When these lawyers charge 1st degree in cases like this they are fools. No way it’s premeditated.
I don’t see how either, it literally fits the definition of manslaughter, i.e. “crime of passion.” Reactionary, provoked, etc. Still not good and not legal, but not planned.
I still remember the day that it happened.
It’s really hard to watch and really hard to decipher what exactly what took place, but I think when he “hit a women” was when he stabbed the first girl (victim).
I didn’t see any physical altercation prior to that.
He should have just walked away from a bunch of drunk ass kids being stupid (when they were telling him to walk away)
After stabbing the girl is when people pushed him down and punched him (I would have done the same, and stabbed him myself to halt the situation)
Bullying is never acceptable, but it can’t be answered with violence.
I’ve walked away from an alcohol induced fight before it escalated, it’s the easiest and best decision you or I will ever make.
As of now we don’t know what occured prior to the video, but if he wasn’t physically attacked or physically threatened he’s going to spend a lot of time in jail (and should).
Being verbally abused isn’t an excuse for multiple homicides.
“Sticks and Stones may break my bones…” doesn’t make killing drunk kids acceptable.
Walk the F away
Agree B-man. Those with proper firearms training know that too, you’ve gotta find a way to get out of a situation.
I pretty much thought this would be a no brainer case for the prosecution, but the defense team is doing a good job painting the self defense picture. A lot of the kids (and even adults) testified to having “fuzzy memories” and questionable judgement due to impairment of alcohol and drugs.
Without the video, I say Miu would have had a much better chance of walking, but I still think he will be convicted based on the video alone. I’m just not sure how they will get a 1st degree though. Can the jury find a lesser charge?
Imagine being on trial and you have random witnesses saying this about you…. just watch the defense cross examine this guy. “He had a hat on and pants and jumped out of the bushes and was taking pictures of the girls”
What??? Unbelievable
He’s a really good defense lawyer. Based one the first 3 days of this trial I’d be fairly surprised if it was a guilty verdict.
This is going to be a disaster at least for the victims family and friends I think wtf.
He’s a really defense lawyer. Based one the first 3 days of this trial I’d be fairly surprised if it was a guilty verdict.
Yup, one of them was on the Rittenhouse defense, so Mr Miu has a solid team. The prosecution looks like a bunch of bumbling clowns.
This is going to be a disaster at least for the victims family and friends I think wtf.
I expect nothing more than a ‘mostly peaceful protest’ 
The important question is… what does the Governor think of it ?
The thing is the over charged the crime. He should of ben charged with the most 2nd degree murder or Manslaughter. Trying in this case to prove pre mediated murder is going to be challenging. Often in this case is the State Attorney pushing for to high of charges.
The State’s witnesses sure aren’t helping anything:
“was she on the right or left of you?”
“sorry I’m not good with Rights and Lefts”
“about how far away was he at that time”
“sorry I’m not good at Math?”
Not that surprising. These teenagers are trying to recall an incident that took place a year and a half ago when they were drunk and stoned at the time. Attacking their memory is a good strategy by the defense attorney.
The prosecutor botched this thing on multiple levels.
1. The charges appear to be a “swing for the fences” approach
2. These witnesses are not thoroughly prepared. If you are going to call them, you better have both your side of events and responses ready as well as work to predict questions/ideas the defense will bring up. These witnesses are young and likely have 0 experience in a courtroom, much less a situation of this magnitude. They are getting run over without even realizing it
Disregard my previous predictions…I’m going with a not guilty verdict as my guess. Not because this guy is innocent of wrongdoing, but because the prosecution brought him up on charges that don’t fit the crime AND the witnesses are at best neutral, rather than proving intent and outcome beyond a reasonable doubt.
The State’s witnesses sure aren’t helping anything:
“was she on the right or left of you?”
“sorry I’m not good with Rights and Lefts”“about how far away was he at that time”
“sorry I’m not good at Math?”
Calling witnesses who were intoxicated at the time to the stand….Brilliant!
Calling witnesses who were intoxicated at the time to the stand….Brilliant!
Yeah, that is pretty dang genius. Anyone ever hear of a credible witness? LOL
The prosecutor botched this thing on multiple levels.
