Concealed-carry backers insist on secrecy terms

  • cherilovell
    Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin
    Posts: 1495
    #209727

    Concealed-carry backers insist on secrecy terms

    By PATRICK MARLEY
    [email protected]
    Posted: March 17, 2006

    Madison – If a concealed-weapons bill makes its way into law in Wisconsin, people likely won’t be able to find out if their neighbors, co-workers or ex-spouses are packing guns.

    The two most recent versions of the bill that have made it through the Legislature had secrecy provisions. Both those bills cleared the Republican-led Legislature, but were vetoed by Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle. Lawmakers have pledged to push a new version forward after the November elections – with the secrecy measure intact.

    “When you’re talking about something that has the potential to kill another human being, that absolutely should be public,” said Rep. Jon Richards (D-Milwaukee), an opponent of the bill.

    “If we’re going to have concealed weapons as a society, I think we should be able to track who has them.”

    But advocates of concealed weapons say the provision is needed to maintain the privacy of permit-holders and to protect the public from criminals. Supporters say the law will work best if criminals do not know who is carrying concealed weapons because they will fear that any potential victim may be carrying a gun.

    State Sen. Dave Zien (R-Eau Claire), one of the bill’s authors, said crooks would go after people who don’t have permits if the state made public the names of people allowed to carry concealed weapons.

    “If I’m a criminal, I’m looking for an easy pushover to rob your wallet or plunder your home,” he said.

    But Peter Fox, executive director of the Wisconsin Newspaper Association, said Zien’s argument “doesn’t pass the common-sense test.”

    “It’s such a stretch that criminals would sit down with a database and pick and choose” who to target, Fox said.

    Fox’s group takes no position on whether concealed weapons should be legal, but opposes withholding the names of permit-holders. Fox noted that the state’s open records law says government information should be available unless there is a compelling reason to keep it from the public.

    “There is absolutely no good reason this information isn’t public information,” Fox said of the names of permit-holders.

    But Andrew Arulanandam, a spokesman for the National Rifle Association, said permit-holders have a “basic civil right to privacy.”

    “I don’t think it’s in anyone’s best interest for the names of these permit-holders to be made public,” he said.

    He said the “vast majority” of the 46 states with concealed-weapons laws do not make the names of permit-holders available.

    In the latest version of the bill, the state attorney general would have had to issue an annual report showing how many people applied for and received permits and how many permit-holders were convicted of drunken driving and other crimes.

    A call for full disclosure
    Zien said the reporting requirement would prove that permit-holders overwhelmingly follow the law, as gun-rights advocates have long contended.

    But Jeri Bonavia, executive director of the Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort, said newspapers and the general public would not be able to check the quality of the report by the attorney general unless the names were public.

    “I think they don’t want us to track what the permit-holders do,” Bonavia said. “The pro-gun lobby doesn’t want that information out there.”

    The Wisconsin Coalition Against Domestic Violence opposes the bill on the grounds that it would make women less safe. If the bill were to become law, women should be able to check if their estranged spouses or boyfriends acquire concealed-weapons permits, said the group’s policy director, Linda Mayfield.

    “To keep the names concealed is too scary,” said Mayfield, who ran the Milwaukee Women’s Center for more than a decade.

    Under the bill, people convicted of domestic violence or who have restraining orders against them for threatening behavior could not legally carry concealed weapons. But Mayfield said victims often are too afriad to press charges or to seek restraining orders.

    The Legislature has twice passed concealed-weapons bills in recent years. The Senate overrode both of Doyle’s vetoes, but the Assembly failed to do so by one vote in 2004 and two votes in January.

    Both of the bills were amended at the last minute to garner more support. The amendments further restricted where concealed weapons could be carried, but the secrecy provision went unchanged in both cases.

    Secrecy provision will be back
    Zien and others have promised to bring the bill back with the secrecy provision, saying they hope to add a few more supporters to their ranks in the Assembly. They also note both the Republicans running against Doyle – U.S. Rep. Mark Green of Green Bay and Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker – support the concealed-weapons bills.

    The secrecy measure “is one of the stronger provisions that we are very, very serious about keeping in,” Zien said.

    Zien said making the names public had been a problem in other states because permit-holders’ names were published in newspapers or on Web sites and that they were “barraged” with phone calls from opponents.

    The Journal Sentinel is among many newspapers across the country featuring stories this week designed to drive public discussion about why open government is important to everyone, not just to journalists

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59944
    #16359

    Quote:


    “doesn’t pass the common-sense test.”


    Show me the “list” of gun owners in WI today!

    Oh, I bet no one owns a gun in WI…now it makes sense!

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59944
    #432614

    Quote:


    “doesn’t pass the common-sense test.”


    Show me the “list” of gun owners in WI today!

    Oh, I bet no one owns a gun in WI…now it makes sense!

    Jason Sullivan
    Chippewa Falls, WI
    Posts: 1383
    #16360

    I wish I was fortunate enough to be surrounded in my neighborhood by screened law abiding citizens exercising their right to bear arms.

    That would be a good list to see. I could sleep easier at night.

