Fight Back ??

This message was posted on Walleye Central by someone from Iowa. It is NOT my post but thought it would be of interest.
Jan-07-03, 10:39 AM (CST)

“Mississippi Locks to Expand-Fight back”

Last night I spoke with a friend who has intimate knowledge of the comings and goings in Congress.
This gentleman calls me on occasion to inform me about legislative initiatives that are in my interests
(fishing/hunting/gun control). He told me that a deal has been cut in Congress that will allow the Corp
of Engineers to expand the locks on the upper Mississippi from the current 300ft to 600ft. This
proposal had been thrown around for the last several years but the Corp and their industrial allies (big
barge shippers) didn’t have the muscle to get it through. Now, the Republican controlled congress is
apparently ready to cut a deal to allow the funding to go to the Corp despite that fact that the Corp
falsified data to support their request and most fisheries experts have indicated this will have a
negative impact on the upper river fishery. Besides being a waste of millions of dollars to subsidize the
shipping industry this is a environmental slap in the face that directly impacts the people on this
board. I hate to profess personal political opinions but…I’ve been a supporter of this party primarily
due to the issues surrounding firearms and I’ve tolerated what many perceive to be anti-environmental
positions by the administration. However, this is hits close to home and is a total waste of
money-straight up pandering to the shipping industry and the Corp. The Republican Party counts
fishing/hunting enthusiasts as a solid base of support. We need to contact our Republican
congressional representatives and inform them that this plan is not in their best interests politically. It
is certainly not in our best interest from a fisheries standpoint. I respect the fact that some of you
may disagree with this position and I welcome your thoughts. Thanks for the soapbox.

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Call me stupid but was does this mean? Expanding the locks…………….what does that do? Explaination anyone? Without some input, I’m not understanding the view. Seeking knowledge here………………….

Expanding the locks will require further channelization and result in degradation of the already dying backwaters.

It’s been amazing to me to see how the Corp got nailed by a whistleblower over falsifying reports to justify this project and things still look to be moving forward. I believe this proposal is focused on pools much further south, but I could be terribly wrong.

Anyone that has further info on this, please post it or the link.

Looks to me like it goes all the way to St. Paul, but the article isn’t very specific:

Overview

Study ‘flawed’

Another link

I don’t believe it will include the far northern locks but then again I can’t tell you where that cut-off line will be. Our lock systems down this way will be expanded from 600ft. to 1200ft. This WILL happen.
Having said that, once the locks are expanded, they will be going for a 12ft channel because of the bigger and heavier barges being built now for this. In most of the pools a 12ft channel will be very easy to attain simply by raising the spillways another 3ft. This WILL happen. You think we have trouble with backwaters filling in now? Just wait!!

I was at a meeting a couple years ago that was talking about lock and damn # 3 . The corp wants to do a big remodel job here.. The DNR was against it because of the huge walleye spawning grounds that it would impact. Haven’t heard alot about it since. But I imagine the new upper management and Bushes help we will have to get up in arms..And Save our environment. I don’t have any new details on this.

From what I’ve heard is that the locks won’t go deeper our wider.But will increase in length so the tows won’t have to break down to make a lock thru.. If it’s true or not who knows???? This well speed up lock time and the barges won’t have to wait their turn for so long.Down south they have a lot more traffic than we do all year long,thats why they would like to get bigger locks?.I think it’s a waste of our money tho.The farmers won’t see a better price on grain from it.Keep a tight line

You’re right Bass Bull, the farmers won’t see one cent of increase in prices for crops shipped by way of an improved locking thru system, even though the farm orginizations are some of the biggest proponents of it. Yes, they have to split the barges up to lock thru, and yes they sometimes have to wait in line. But, the only reason they have to wait in line is because of bad timing on their part. I see tows coming out of the lock chamber in the summer and fall going full bore up or down stream before the crew can even get the last of the barge tie cables fully secured. Sometimes you can even hear them cussing the tow pilot for going so fast before they get done. It’s a race I guess. Then when they get to the next dam, they have to sit and wait.
I’ll say right here and now that if it looks as though I’m not very corps or towing company friendly, it’s because I’m not. It does a slow burn on my behind when I see my tax dollars being spent on something that in the end I feel will hurt the river and it’s resources and in reality, the bill for this project should be footed by the grain buyers and shippers and towing companies.

You have all made some interesting points. Unfortunately many times we are forced to come up with comprimises. I disagree with any activity that will harm the fisherie any further and I would expect harm would occur if lock expansion went downstream from the dam. But probably an oversimpified alternative came to my mind? What if any length expansion was only upstream? Would the negative impact on fisheries be minimized? What do you think?

