As long as we are held to these restrictions, the tribes should be held accountable too.
Strict enforcement of tribal netting is needed.
– 3 to 4 access points for netting operations staffed by MN DNR 24/7. (Or MN National Guard Troops)
– Spotters for every boat retrieving fish from nets to ensure all fish killed are counted towards allocations.
– All fish counted, measured and weighed. When allocation is hit, all netting stops for the year.
– Not tribal open water guiding.
-J.
I agree with almost everything you said there Will. I just don’t think the DNR has the ability/cajones to address the real problem. If they did, it would certainly lead to court cases. And if they did without their bosses approval (ultimately the Governor) they would be looking for new employment.
However, I don’t agree that 1 fish of a length that is very unlikely to find, is the deciding factor for trips to ML. And I think for the businesses it’s better to have CnR and a full season, than keep 1 fish but it shuts down completely in July or August. Not using live bait I think will keep people away. And no night fishing I think will keep people away, and believe that was the DNR’s goal with that reg. Also Anglers love the latest and greatest, look how quickly people started running Lead on the pond. I guarantee if IDO and other shows did a show from ML showing a new plastic or rap techniques catching a bunch of the 25+ eye’s in the Lake people would be back in short order.
At the end of the day the DNR is doing it’s best with one hand tied behind it’s back, and taking that into consideration, I think these are decent reg’s. In the end Mille Lacs will just be a merry-go-round of collapses and slight recoveries while treaty management is still implemented. And Treaty Management will continue to be implemented until we either get a Governor willing to take on the treaties, or an angling and fishing industry lobby that can rival what the tribe is doing.
maybe it’s me but I feel like the lake needs to managed with the best interest of the biology of the lake in mind. Sad to say but the interest of the resorts, bait shops, etc should not be considered. I know it will most likely never happen but find a way to have those uncomfortable and unpopular conversations with everyone involved and get the lake restored.
I found the above video with the zebra muscles interesting. Surprised it isn’t getting more commentary. What if that is one of the major underlying issues? Is that something we as a community are willing/able to admit?
B98TransAm, the DNR’s job is to Manage OUR Natural Resources. Not trying to be a cynic, but if they managed in the best interest of the biology of the lake(or river or forest) they wouldn’t allow any harvest or fishing or hunting. Their JOB is to decide what is best for the resource in relation to the tax paying public (and tribal in ML case) demands on it. So yes they do have to factor in the interests of the resorts, as well as the surrounding communities, anglers, and the tribe.
As far as the zeeb’s it will be interesting to see more studies and effects of them. Lake Erie is also covered with zeeb’s but it’s walleye population and fishery is doing pretty well from everything I’ve heard.
B98TransAm, the DNR’s job is to Manage OUR Natural Resources. Not trying to be a cynic, but if they managed in the best interest of the biology of the lake(or river or forest) they wouldn’t allow any harvest or fishing or hunting. Their JOB is to decide what is best for the resource in relation to the tax paying public (and tribal in ML case) demands on it. So yes they do have to factor in the interests of the resorts, as well as the surrounding communities, anglers, and the tribe.
As far as the zeeb’s it will be interesting to see more studies and effects of them. Lake Erie is also covered with zeeb’s but it’s walleye population and fishery is doing pretty well from everything I’ve heard.
Sure. I guess I didn’t mean to 100% not consider the interest of the “people” but rather to make the really hard choices that are going to have negative impacts on people but will restore the lake in 5-10 years kinda thing. Make sense? Basically make decisions now that will result in the lake becoming stabalized and sustainable in the next 5-10 years. Do these things even if it means business will be hurt or relations with the natives strained. Then in 5 years get the lake economy going again. I dunno seems like drastic times call for drastic measures.
Do these things even if it means business will be hurt or relations with the natives strained.
I agree, and imo the recent reg’s have done so while negatively impacting everyone associated with the lake. Unfortunately they can’t/won’t do anything to the tribe’s due to fear of another court debacle. So until the Governor does something or a public lobby gains enough traction to get the Government to do something about the treaty management we are left with this. Until Treaty Management is addressed the quota will stay miniscule in relation to the lake’s historic production. The resorts/businesses are forced to take it, while the tribe’s increase their political influence with Casino Monopoly money.