1. The charges appear to be a “swing for the fences” approach
2. These witnesses are not thoroughly prepared. If you are going to call them, you better have both your side of events and responses ready as well as work to predict questions/ideas the defense will bring up. These witnesses are young and likely have 0 experience in a courtroom, much less a situation of this magnitude. They are getting run over without even realizing it
Disregard my previous predictions…I’m going with a not guilty verdict as my guess. Not because this guy is innocent of wrongdoing, but because the prosecution brought him up on charges that don’t fit the crime AND the witnesses are at best neutral, rather than proving intent and outcome beyond a reasonable doubt.
they shoulda got BULL to help pick the jury!!!!! 
sorry i havent watched a second of coverage on that trial!!!!! sounds pretty screwed up!!!!!
Wouldn’t the video(s) trump the witness testimony as to what actually occurred??
Who gives a $hit if the witnesses can’t accurately remember every detail, I wouldn’t be able to either.
Meanwhile, there he is stabbing away unarmed people on camera….
Wouldn’t the video(s) trump witness testimony as to what actually occurred??
wouldn’t t that make to much sense??? 
I don’t see him being guilty of first degree intentional homicide for sure.
I haven’t watched all the trial, and I have yet to see an explanation of when the guy stabbed the girl. For me that is a critical part of the evidence.
Did he stab her prior to him being knocked down? If he had stabbed her at the time he punched her, then I would go with manslaughter, because the others in her group then had reason to knock him down. If he did not stab anybody until after he was knocked down and hit multiple times while laying in the water, I can certainly see a case for self defense. Although if that is the case, then he pursued her and stabbed her from behind after walking away from the threatening young men – making him guilty of assault with a deadly weapon, and possibly attempted homicide. This is what I believe to be the case. Miu was charged with four counts of attempted homicide in addition to the first degree intentional homicide charge. He was also charged with battery.
As I see it now, he will be convicted on all the lesser charges.
All parties involved made very bad decisions, tragically ending with a young man dead.
I haven’t watched all the trial, and I have yet to see an explanation of when the guy stabbed the girl. For me that is a critical part of the evidence.
Did he stab her prior to him being knocked down?
I think the case will hinge on this. Everyone up to now has said that Miu hit the blond girl first (Maddie). They cannot however agree if it was a slap or a punch or what hand he used or what side of her face was hit. This was the first physical contact by either party. Also it wasn’t captured on any video, so both sides have been trying hard to prove or disprove it. There are also no pictures or videos of any injuries that “Maddie” suffered during that first contact.
So did he hit her, and people seen that and reacted to it, or did she say he hit her and then everyone else reacted to her emotions? One guy shouts “you don’t hit a girl” and then all hell breaks loose.
Either way, to answer your question, nobody got stabbed until he was hit and knocked down a few times.
Wouldn’t the video(s) trump the witness testimony as to what actually occurred??
In the end, probably yes. But there was a lot not on camera that needed to be corroborated to match up with the video. Plus, they would have called him to introduce the video as he was the one who took it.
DT
Sorry, not a legal expert like many others on the site. Can the judge or jury come back and convict of a lesser charge even though they are prosecuting the lesser charge? I agree first degree is a stretch.
I’m certainly not an expert but I don’t believe you can be convicted of something you aren’t charged with.
Depending on jurisdiction the prosecution can charge with lesser included crimes for the same act.
This is in MN
Upon an indictment or complaint for murder, if the jury finds the defendant not guilty, it may, upon the same indictment or complaint, find the defendant guilty of manslaughter in any degree. In all other cases, the defendant may be found guilty of any offense necessarily included in that offense with which the defendant is charged in the indictment or complaint.
DT – good summation of MN law, unsure of WI law. My criminal law class was at the U of M Law School 40+ years ago and I never practiced so don’t offer definitive legal opinions.
Very good info guys thank you! It does beg the question however why do they charge for something that is likely not going to get a conviction like in this case 1st degree murder? Is it a scare tactic? I remember Ellison doing the same thing I think it was in the George Floyd case.
Very good info guys thank you! It does beg the question however why do they charge for something that is likely not going to get a conviction like in this case 1st degree murder? Is it a scare tactic? I remember Ellison doing the same thing I think it was in the George Floyd case.
Just speculation on my part, but I believe the prosecution does this to appease the families of the victims.
Any person put in place as a state prosecutor had to KNOW that they cannot get Murder 1 on somebody who was laying in water surrounded by a mob of young men before he ever made contact with the deceased. But they could reasonably assume they may succeed on the lesser charges.
It is also likely that prosecuting a 1st Degree Murder case is beneficial to the career of a state prosecutor. Even if he only wins on the Battery charge, he can still claim he prosecuted a 1st Degree Murder case and was successful.
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