Being a natural born skeptic of government and it’s bureaucracies,my suspicion and distrust of them perhaps borders on the extreme at times but,that is not the case here.The army corp of engineers mission is to make the nations waterways navigable for commercial traffic.The ensuing environmental consequences were not and are not a concern of theirs.It has only been through the dilligence and hard work of many environmental groups(many of whom,we as fisherman may not totally agree with their philosophy),that some of their schemes have been put on hold or abandoned altogether.Some of the facts pertaining to this latest project have been discussed earlier in this thread and yes,it is true,they were caught red-handed,lying,decieving and bullying their way to get this project ok’ed by congress and yet…it still could happen!The barge industry is THE most heavily subsidized industry in the nation.Translation:it would be cheaper to move the commodities that are currently being moved up and down the river by other available means like trucking or by rail.What does this mean?I don’t know.To me it simply means,some greedy someone,somewhere,is helping to line another greedy someones pockets.We must stay on top of this gentleman and fight it with all our might.If we don’t,future generations will have only a big muddy ditch running from the twin cities to the gulf.There…I’m done now.This is really a pet peeve of mine.It doesn’t show…does it? Mike

I love to read this stuff. Don’t know if its all true but love to keep up on it. What I would like to know is if all this is true does anyone know who to contact to voice an opinion to?

We have lots of readers like myself who will take the time to write a letter/Email to champion a cause if given a little more proof and/or information. I read alot on other sites as well as here from time to time,as what i’ll call belly aching (for lack of a politically correct description), but don’t participate in when not given a course of action to take. Does anyone have a solution or direction to go with this to offer on this post. The places listed on Gianni’s post are not branches of government who make final decisions.

Just throwing it out there. No offense intended. Just wondering how to help?

Thanks for the clarification James! Thanks to the rest of you for sharing your insights!!! Without your input I’d still be in the dark!

Some thoughts… lock expansion is one alternative being evaluated as a part of this study (there are others). Lock expansion would be an extension of certain Locks from 600 to 1200 feet – this would allow barges to lock through without breaking apart (lock expansion would not result in a wider or deeper navigation channel, or a raising of the dams or spillways). Any lock expansion would occur on locks on the lower end of the upper Mississippi. Folks down in IA, IL and MO would see this directly (where most of the navigation traffic is). Folks on the upper part of the river wouldn’t see an expansion, and might not see much of a difference in navigation traffic.

Since the whistleblower incident, the Corps has been directed to give equal consideration to navigation and environmental concerns. Their final report should include discussion on environmental issues and needs.

Obviously, the proof is in the pudding as to whether the environmental side gets equal consideration to navigation. Ultimately, any decision for this project would be made by Congress (the Corps does not have the final say). The U.S. Congress would provide approval and funding for any navigation expansion or environmental restoration and improvements. People to talk to include your U.S. congressional reps – tell them to support funding for more environmental restroration activities on the upper Mississippi.

Here is a link to more opinions/articles, etc. I hope the link comes through….

http://www.walleyecentral.com/dcf/generaldiscussion/23569.html

If they increase the locks they can increase the length of the barge and its payload. G.W. should consider the enviromental effect of this on what H2o reffered to as a “dying backwaters” it will only compound the problem- major eco downside of damning a major river. SILT. I’ve been on the river since the 70’s and its not getting any better. I hate to say it but G.W. is more concerned with money and the economy at whatever cost to the enviroment if what you say is true. Cant we find a leader with a descent moral backround who will not screw the enviroment at any cost to make money/economy

Big E, I didn’t say a 12ft channel would result from the lock expansion. I said a 12ft channel would follow it. It would probably take a few years, (waiting for the dust to settle). The corps has a way of working (out of site, out of mind) on some of these things. Like I said before, it WILL happen.
Can anyof you find out who heads up the appropriations commiteee in congress that gives the corps their annual funding?

I don’t like the barges on the river for a number of reasons, but where can we get some facts? Many of the comments appear to be based on emotion or conjecture. Why would lock expansion lead to a twelve foot channel? How or why would they only do part of the locks? Wouldn’t they just back up at one that is not expanded? What additional specific harm would be realized on the environment? To expand so a tow can lock through without doing a double lock would cause tows to get bigger so they still would do a double lock? I am unable to follow that reasoning! Call me stupid or whatever but we need facts. Where can we read some of the study information? There must be volumes of data out there for $56 miilion already spent on research? If further studies are needed, (and they probably are needed) is that another $56 million? Outragous to think of $$$. What is the specific payback to the taxpayer? That needs to be quantified and made public. The Corp needs to be held responsible for their operations with respect to the environment. We have also seen how inept they can be in the various flood control impoundments around the country as well. I think they need a new mission statement that does give equal consideration to environmental impact. Sorry about the rant, just my nickles worth, with as much emotion as I can muster, again! Ah what the hey, let’s have some more views. It is good reading.