Unfortunately the 14″ fish we all caught this year will not be small enough to fit threw the nets webbing anymore, so next year I wouldn’t count on catching 15-16″ like we caught the 14″s this year.
Not sure how they can talk out of one side of their mouths saying they want to help the economy, and then ban live bait….. idiots.
Say what you want about the DNR ruining the lake, but Politicians have ruined about everything else. Far too much rhetoric in these bills and absolutely ZERO biology or science.
I hope Mille Lacs can turn it around and soon. Might be a couple more years before its more like it was 5 or 6 years ago.
So with that Smallie slot, how does that play into the Bassmasters tourney coming there? They have to follow local rules right? I was hoping to see some really big bags during the tourney, but maybe not.
BASS will move the tournament elsewhere. No way will they have their AOY tournament on a body of water that you can only keep 4 fish and no big ones.
BASS will move the tournament elsewhere. No way will they have their AOY tournament on a body of water that you can only keep 4 fish and no big ones.
Towards the end of the DNR statement it says “The ability to exempt large bass tournaments from the size regulation and bag limits remains.”
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Alex Welter wrote:</div>
BASS will move the tournament elsewhere. No way will they have their AOY tournament on a body of water that you can only keep 4 fish and no big ones.Towards the end of the DNR statement it says “The ability to exempt large bass tournaments from the size regulation and bag limits remains.”
I did not see that. That would be the only way they stay! Good to hear.
Bass was already exempted from this ruling last fall when they announced they would have the AOY on mille lacs.
Now we all have to sit back and watch while a group of people who CLAIM to be stewards of the environment, do their level best to destroy it.
Just an opinion and I’m no fisheries expert, but it’d be interesting to see what would happen if they started curbing the large numbers of fish over 25″es? I know it wouldn’t be popular with grip and grin cpr’ers, of which I am one. But it’d be fascinating to learn a decade from now that it was just an over abundance of big fish. And the old pounds/acre theory held true for the almighty big pond, and that we can’t have multiple big pieces of cake at the party and a bunch of small pieces of cake to bring home.
I’ve fished the lake enough to know it’s a very valuable resource, and have enjoyed both releasing and keeping its bounty. But there are other options and lakes to explore in this great state. It’s truly sad the amount of people so fiscally, politically and racially vested and tied to it and the tug of politically correctness war it’s created between 3-4 sides, that shouldn’t be arguing over their own selfish “rights” to it. Instead it should be managed for the long term viability of the awesome resource it’s been and hopefully still could/can be in the future.
Anglers (all races or logistical harvesting options), business owners(all of them, not matter if they are white, black, pink, green or belong to a sovereign nation), the DNR (both state and tribal), the politicians(tribal and state), are all guilty of depleting, mismanaging or having a selfish twist on their own stake in the resource. As long as that is not first addressed and everyone has their heels dug in to what benefits what they want, there’s little long term viability to any twisted, trying to please all sides, bound for failure attempt at a solution with no transparently explained direction. That’s the ultimate concerning factor with the complete lack of trust our states constituents have with it’s leaders(I use that term loosely)in the DNR and politicians.
Well boohoo to the walleye fisherpeople who absolutely can’t get by without the crutch of using live bait. You’re not gonna get any sympathy from me. Learn how to troll or throw Jigging Raps or Rippin’ Raps or rip jig swimbaits or twister tails. You just might find a productive new way to catch fish.
Will brings up an interesting point about the calcs involved in the Mortality numbers.
I have been thinking for a long time that its the mortality “number” that we need to be more concerned with than the “harvest” number.
So how about the DNR switch it up and say you get 1 fish, yes 1 fish BUT, once you catch one (any size), you are done. The mortality figures will surely go down, the angler hours will surely go down.
