Why Don’t They Build Brick Houses in T.C.s

  • boone
    Woodbury, MN
    Posts: 917
    #1264139

    My wife thinks we’re in the market for a new house. I’m not so sure, but anyways we both love the look of brick houses. However here in the Twin Cities it seems like they just don’t build brick house. On some houses the front will be brick the other three sides will have siding. I can see that on relatively inexpensive homes but in the eastern Twin Cities, even houses over $500K aren’t bricked. Now in my hometown of Dubuque, there seems to be a lot of nice, mid-level brick homes that have been built in the past several years.

    Anybody know why there are so few brick homes being built, and what the additional cost of brick vs. a paintable siding board, or vinyl or steel siding would be?

    It seems to me that maintenance-free vinyl fades significantly and needs to be replaced at least every 20 years. And even moderately sized hail punches holes in it. And painting houses isn’t cheap either. It seems to me that the extra upfront costs of brick could be recovered over a number of years compared to the other exterior surfaces. Just how much more expensive is a brick exterior that nobody bricks houses?

    Thanks,

    Boone

    Brian Klawitter
    Keymaster
    Minnesota/Wisconsin Mississippi River
    Posts: 59946
    #800561

    If they were all brick, Stickboy would be fishing all summer and snow plowing all winter.

    He knows all my spots…and we need to keep him off the water in the summer!

    kooty
    Keymaster
    1 hour 15 mins to the Pond
    Posts: 18101
    #800564

    I don’t know what the cost differences are because our builder apparently didn’t want to do it that way. He would just tell us our siding costs would quadruple +. Well, in the initial thought process, that did sound like a lot. However, I like your way of thinking when it comes to the long term maintenance/upkeep factor.

    I hate our vinyl siding. We have Hardie/Rock on the front, but the sides were all vinyl(whole development). Well, after our hail storm last year, I was able to replace the north side with Hardie now too. I just need another couple hail storms and I’ll have the whole place done. I was able to do the work myself, which obviously saved a ton of money.

    Find a builder who is willing to price it out both ways so you can make an educated decision. Not sure building right now is the right way to go. Buy a forclosure and fix it up and still have equity in it.

    bzzsaw
    Hudson, Wi
    Posts: 3436
    #800573

    My dad was a masonary contractor and I had the priveledge to work for him going through school. Can you say grunt?

    I would guess the quadruple cost would be a good place to start – probably even more than that. The material (brick/mortor) is going to be more expensive, but labor is what really kicks up the price. How long does it take to side a normal house (a week)? My guess is it would take closer to 4 weeks to brick the same house.

    You will see alot more brick houses in the south. There are a boat load of them in Atlanta. They have lots of Mexican workers that lay brick and work from sun up to sun down for a lot less than the brick layers around here get paid. But even down there, its more common to see just the fronts bricked than the entire house.

    suzuki
    Woodbury, Mn
    Posts: 18189
    #800576

    I was in Kansas City once and noticed brick house neighborhoods were thick. Really caught my eye. Sure seems like a good material to use up here.

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13299
    #800579

    All comes down to money, and unfortunately most builders are chasing a market with people looking for the cheapest cost.
    I pulled a job cost report for a quick comparison. Two story with full rear exposure, bricked pillars for a deck, all quioned corners, and soldier row trim at all windows and doors at all elevations $83,707.00 PLUS Brick ledge cost on foundation wall
    Hardi plank with composite trim & Caulking L&M $22,213.00 ( little under 4,000 sqft home + lower level)

    Brian Hoffies
    Land of 10,000 taxes, potholes & the politically correct.
    Posts: 6843
    #800591

    If you can’t go brick siding go steel. I did mine in steel in 1995 and just this past weekend pressure washed it. First time I’ve touched it, and the next time will be after i’m dead.

    boone
    Woodbury, MN
    Posts: 917
    #800606

    Thanks everybody for the information. It looks like the brick would cost about $60K – $70K more for a house that’s about 4000 sqft. That does seem like a lot but a hardi planked, 4000 sqft house is probably going to cost about $450K or more in the Twin Cities I’m guessing.

    So it seems like a good ball park figure to use for the addition cost of brick vs. hardi board would be about 15% of the total home price.

