VNP, did the park ranger go to far?

I think is pretty safe to say both could have handled that differently.

Ripjiggen wrote:

I think is pretty safe to say both could have handled that differently.

THat was my takeaway as well.

Looks to me like two people ran into each other at bad times…personally thought the cops were being pretty civil about the whole thing until someone decided to get huffy and do what they wanted to do. At the end, was the houseboat damaged or people hurts? people be crazy.

What was the end result of all of that?

Just to be clear, nobody was fleeing…

I am normally quick to side with the cops. Not sure about this one. The guy was obviously worried about his house boats and danger to his clients. The house boat was in sight. Why couldn’t they let him get it secured before they did their business? The houseboat guy didn’t hold back on his language. I don’t think he will be sending them Christmas cards this year.

and justtss my opinion into the mix….the Rangers were morons….they watched the guy pull his houseboat off the rocks, he has old people scared running the houseboat, he is trying to get it into calm water to calm them down and asses the damages…..then the park Rangers step in and tell him to stop what he is doing….WTF….just let him finish and check him and the houseboat out after it is secure. Those guys are what give LE a bad name.

bzzsaw wrote:

I am normally quick to side with the cops. Not sure about this one. The guy was obviously worried about his house boats and danger to his clients. The house boat was in sight. Why couldn’t they let him get it secured before they did their business? The houseboat guy didn’t hold back on his language. I don’t think he will be sending them Christmas cards this year.

That guy talks to park Rangers like you talk to sailboat operators.

onestout wrote:

and justtss my opinion into the mix….the Rangers were morons….they watched the guy pull his houseboat off the rocks, he has old people scared running the houseboat, he is trying to get it into calm water to calm them down and asses the damages…..then the park Rangers step in and tell him to stop what he is doing….WTF….just let him finish and check him and the houseboat out after it is secure. Those guys are what give LE a bad name.

That’s what gets me as you can here say numerous times just let me get my houseboats parked. Im wondering if there’s a back story of these rangers acting on a power trip? I really enjoyed him telling them to get their F-ing boat off his motors!! Lol probably did help the cause but he was not wrong either in my opinion. Lol

onestout wrote:

Those guys are what give LE a bad name.

its always easy to tell which ones got into the profession because of the power aspect of it

gregory wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>onestout wrote:</div>
and justtss my opinion into the mix….the Rangers were morons….they watched the guy pull his houseboat off the rocks, he has old people scared running the houseboat, he is trying to get it into calm water to calm them down and asses the damages…..then the park Rangers step in and tell him to stop what he is doing….WTF….just let him finish and check him and the houseboat out after it is secure. Those guys are what give LE a bad name.

That’s what gets me as you can here say numerous times just let me get my houseboats parked. Im wondering if there’s a back story of these rangers acting on a power trip? I really enjoyed him telling them to get their F-ing boat off his motors!! Lol probably did help the cause but he was not wrong either in my opinion. Lol

I read another story that stated the operator was known to have an attitude towards the other rangers and DNR, so i think that set the tone. It looked like the rangers were looking to start something.

I hear people say all he had to do was comply, but what about the other side? What was the rush to do a boat check on a business owner and an elderly couple on vacation? He clearly said, just give me minute and let’s get out of the wind and people to safety. Imagine you were hosting an elderly couple and they drove your $150k boat up on to the rocks and it’s blowing and you are trying to get them safe but also rescue your boat. Now you have some guys wanting to check for whistles and life vests.

100% is a power move…just my opinion

I’m just civil with CO anymore. I give them the bare minimum of info.
This is because of being accused of hunting after hours and having ducks hidden in my boat when loading after dark.
After the search and the CO could not find a gun, shells, or ducks he let me go. He didn’t believe me when I said I was fishing.

So is there any new info on this situation? Did the houseboat sink? Did the Officers just tie his boats up and leave? Are the 2 old people still stranded?

I am surprised by the lack of support for our law enforcement. The guy was refusing to follow commands of law enforcement and could have avoided all this by just listening. I have read it many times here that people should just follow commands of law enforcement.

walleye216 wrote:

I am surprised by the lack of support for our law enforcement. The guy was refusing to follow commands of law enforcement and could have avoided all this by just listening. I have read it many times here that people should just follow commands of law enforcement.

Well each circumstance is different. These Rangers were wrong. Ebel did what as business owners many of us would do. He was looking out for his clients first, then his equipment. He wasn’t going to run away. The Ebel family has been up there for decades. Everybody knows them, knows where their business is. This was a case of the Rangers attempting to throw their power around and Justin wasn’t having any of it. If you think Justin got hot you should have known his dad.

walleye216 wrote:

I am surprised by the lack of support for our law enforcement. The guy was refusing to follow commands of law enforcement and could have avoided all this by just listening. I have read it many times here that people should just follow commands of law enforcement.

Best part of body cam, we can all make the judgment case by case.

walleye216 wrote:

I am surprised by the lack of support for our law enforcement. The guy was refusing to follow commands of law enforcement and could have avoided all this by just listening. I have read it many times here that people should just follow commands of law enforcement.

Did Justin Ebel listen—- No
Did LEO’s listen—– No
Both are at fault.
Is it 50-50??? We weren’t there so hard to say.