If this option were on the table I would fish walleyes there this year. Otherwise I have no interest. I enjoy bringing a couple fish home, but I don’t do it often.
I have chosen to avoid the lake last year because of the mess and not be a contributor to the problem, but if they had something like that I would go back and spend money in the area.
In my opinion, Mille Lacs is known as a bobber lake and the no live bait will force a change. Power corkin’ anyone?
The no live bait will affect my neighbor who spends his days on his pontoon under a sun top dropping a bobber chasing perch. I expect this summer he will be hanging a sucker under a milk carton.
Another friend of mine on the lake loves his bobber fishing. Drop a bobber, crack a beer. I can’t even get him to power cork. When we fish out of my boat I intentionally leave the anchor in the shed so we can’t sit still. I find that style of fishing extremely boring.
Those people will be seriously affected by the no bait.
Well boohoo to the <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>walleye fisherpeople who absolutely can’t get by without the crutch of using live bait.
I don’t think its people complaining that they wont be able to catch fish without losing livebait. Its the fact that the local baits shops will get hurt by no bait sales.
It’s also hard for the bait shops to sell bait when there are no fish in the lake to catch on the bait. In my opinion there a lot of people who are being very short sighted when it comes to the lake. A few years of financial hardship may just lead to better conservation policies for the resort owners with guided trips, the recreational anglers, and all of the bobber anglers who more than did their part in depleting the population by taking their limit day in and day out. In the long term, this is what is needed to get the lake back to where it once was in my opinion. Pointing the finger does nothing to fix the problem. Time to nut up, own your mistakes, and move on.
It’s also hard for the bait shops to sell bait when there are no fish in the lake to catch on the bait. In my opinion there a lot of people who are being very short sighted when it comes to the lake. A few years of financial hardship may just lead to better conservation policies for the resort owners with guided trips, the recreational anglers, and all of the bobber anglers who more than did their part in depleting the population by taking their limit day in and day out. In the long term, this is what is needed to get the lake back to where it once was in my opinion. Pointing the finger does nothing to fix the problem. Time to nut up, own your mistakes, and move on.
All I will say, YOU HAVE ZERO CLUE OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED AT AND TO LAKE MILLE LACS. ZERO….!!!!
Let me guess? Predation from smallmouth and bigger walleyes? The indians netting? It certainly has nothing to do with Charters taking limit after limit from the lake.
All I’m saying is C&R now is better than having 0 fish in the future…. deal with and fish elsewhere for the time being if you want to keep walleyes.
I don’t spend a lot of time posting stuff on this site or on my Facebook site that is solely based on my opinion. Unfortunately the recent decisions made by the DNR has left me frustrated enough to share my thoughts. The norm for me is to find a solution and fix the issue if I don’t like something. (Don’t whine, change it.) The issue typically does not deserve my time if I have no control over the final outcome.
I unfortunately do not have any control of what happens on Mille Lacs, but in this case I can’t help myself from sharing my thoughts. Mille Lacs will not thrive again until people start to face the brutal reality. I don’t for a second pretend to have the knowledge possessed by the DNR or the professionals working to solve the issue. I certainly don’t know or fully understand all the contributing factors that have caused the significant crash in the walleye population. What I do know is that some common sense needs to be brought back into the equation. People need to stop worrying about political correctness, face the brutal reality, and do his/her part to help rebuild one of the best resources in the country.
It starts with getting the nets out of the Lake. Please stop reading this if you think this issue is about race. It isn’t! We could debate all day about politics, beliefs, and opinions related to these rights. I am not interested in a debate, I am interested in common sense. The netting all but destroyed Red Lake, prior to the years and years of interventions to rebuild it. It has nothing to do with who is taking the fish, but more so it has to do with the devastation and lasting impact the netting has on the lake. Past history tells us what will ultimately happen to the system. Common sense tells us that no one should be allowed to take thousands upon thousands of fish out of the system during the spawn.