    Thanks,

    Boone

    Boone04
    Fountain city, WI
    Posts: 321
    #800648

    Not really sure I can help you…But LOVE your name

    jerrj01
    Hudson, WI
    Posts: 1547
    #800657

    I agree with Brian. I have a house with vinyl siding and it sux. I have a cabin up north that is seamless steel siding and love it. The roof is steel as well and it is great. And no it isn’t that noisey during a rain or hail storm and way more durable.

    jay55447
    Plymouth MN.
    Posts: 1031
    #800661

    I have been asked these questions a thousand times. Two things in siding “money and time”
    Most have answered already that it takes alot longer to brick a house than to say vinyl side it. As far as quality of vinyl it has gone up alot in the last 10-20 years, the fading is still there but with a good quality its at a minimal.
    Why dont people spend the money?? Most people in my opinion buy a house like a car they tend to stay a short time rather than for the long haul so if you are staying in a 4000 sq. foot house with 5 bedrooms for your kids, in 20 years they are gone so why stay. The thousands you spent on the brick are not going to bring you that much more in resale so most people in my opinion say whats the point.
    Also there were flashing problems with brick and stucco several years back. They just dont allow you to build them like they used to. A stucco house built in 1920 has o mold issues a stucco house built in 199? the walls a rotten.
    My two cents now only worth a penny

    Prestige
    Elgin, MN
    Posts: 245
    #800672

    I am in the process of building a house and the siding I am using is 8″ Cedarwood Steel. Labor and material will run around $4 or $5 a foot. The quote I got for brick was around $16 to $18 a foot. I personally do not like brick and will be doing stone and that will run a little more.

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 21947
    #800678

    My house is all brick. Built in the 60’s. Only maintenance I should have is shingles, just did them with 30 year, 3 years ago Just resided the garage in Hardi-Board. Used 25 year paint on that, hopefully it lasts that long We have vinyl siding on the cabins up north, and the sunny sides are faded bad. Less than 7 years… New cabin will be either steel siding or painted grooved plywood siding.

    big G

    boone
    Woodbury, MN
    Posts: 917
    #800745

    Quote:


    Also there were flashing problems with brick and stucco several years back. They just dont allow you to build them like they used to. A stucco house built in 1920 has o mold issues a stucco house built in 199? the walls a rotten.


    I wasn’t aware that brick houses also had the rot problem. But I quess with so few brick houses being built, it might not make the headlines. I know several stucco homes in Woodbury had problems. One of my co-workers tore off his stucco and put up hardi board.

    Besides the additional cost issue of brick, it seems like it’s hard to find a lot to build with brick even if you wanted. My impression so far is that new developments are controlled by just one or two big builders and they just offer about four plans, with each plan having some slight variation. I suppose this mass manufacturing method does help reduce the cost of those models. They are some custom home builders and it seems like their costs per square foot are higher than the “Pick Your Model” builders for homes of similar construction.

    So what we need is a “Pick Your Model” builder to start an all-brick exterior development. As others have pointed out, in other cities you see them. Even in places like Omaha which I would think would have similar labor cost as the Twin Cities.

    Boone

    bzzsaw
    Hudson, Wi
    Posts: 3436
    #800768

    From an appearance standpoint, I like brick better than any of the siding products I’ve seen. I’m not sure I would care for my entire house in brick. At some point down the road, I want to put cultured stone on the front of my house. I would guess the cost is comparable to brick, but I like the looks of some of the cultured stone better than brick.

    jay55447
    Plymouth MN.
    Posts: 1031
    #800786

    I have always been a custom builder. I havent had problems getting into developments until the national companies came in. Once they showed up it was buy your lots in bulk or stay out. Right now you can go just about any where and get back in with any builder of your choice at least if they are smart. The builder in these developments dont really make the rules when it comes to brick, all brick stucco, sididng its the developer that makes you follow the guide lines that they set so even if you wanted to pay the rules of the development wont allow you. You will not get a builder to build an all brick house development theres just no way first off not in this economy and brick is to labor intese just wont happen in my opinion. Now that doesnt mean you couldnt have an all brick house built for your self.

    jay55447
    Plymouth MN.
    Posts: 1031
    #800788


    I wasn’t aware that brick houses also had the rot problem. But I quess with so few brick houses being built, it might not make the headlines. I know several stucco homes in Woodbury had problems. One of my co-workers tore off his stucco and put up hardi board.