I’d made my mind up that my last post was going to be indeed, my last post because I have a tendancy to become a bit irate about certain subjects brought up on this site.
With the expansion, I doubt we would see longer strings of barges. but they will become deeper in body to carry more payload. They are being designed now. They will only be able to run a certain portion of the river since the lock expansion won’t include the upper pools. But where the line will be drawn, I don’t know that one.
I really don’t have a problem with the idea of lock expansion. I have a serious problem with the idea of a 12ft. channel. The only way to get a 12ft channel is not by dredging it to that depth, but by adding height to the spillways and that will result in more flooding, loss of fish and game habitat, forever, and more tax dollars to subsidize the drainage districts and their operations in the areas where we live down this way. I can’t show you facts on paper, but then again I’m not getting this from my crystal ball either. Let’s just say I have accquaintances and we talk once in a while.
Forget about any payback to the taxpayer. I doubt the price of my food or heating bills will decrease because of faster shipping time.
Holding the corps responsible for anything is a joke in itself. You can’t control mother nature or what she does.
After the whistle blower incident they said they’d be more enviroment friendly with the rest of their study. I guess it quieted the enviromental people for a while, which is all they intended to do anyway.
I’ve gone on long enough. This IS my last post about this subject. Honest Absolutely Really

The Corps of Engineers has a Newletter on the Navigation Study that anyone can get. There is also lots of information posted on the internet.
For general study information, call Denny Lundberg (309-794-5632)(Attn:cemvr-pm). Internet info is posted at http:www.mvr.usace.army.mil/PublicAffairsOffice/NavigationStudy.htm
Information on Public Involvement meetings call 800-872-8822 or call Kevin Bluhm (651-290-5247).
To be added to the mailing list to receive periodic updates on the Naivgation Study, call 800-872-8822 or write:
U.S Army Corps of Engineers, Rock Island
Clock Tower Building
P.O. Box 2004
Rock Island, Il 61204-2004
ATTN:CEMVR-PM-A

Another newletter readers may with to subscribe to is the UMRCC Newletter. The UMRCC (Upper Mississippi Conservation Committee) is comprised of bioligist from the 5 states (MN, WI, IA, ILL, MO) that comprise the Upper Mississippi River as well as Federal agencies (Fish & wildlife Service, etc).
The groups main concern is to keep environmental issues (many with respect to navigation) on the front burner and to keep everyone aware of what is going on.
Subscribe by calling or writing:
UMRCC Coordinator
4469 48th Ave, Court
Rock Island, IL 61201
309-793-5800

Web-site:
http://www.mississippi-river.com/umrcc

I’d like to address the issue of “emotion” involving this issue.First of all,I think FTR is a wonderful site.I visit at least once a day,usually,much more(I hope my boss doesn’t read this)Walleyes seem to be the predominant fish of subject on this forum.Click on any of the guides that guide on the Miss and you will see them proudly displaying walleyes,walleyes and more walleyes,with the occasional sauger,smally or maybe a big nor.Further,my guess would be that most of their business is from people who want to catch walleye and sauger…and don’t get me wrong,this is a good thing.The walleye and sauger fishing on the Miss is nothing short of phenomenal because,the walleye and sauger fisheries have not yet been impacted by the sedimentation that is taking place on the river and it’s backwaters.My point is this,it’s pretty tough to get emotional about something that you or your favorite species to pursue,have not been affected by.This is not the case with panfish.There are some of us who have witnessed first hand,the degradation of,what once were prime panfish waters and yes,it is an emotional issue for us.However,I did not come here to rant again about the degradation of panfish habitat but,to simply try to explain why this issue does rile some of us more than others and to offer a few links ( I hope they work…if not someone tell me how to make them work)that may help us all understand that this is not just emotion and conjecture and maybe some contacts that will be of some help to us.The degradation of the river and it’s backwaters,will affect us all sooner or later.Mike http://www.cleanriver.org/ http://www.northstar.sierraclub.org/mr_mississipi_river.htm http://www.riverofdreams.org/introduction.html http://www.taxpayer.net/corpswatch/troubledwaters/projects/uppermiss.htm

The second link doesn’t work and unfortunately,it’s one of the more interesting ones.To get there,go to yahoo,type “mississippi revival” into the search engine.When the page opens,it should be the second link down titled “Mississippi River Home Page”.In fact,the whole page has some interesting links.Mike

Another link I forgot was the one to American Rivers:
http://www/amrivers.org
http://www.amrivers.org/pressrelease/misspress2.28.01.htm

This is a bit of a tangent but I want to make a couple of points of consideration before we blame our politicians for everything. They don’t have all the answers and they’re not going to make everyone happy.