It does not stop with just removing the nets. We ALL need to do our part. I wholeheartedly support the decision made by the DNR to have a catch and release only season. Enjoy your friends and family, enjoy the resource, enjoy the sport of fishing and stop worrying about keeping the fish. There are 9,999 other lakes in this state in which you can put together a stringer of fish for a fish fry.
Each and every angler must also do his/her part in educating people. We all need to learn proper fishing etiquette to reduce the amount of hooking mortality that goes on. Please take the time to learn how to protect this valuable resource. We all need to be diligent when it comes to properly handling fish, correct hook removal, quick transitions back into the water, and appropriate releases. It is also our responsibility to stay educated as it relates to invasive species. We all need to do our part to minimize the amount in which they are spread.
As much as I agree with catch and release, I could not be more adamantly opposed to the lake being limited to artificial bait. I sincerely believe this decision will do more harm to the local economy than it will good for the lake. The average angler will pass Mille Lacs to go fish on Winnie, LOTW, or Red where they can use the fishing technique of their choice. Common sense again should tell us that the good that could come from this does not out weigh the bad. You will literally see several local businesses close their door as a result of this decision.
A little common sense could go a long ways……………..
Tight Lines
Let me guess? Predation from smallmouth and bigger walleyes? The indians netting? It certainly has nothing to do with Charters taking limit after limit from the lake.
When was the last time charters took limit after limit? Better yet, when was the last time you fished Mille Lacs?
The politics of the lake are much deeper then C&R can ever hope to fix.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Alex Welter wrote:</div>
Let me guess? Predation from smallmouth and bigger walleyes? The indians netting? It certainly has nothing to do with Charters taking limit after limit from the lake.When was the last time charters took limit after limit? Better yet, when was the last time you fished Mille Lacs?
The politics of the lake are much deeper then C&R can ever hope to fix.
I fished it in February and caught a ton of fish, none of which were in the slot. Give them a year or two to grow and it will be in good shape.
I urge you to look around the web for all of the pictures of limits of walleyes nailed to boards from throughout the years. And then last year it turned into the smallies after the closure. This is as big of problem as tribal netting. It takes everyone accepting a bit of the blame to turn things around.
Alex Welter….( or anyone for that matter) my cell number is in the link below. Call me if you want a history lesson on Lake Mille Lacs from every angle you want or need. No one goes back as far into the “charter” fishing history here than myself…or you can continue to have a closed mind to the facts.
“Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but NO ONE is entitled to their own set of facts”.
Alex Welter–thank you for signing your posts with your real full name…..than means a lot to me! I respect that.
Sadly, when anyone tries to change things regarding “tribal” issues (state reps or stakeholders/citizens) –the lawmakers and the attorney general from MN. IGNORE the law. The LAW is very clear— ALL state related negotiations MUST be made public. Just as this article points out today– if it is “tribal” related–the laws are ignored by the DNR and all other branches of the government. Bills to change this get zero hearings let alone votes in St. Paul. Local/Lake Mille Lacs area state reps bring this up and ALL other lawmakers ignore them….
http://www.startribune.com/dnr-chippewa-talks-on-mille-lacs-should-be-public/373513881/
GLIFWC (Great Lakes Indian Fishing and Hunting Commission) is 100 percent funded by the U.S Government–yet NOT accountable to the taxpayers in this regard!
The sad part is, if the elephant in the room even gets hesitantly approached, a person is broad brush stroked labeled with no concern for facts as racist. Facts are meaningless, and as long as the DNR and politicians stay in the shallow end of the kiddy pool, good luck moving forward with lake management. I don’t discount that the 4 letter word that rhymes with bet’s are having an affect on the fishery, but still think there’s a lot more going on with the lake than just one or two or even 3 or 4 issues. The lake has changed slowly over the last X number of years, with all of a sudden an eye opening wake up call. The DNR is reacting and continuously reacting vs bringing any kind of proactive ideas or strategies to the table, it’s always a muddled up, seemingly hodge podge of reg’s that are more stupidity based, than scientific. Bundle that together with their lack of transparency, and it has lead most of us down the path to “Distrust-Ville” Minnesota. The lake’s future with it’s ecology, economy and who has the “rights” to what, is and will always be divisive, as long as everyone is concerned about pocket books, bottom dollars, racial divisions and an inability to understand things can and do change.