    Jason Sullivan
    Chippewa Falls, WI
    Posts: 1383
    #432639

    I wish I was fortunate enough to be surrounded in my neighborhood by screened law abiding citizens exercising their right to bear arms.

    That would be a good list to see. I could sleep easier at night.

    farmboy1
    Mantorville, MN
    Posts: 3668
    #16361

    Good to see you around and posting again Catfishgirl.
    I don’t think criminals would go on a database and check for those who have a concealed gun permit, but I am afraid that “gun control nutcases” would look me up and harrass me

    The whole reasoning behind publishing the names makes very little sense, except to show the people with guns are the responsible ones. It takes some effort to get a concealed carry permit, effort that criminals will not take.

    Am Igoing to feel better knowing that Joe Blow down the street does not have a legal permit ?? Or am I going to feel better knowing Joe Blow has taken safety classes, applied for and received a permit after going through a criminal background check, and has a gun on his belt?? Makes a perfect argument to me.

    Lets make the criminals, criminals again, and stop making law abiding citizens bead people.

    farmboy1
    Mantorville, MN
    Posts: 3668
    #432641

    Good to see you around and posting again Catfishgirl.
    I don’t think criminals would go on a database and check for those who have a concealed gun permit, but I am afraid that “gun control nutcases” would look me up and harrass me

    The whole reasoning behind publishing the names makes very little sense, except to show the people with guns are the responsible ones. It takes some effort to get a concealed carry permit, effort that criminals will not take.

    Am Igoing to feel better knowing that Joe Blow down the street does not have a legal permit ?? Or am I going to feel better knowing Joe Blow has taken safety classes, applied for and received a permit after going through a criminal background check, and has a gun on his belt?? Makes a perfect argument to me.

    Lets make the criminals, criminals again, and stop making law abiding citizens bead people.

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #16364

    I guess I don’t care if I’m on some public data list showing I have a license to carry. As long as every other state licensed activity is also public.

    If this is one little sticking point blocking the passage of the law, I’d give them what they want in order to get the law passed.

    -J.

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #432664

    I guess I don’t care if I’m on some public data list showing I have a license to carry. As long as every other state licensed activity is also public.

    If this is one little sticking point blocking the passage of the law, I’d give them what they want in order to get the law passed.

    -J.

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59944
    #16366

    I hear what your saying Jon however it doesn’t make sense to publicly list people that have a “permit” as that does not mean they have a gun.

    Call me paranoid, but if a person takes this to the extreme…it would be very easy for “a” government to use a list like that in the wrong way.

    There’s no list of people that have guns now. Joe Blow down the street has a gun NOW! He’s not a threat to me.

    Actually…you kinda surprised my on your stance on this.(?)

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59944
    #432692

    I hear what your saying Jon however it doesn’t make sense to publicly list people that have a “permit” as that does not mean they have a gun.

    Call me paranoid, but if a person takes this to the extreme…it would be very easy for “a” government to use a list like that in the wrong way.

    There’s no list of people that have guns now. Joe Blow down the street has a gun NOW! He’s not a threat to me.

    Actually…you kinda surprised my on your stance on this.(?)

    cherilovell
    Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin
    Posts: 1495
    #16367

    Quote:


    Quote:


    “doesn’t pass the common-sense test.”


    Show me the “list” of gun owners in WI today!

    Oh, I bet no one owns a gun in WI…now it makes sense!


    Well, I own three guns (all legally I am add) and have been shooting since 1989. I would be happy if they passed a law a conceal and carry law here. The problem I would find with a list is that the thugs would know where they could find some weapons. The reason I posted this was I thought it was a artical a little to late to publish seeing as the conceal and carry law didn’t pass and won’t get another chance til the end of the year after elections – why, don’t think you could win the election if you are known to have passed the bill or that your for the bill?
    Ya, I know, time to start the bash on Catfishgirl again – they don’t call me a trouble maker for nothing you know.

    cherilovell
    Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin
    Posts: 1495
    #432734

    Quote:


    Quote:


    “doesn’t pass the common-sense test.”


    Show me the “list” of gun owners in WI today!

    Oh, I bet no one owns a gun in WI…now it makes sense!


    Well, I own three guns (all legally I am add) and have been shooting since 1989. I would be happy if they passed a law a conceal and carry law here. The problem I would find with a list is that the thugs would know where they could find some weapons. The reason I posted this was I thought it was a artical a little to late to publish seeing as the conceal and carry law didn’t pass and won’t get another chance til the end of the year after elections – why, don’t think you could win the election if you are known to have passed the bill or that your for the bill?
    Ya, I know, time to start the bash on Catfishgirl again – they don’t call me a trouble maker for nothing you know.

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #16370

    Minnesota keep a list of all permit holders and keeps stats on those names. Just not public info.

    Want a list of gun owners in the USA. Buy the mailing list from the NRA.

    -J.

    jon_jordan
    St. Paul, Mn
    Posts: 10908
    #432749

    Minnesota keep a list of all permit holders and keeps stats on those names. Just not public info.

    Want a list of gun owners in the USA. Buy the mailing list from the NRA.

    -J.

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