe it is Jon). He no longer works out of the Bellvue station – switched to the management side somewhat recently… but the guys there now are great too 563-872-4976 is the number I have – I went to ISU for Fisheries and Wildlife biology with the fellow that took over Johns spot – but Denny or anyone else who answers the phone should be able to help if you call there as well. To reach Scott Gritters at G’burg you can try 563-252-1156 – that’s the number I have for there… am really interested to hear what you learn – I heard second-hand that another fellow graduate who manages a trout hatchery at Elkader now – told my little bro the same story about big girls being infertile years ago when I released a big girl – so would like to here the final answer. I will say what you have stated so far just backs up my happiness in releasing that 12.3 a few Sundays back… like others including redneck said – if somone can catch her again – then I’m sure it will be just another in a string of folks who have released her along the way. Chuckles

I agree with you. I have dreamed of a 10 pounder for a long time. I have released every ‘eye I ever caught over 23″ and hope I do the right thing and release the 10 pounder when and if that day comes.

Hey Chuckles,
My hats off to you for releasing that big fish! It shows a great respect the fish as well as others who might catch her later. Hopefully others will follow suit and she will continue to swim. My time for a truly huge fish has not come yet, but when, and if it does, I will surely do the same. A big “thank you” to ALL of you who have released a big fish!!!

Good luck to all!!!!

D. Andrews

Anyone tried contacting the hatchery in Genoa about the spawners over 27″ being sterile?

Here is a quote from Critical Concepts Walleye Fundamentals. “Factors that affect hatching succes and survival of young walleyes include water quality, river flows, wave action,turbulance, siltation,spring water temperatures,availability of zooplankton, and small fish to feed young walleyes, the abundance of preators on young walleyes (including cannibalism)and competition for food. Studies suggest that the number of adult spawners has little effect on the success of a year class compared to the many enviromental factors.”

If the number of adult spawners aren’t a big factor in successful spawnning, I don’t believe size would be a factor either. There are many reasons to release big fish. But I don’t think egg fertility is one of them.

Hey folks,
Just posed the question to Bryan Hayes, Iowa DNR fisheries biologist from Manchester – he stopped by and I had to ask his opinion – he flat out stated that they strip eggs from fish over 10 – 11 pounds every year when they go up to net fish at Clear Lake. He could see NO reason why they would be infertile. Sounds like from the previous poster that we are still at the whims of mom nature to bring us the proper weather to make it all work out for good spawns. Chuckles

I have not heard back from Pitlo in reply to my e-mail. If he replies, I will post his comments here when and if he does but I think we’ve heard from enough qualified people from enough states and backgrounds to make a call on this one.

This wasn’t a thread about how to pull of a successful spawn. It was about the value of a large walleye as a spawner. There are other reasons beyond this one to release a large fish but there were some major questions regarding the validity of the statement we’ve all heard over and over… “big fish are infertile.” EVERYTHING I’ve found, read or been told by the biologists I’ve been able to contact completely contradicts this theory. There’s some thinking that they may be the BEST spawners.

As the myth busters would say… this myth has been BUSTED!

Just to add another opinion to the list of myth busters, I spoke a few years ago to one of the guys who worked on the stocking program run by the Cordova Nuclear station here. He told me that they did a viability study, and found that, while in some of the large fish the eggs where fertilized and hatched at a lesser percentage than the 2-7# fish, they more than made up for the shortcoming with sheer volume of eggs produced.

His explanation for the occasional lower viability was that some of these fish where very old, while others where in their prime at the 8-12# range. Some fish may only be 7# at an old age, while others keep growing well beyond. Genetics of the big fish is my major reason for releasing these fish. Keeping the gentics of these fish in the reproductive arena means much more to me than a dust collector on my wall!

John, you are right on and AMEN!!!!!!!!!

OH Boy!!! You guys cover a lot of topics in one post. First let me address the question of older female walleye. I have not completed any research on older vs younger female walleye and their egg production – so I’m quoting from other sources. From the publication: A Synopsis of Biological Data on the Walleye (Stizostedion v. vitreum) by P.J. Colby, R.E. McNicol, and R.A.Ryder. Contribution No. 77-13 of the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources, Fishery Research Section, Maple, Ontario LOJ IEO. I quote “Deason (1933) and Carlander (1945) have also reported that some older female walleye may be sterile or fail to spawn annually.” Obviously these are older works but this publication was completed in 1980 – so I don’t know if there is anything more recent. As to large old females having eggs that have a likely chance of producting larger and older walleye – I an unaware of any research in that area with respect to walleye. I do know the state of Texas has tried that with Largemouth Bass – they retained the laregest females they could (those they collected as well as angler caught fish) and spawned only the largest of the males they had to the largest females in order to produce superior bass. I have not seen any results from that work.

As far as growth rates – most of you are right on. Walleye in the Miss. River have excellent growth rates. In age & growth studies we have completed from Pools 11 and 13, we expect the fastest growing individuals of a year class to reach the 15 inch minimum length limit in their 3rd summer of life – that means they are only 2+ years old. This phenominal growth is due to the abundance of food, generally gizzard shad, but in case shad have a bad year, there are 20+ species of minnow & darters, 10 species of suckers, not to mention young-of-the year (YOY) freshwater drum (FWD)(which I believe they feed on heavily in the fall – I have had numbers of FWD YOY garped up in my live-well during the fall), as well as catfish YOY (remember – they also like willow cats!!!).
I hope this clears up some of the confusion.
John