So the walleye season is catch and release only for 2016, taking hooking mortality into harvest quota’s?
So they are going into it ‘knowing’ fish are going to die from fishing, that anglers can’t keep?
Doesn’t that define want and waste?
People will be releasing fish that will die, and that’s acceptable? I understand there’s fact’s to fishing and released fish, no matter how carefully taken care of die, I get that. Yet they are going into it with the full mind set that angling pressure will kill X number of pounds of fish, but it’s not okay to keep a fish, seriously? If angling is going to kill that many pounds of fish, yet an angler can’t keep a fish, it’d seem to be better to just shut the lake down to angling for the health of the fishery vs killing a certain number of fish, just to go catch and release fishing on a lake that is having some pretty substantial, unknown issues?
Or is there another motive, other than the health of the lake that is controlling regulations? Just another step to “Distrust-Ville, MN”.
There’d be less angler hours and hooking mortality if you could go out and keep a fish per person and then you had to get off the lake or go fish for pike or bass. And I’m a catch and release guy!
I have no problem doing whatever is needed biologically to help the lake. Problem being, and I think most anglers are in the same boat, they just don’t trust a dnr and it’s state politicians that lick their finger to see which direction the political winds are blowing before they decide where their stance on something is.
Just sad all the way around, how it’s pitted fishermen against each other. You’re a fishermen first, before a walleye, bass or musky guy or gal. I wish all sides would pull their heads out and understand how stupid it is to obsess over a singular species and not have some sort of compassion or empathy for another angler who shares the same passion as you, but for another species. Then to view that person as an enemy vs an ally to protect our fisheries. That is the direction fishing has been heading for a long time and it isn’t the best for battling long term challenges to the sport.
So they are going into it ‘knowing’ fish are going to die from fishing, that anglers can’t keep?
Doesn’t that define want and waste?
This is precisely why I have said, catch one fish, you are done. Have the limit be one fish, ANY size. You catch it, you keep it. Hooking mortality should be minimized. Angler hours will be minimized and many people would actually go to the lake because they can actually take a fish home.
This is precisely why I have said, catch one fish, you are done. Have the limit be one fish, ANY size. You catch it, you keep it. Hooking mortality should be minimized. Angler hours will be minimized and many people would actually go to the lake because they can actually take a fish home.
How could that work in practice? Are you proposing you have to keep the first fish you catch and then you’re done? Would people really go through the trouble of hauling their boat there just to catch a maybe 13″ walleye and then have to pack it up and go home? If it’s just a traditional 1 fish daily limit then there is still hooking mortality and then on top of that people are keeping fish.
So they are going into it ‘knowing’ fish are going to die from fishing, that anglers can’t keep?
Doesn’t that define want and waste?
People will be releasing fish that will die, and that’s acceptable? I understand there’s fact’s to fishing and released fish, no matter how carefully taken care of die, I get that. Yet they are going into it with the full mind set that angling pressure will kill X number of pounds of fish, but it’s not okay to keep a fish, seriously?
I don’t understand your point here at all. Hooking mortality isn’t a new concept. What makes you think hooking mortality wasn’t a factor in lake management before? With these regulations nobody will be keeping a fish and the hooking mortality should be lower than previous years because some people won’t go at all due to not being able to keep any. So, yeah, the concept is that it is ok to kill X amount of fish due to hooking mortality but not keep Y amount of fish because X + Y = too many.
If angling is going to kill that many pounds of fish, yet an angler can’t keep a fish, it’d seem to be better to just shut the lake down to angling for the health of the fishery vs killing a certain number of fish, just to go catch and release fishing on a lake that is having some pretty substantial, unknown issues?
Sure, maybe it would be better to just not allow walleye fishing at all. The cost of that though might be the loss of many businesses on the lake. There isn’t a solution that’s going to make everybody happy and work optimally at the same time.
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