Just seen in the new MN. regulations that “nitro” powders are not legal for the muzzle loader season. My question is What is it? I use pyrodex which is legal, Are people using regular smokeless powders in their in-line muzzle loaders? Thanks for any input on setting me straight on this one. 
I wouldn’t try it. My understanding is that Black Powder is an explosive, while modern smokeless powder is a propellant. Black Powder is an explosive which means that it always burns at the same rate, whether it’s in the chamber of a gun or in a pile on the floor. The buring rate determines chamber presure. With Black Powder you’re going to have the same chamber pressure with a wide range of charges. If you put too much Black Powder in your gun all you get is a messy barrel. Smokeless powder is a different animal. The rate it burns at depends on the pressure it’s under. If you had a pile of smokeless powder sitting on the floor it would burn but not explode. If smokless powder is in the chamber of a gun, the pressure create by burning some of it makes the rest of it burn even faster. That’s why even 5% too much powder is a big mistake for reloaders.
I’d stick to Black Powder or one of the recommended replacements like Pyrodex.
Rootski
I wouldn’t try it. My understanding is that Black Powder is an explosive, while modern smokeless powder is a propellant. Black Powder is an explosive which means that it always burns at the same rate, whether it’s in the chamber of a gun or in a pile on the floor. The buring rate determines chamber presure. With Black Powder you’re going to have the same chamber pressure with a wide range of charges. If you put too much Black Powder in your gun all you get is a messy barrel. Smokeless powder is a different animal. The rate it burns at depends on the pressure it’s under. If you had a pile of smokeless powder sitting on the floor it would burn but not explode. If smokless powder is in the chamber of a gun, the pressure create by burning some of it makes the rest of it burn even faster. That’s why even 5% too much powder is a big mistake for reloaders.
I’d stick to Black Powder or one of the recommended replacements like Pyrodex.
Rootski
To answer your question PH…it appears to be…yes!
Quote:
Several smokeless powders, also called nitro powders because their base ingredient was a derivative of nitroglycerin, were independently developed in Europe in the mid-1800s, including one by Alfred Nobel, the father of both dynamite and the Nobel Peace Prize. California Powder Works is credited with producing the first smokeless powder in the U.S. in 1893, but its use in sporting ammunition lagged behind military applications. Smokeless powder, unlike black powder, technically does not explode when ignited, but burns rapidly, releasing expanding gases. But gunpowder development was only one step to creating cartridges. First, muzzleloading firearms needed to be replaced by breechloaders.
To answer your question PH…it appears to be…yes!
Quote:
Several smokeless powders, also called nitro powders because their base ingredient was a derivative of nitroglycerin, were independently developed in Europe in the mid-1800s, including one by Alfred Nobel, the father of both dynamite and the Nobel Peace Prize. California Powder Works is credited with producing the first smokeless powder in the U.S. in 1893, but its use in sporting ammunition lagged behind military applications. Smokeless powder, unlike black powder, technically does not explode when ignited, but burns rapidly, releasing expanding gases. But gunpowder development was only one step to creating cartridges. First, muzzleloading firearms needed to be replaced by breechloaders.
Smokeless, Nitro, is illegal this year. Thats what I understand it as.
big g 
Smokeless, Nitro, is illegal this year. Thats what I understand it as.
big g
Brian,
I hate to disagree with you but I think we need to be very cautious about this. We don’t want any bad reports…..I’m not saying that nitro based powders can’t be used in a gun, I’m saying I think it’s a misapplication to use it in a muzzleloader.
There are too many variables with a muzzleloader to contend with. Patch thickness, ball size, seating pressure, and barrel cleanliness will vary from shot to shot. And they’ll all affect chamber pressure. As I said earlier a 5% over charge when reloading modern smokeless powder cartridges is a big deal. I’d stick to Black Powder because you know you can’t blow the gun up that way.
Rootski
(Still alive after years of shooting a .50 cal Hawken, a 12ga double barrel, and an 1860 Colt Army.)
Brian,
I hate to disagree with you but I think we need to be very cautious about this. We don’t want any bad reports…..I’m not saying that nitro based powders can’t be used in a gun, I’m saying I think it’s a misapplication to use it in a muzzleloader.
There are too many variables with a muzzleloader to contend with. Patch thickness, ball size, seating pressure, and barrel cleanliness will vary from shot to shot. And they’ll all affect chamber pressure. As I said earlier a 5% over charge when reloading modern smokeless powder cartridges is a big deal. I’d stick to Black Powder because you know you can’t blow the gun up that way.
Rootski
(Still alive after years of shooting a .50 cal Hawken, a 12ga double barrel, and an 1860 Colt Army.)
By no means would I think of using it, just never heard of anyone doing it, and thought it was kinda strange that they needed to put in the regulation. Just thought it was something new that came out and I missed it 
By no means would I think of using it, just never heard of anyone doing it, and thought it was kinda strange that they needed to put in the regulation. Just thought it was something new that came out and I missed it
Hah Root! We’ve never disagreed before why would we start now…?
I was answering his question…
Quote:
My question is What is it? I use pyrodex which is legal, Are people using regular smokeless powders in their in-line muzzle loaders?
If I recall, smokeless cartriges were being manufactured for in line muzzle loaders…and if that’s true..they are now not allowed.
See? Same page…differant paragraph! 
Hah Root! We’ve never disagreed before why would we start now…?
I was answering his question…
Quote:
My question is What is it? I use pyrodex which is legal, Are people using regular smokeless powders in their in-line muzzle loaders?
If I recall, smokeless cartriges were being manufactured for in line muzzle loaders…and if that’s true..they are now not allowed.
See? Same page…differant paragraph!
This must be what they call “violent agreement”, eh Brian? 
This must be what they call “violent agreement”, eh Brian?
Guess so…I wouldn’t ever recommend using smokeless or Nitro powders period..
I’ve been out of reloading for so long…I’ve heard they now have plastic shotgun shells…instead of paper ones!
Guess so…I wouldn’t ever recommend using smokeless or Nitro powders period..
I’ve been out of reloading for so long…I’ve heard they now have plastic shotgun shells…instead of paper ones!
Thanks all for your info, I’m well informed now. 
Thanks all for your info, I’m well informed now.
I think this all came about, because Savage came out with a model 10, awhile back, that tout’s the smokeless powder. Basically, it’s like using your cartridge rifle, only loading it in pieces. I looked at them last year, before buying my Thompson. I had a feeling Minnesota would outlaw them here. I made the right choice.
big g 
I think this all came about, because Savage came out with a model 10, awhile back, that tout’s the smokeless powder. Basically, it’s like using your cartridge rifle, only loading it in pieces. I looked at them last year, before buying my Thompson. I had a feeling Minnesota would outlaw them here. I made the right choice.
big g
Finally it all make sence 
Finally it all make sence
big G
I agree with you. They did this to keep hunters from using the Savage 110ML that can use smokeless powder. Darn glad I didn’t buy the one I was going to last fall as well. I picked the Encore as well.
big G
I agree with you. They did this to keep hunters from using the Savage 110ML that can use smokeless powder. Darn glad I didn’t buy the one I was going to last fall as well. I picked the Encore as well.
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