    Not so much with brick but it still happens. the stucco was not a stucco problem its a flashing problem same flashing design used in stucco is used in brick

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13299
    #800829

    Quote:



    I wasn’t aware that brick houses also had the rot problem. But I quess with so few brick houses being built, it might not make the headlines. I know several stucco homes in Woodbury had problems. One of my co-workers tore off his stucco and put up hardi board.



    Not so much with brick but it still happens. the stucco was not a stucco problem its a flashing problem same flashing design used in stucco is used in brick


    If you follow the Building Science proceedures, you will have an awesome quality home that will last. Two very different issues are present when you talk about “Stucco” and Brick having rot issues in the wall. As homes have become much more so called energy effiecient, the ability to breathe and dry is greatly reduced. Thus the explosion of mold issues you have heard about in the last 15 years. A propperly insullated and poly’d wall should be air tight from the interior side. Warm MOIST air should not penetrate this wall. It is this with the conbintaion of the wrong TYVEK used behind brick that water can be contained with warm air and do the damage that it does. Regardless of Brick or cultured productes, moister will condensate behind these products. Brick that has been properly installed has TYVEK Drainage behind it and weep holes that exceed industry standards. I see this with almost all production builders. They have their carpenters install regular Tyvek to the entire house and brag it up to the customer about how their home is going to be Energy Start rated, blah, blah blah. The carpenter is not a mason and doesn’t always know exactly where brick or stone is going, so he/she just installs the plain Tyvek as instructed. The Mason arrives and sees the Tyvek logo and runs his brick…or as I have seen, installs a second layer of Tyvek as a drainage mat which causes a vapor barrier and traps wet air…..Frustrating! Also, a air gap is installed between the brick and the wall. Usually less than 1/2″, it aids in the breathing of the wall and draining of any water.

    Unless you looking at a very high end home, very few contractors do Stucco. They do a much cheaper version called E.I.F.S. which stands for Exterior Insulated Finish System. This is a foam back process. 1″ to 2″ foam is attached to the face of the wall, 1 coat of a polymer adhesive cement base scratch coat, and a final textured skim coat. This is the product you absolutely MUST use caution with. Earlier installations called for the foam to be directly installed to the wall. This meant that no drainage mat or plain was established and the walls rotted out very fast. Track builders were including the foam R value as part of the wall insulation value and basicly lying to their customers. This foam is NOT part of your insulation system. It is a finishing product that has R value characteristics, but since you must have air breath between it and your wall, it is not part of the 6 sided box that makes up you insulation system. Major improvements have been made in recent years for installation practices. It is a great product when installed properly. It is so sad that it is not an easy process to identify if it has the proper drainage mat installed unless it is ripped open

    boone
    Woodbury, MN
    Posts: 917
    #800865

    Stick Boy and Randy,

    Thank for taking the time to provide that detailed information. Looks like I’ve got a lot to learn.

    Boone

    farmboy1
    Mantorville, MN
    Posts: 3668
    #800869

    Randy makes some great points. A few things I will add to this.

    Either EIFS, Brick, Stone or Stucco need to be installed as a SYSTEM. This system needs to be installed properly at all locations and even one improperly installed item will cause the entire system to fail. Too many contractors have put in one of these products as an independent product and fail to do the other items that go with it. Examples include substrate, flashing, window/door openings and drainage, and tie ins at roofs/soffits.

    Brick is also not without maintenence. It simply puts off the maintenence for 20 years, but then tuckpointing and replacement of spalled bricks will cost you greatly. That may not be a concern if you do not plan on holding the home for that long.

    Roofer
    Minnesota
    Posts: 79
    #800877

    This is easily answered in one word….PRICE

    The guys have it right. I agree with everything said. A proper installation costs money. Too many people out right now being “contractors” and just hiring a cheap sub. Can we blame them…..uhhh, kinda, but not really.
    When it comes to homes and the general public, everyone wants a Porsche for the price of a Ford Escort.
    Who’s fault is it???? You decide.

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