If it was your family on the rocks, or your equipment on the rocks what would you do?

The VNP rangers have a longstanding reputation of being on a powertrip. Glad to see somebody push back.

What was the final outcome, as I recall there was a lawsuit filed against them.

Timmy wrote:

The VNP rangers have a longstanding reputation of being on a powertrip. Glad to see somebody push back.

What was the final outcome, as I recall there was a lawsuit filed against them.

Lots of good info pops up if you search for ‘voyager national park rangers tasing resort owner’. Here is one of the first things.

‘The U.S. Attorney has filed petty charges in the case, against the local business owner, Justin Ebel, and as of late December those charges had been dismissed. None of the charges against Mr. Ebel appeared to justify a tasing even if he had been guilty of the infractions.’

Read some of the stories on the Timberjack. Opinions of the rangers actions up there are not favorable.

I think you mean Timberjay.

CaptainMusky wrote:

I think you mean Timberjay.

Yep.

walleye216 wrote:

I am surprised by the lack of support for our law enforcement. The guy was refusing to follow commands of law enforcement and could have avoided all this by just listening. I have read it many times here that people should just follow commands of law enforcement.

There are many circumstances in which their “commands” are unconstitutional. I will definitely follow a lawful order, but too many times what they are asking for is not lawful and all you need to to is watch any quality amendment auditors on YouTube and you will see just how often this really happens.

Don’t confuse this exercising of rights with support for law enforcement (or lack thereof).

Ebel sounds like an over entitled 2 year old that is screaming about losing his cookie because his mom is making him get in the car. Not surprised seems like alot of resort owners think they deserve special treatment. He didnt refuse orders because of the danger he refused because it wasn’t his ranger buddy, he wasn’t rescuing a houseboat, that was done he was retreiving the tender they lost, they weren’t his clients, they were individuals that had violated common navigation laws and put themselves in danger. The paper doesnt seem at all biased either when you read their articles. They do have excellent reviews from customers though.

Riverrat wrote:

Ebel sounds like an over entitled 2 year old that is screaming about losing his cookie because his mom is making him get in the car. Not surprised seems like alot of resort owners think they deserve special treatment. He didnt refuse orders because of the danger he refused because it wasn’t his ranger buddy, he wasn’t rescuing a houseboat, that was done he was retreiving the tender they lost, they weren’t his clients, they were individuals that had violated common navigation laws and put themselves in danger. The paper doesnt seem at all biased either when you read their articles. They do have excellent reviews from customers though.

So, you know the Ebols? You know the circumstances? You know all the details? Or are you just tossing an uneducated opinion out there?

About as educated as anybody elses. At least I looked up more information than just a video and an old IDO post.

Riverrat wrote:

Ebel sounds like an over entitled 2 year old that is screaming about losing his cookie because his mom is making him get in the car. Not surprised seems like alot of resort owners think they deserve special treatment. He didnt refuse orders because of the danger he refused because it wasn’t his ranger buddy, he wasn’t rescuing a houseboat, that was done he was retreiving the tender they lost, they weren’t his clients, they were individuals that had violated common navigation laws and put themselves in danger. The paper doesnt seem at all biased either when you read their articles. They do have excellent reviews from customers though.

Pretty good stretch regardless of what you looked up.

Those rangers knew what was going on, they knew he wasn’t gonna run from them, they saw a opportunity to flex there “federal” law enforcement authority in a situation that it didn’t justify it. Let him do his thing then yell at him or whatever. What the body cam footage doesn’t show you is the seriousness of the situation with the houseboat and the wind and waves.And the panic of his customers. Imo

Riverrat wrote:

Ebel sounds like an over entitled 2 year old that is screaming about losing his cookie because his mom is making him get in the car. Not surprised seems like alot of resort owners think they deserve special treatment. He didnt refuse orders because of the danger he refused because it wasn’t his ranger buddy, he wasn’t rescuing a houseboat, that was done he was retreiving the tender they lost, they weren’t his clients, they were individuals that had violated common navigation laws and put themselves in danger. The paper doesnt seem at all biased either when you read their articles. They do have excellent reviews from customers though.

The rock the houseboat hit usually is marked with a bouy. That bouy was not in place. Earlier that year there was flooding and the park didn’t put hazard markers out because of it. Well after the water went down it took them quite a while to get their markers in place. If anything it was the parks fault for not marking hazards. This wasn’t in a remote section of the park, it happened right in front of the park service docks and the visitor center boat landing. How did you come to the conclusion that the guests violated navigation (I’ll assume you meant Maritime) laws? Or that they weren’t his clients?? Huh?
Who do you think he rents boats to??? Ebel said that he wanted to get the boat and guests into calm waters first before they boarded the houseboat, nothing was “done” as your post claims.

If my 100k+ dollar boat and my guests were in a compromising situation I would throw a fit if someone was trying to interfere too.

So if I rent out my vette to someone who drives it off the interstate when its raining, and when I go to retrieve it from the ditch the troopers show up and say hold up what’s going on, there should be no problem with me just driving off right? Flood warnings were issued three days before the incident, as an owner you might want to point out problem areas to your renters, and just because someone is your client doesn’t mean you get to interfere with an investigation. He had no control of the houseboat he had the little tender, the houseboat was driving in circles talking on the radio to the rangers.