Consider this:
If GW doesn’t focus on economic strategies, he’s going to take the blame for the mess the Clinton administration left behind. We had banner years with Billy but the truth is the Pres. isn’t responsible for, nor does he control the economy. But because he’s involved in the gov’t budget plan, he has to respond to the economic issues. There are millions out there that don’t care about the environment because they’re wondering where their next paycheck or meal is coming from. You’ve got parents concerned over the nutrition of their children because of economic strains and they’re supposed put an environmental issue in front of their kids? I’m sorry, but if I knew it was an animal or fish or my kids going hungry, the wildlife loses!

The bigger picture is bigger than I think any of us have a complete grip on but what I see is that we’re trying to solve problems that have been continuously pushed forward by past administrations and everything’s coming to a head. Sooner or later, something’s got to give. GW’s administration recognizes that if they put special interest before the greater concerns of a larger public issue, they’ll get ousted from their jobs. We the people are crying out to the government for so much, and there’s only so much they can do. We like to believe that the environment, because we all live, eat, and breathe it, is more important. But, if your employers downsize, pick up and relocate to a cheaper country of business, fall victim to economic strains, go corrupt, you lose a job, a new one to meet your needs is getting impossible to find, your house is losing value, the inflation rate explodes……………yes, it’s a depressing picture but it’s one we dealt with from 1929 to 1944. Well, guess what? All things cycle and America is going to go through it again………….but no one wants to. They’re working on it’s prevention, willing to sacrifice special interest to get it done. But what’s our answer to their challenge? They’re trying to fix issues that have been getting pushed forward since WWII. Sooner or later, it can’t go forward any longer and things have to collapse and rebuild. Hello economic merry-go-round!!!

Now, I’m not trying to claim that lock expansions are going to fix anything economically………….I’d disagree if anyone said it could. So I’m favor of it not happening, but I see alot of accusations stating that our current administration doesn’t care about the environment and we really have no idea what their up against. Yes, they actually do care, but now………….they can’t afford to ignore the issues on their desks and they MUST be addressed or we’ll have no nation to protect the environment of!!!

BTW, the next depression is predicted to span from 2016 to 2042. The American “Titanic” is trying to divert a 26 year “iceberg”. The great nation that “can’t be sunk” is heading for a big problem. They’re trying to steer this “ship” to avoid it and we’re not turning very well.

Enough soap box for me. But consider, these things ARE a factor and what’s YOUR role in THOSE issues?

To defend the Bush administration in this is obviously pointless, I am not a Democrat, I am not a Republican, I vote for the person I best see fit during a certain election. The Bush administration has made it plainly obvious over the past two years that big business is their number one concern, no matter how they try to twist this around to be for the good of America, it’s B.S., and we need to recognize it. I’m not talking about the economy, or any other issue other than the current topic of lock expansion, and any other environmental issue that gets victimized by the Bush administration, as sportsman and women, we need to stop supporting these people because of reasons like “The NRA says so”, and “Charleston Heston is my President”.

I hesitate to even comment because this isn’t a debate, a political endorsement, or the place to “get into it”. As fired up as I’d like to get, I’m going sit back and realize that we’re probably accumulating our information from different resources. I fear by your response that MUCH of what I was really saying has been missed. I care not to speculate why. GW, Gore, Ross Perot, or Mickey Mouse……….it’s not a matter of who’s in office. Right now there’s a bigger picture and yes, it comes with some sacrifices…………as all decisions do. Until we understand the “why” things are being done the way they’re being done, the only BS is us for not caring enough to dig deeper. I don’t like environmental loss, damage, strain, or ignorance. I’m not saying anything that causes this to be right. But there are issues that need to be addressed and just like EVERYTHING that touches our lives, it comes at a price. The pronounced lack of interest in our environment is there because it doesn’t hold a candle to the bigger issues. What lies on their desks now concerns the futures and well being of our children and our grandchildren, and beyond. I can’t look my kids in the eyes and tell them some animal or fish is more important than they are! Secure this country, our futures, our way of life……………then we can environment ourselves blue to the core.

In reply to:

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the next depression is predicted to span from 2016 to 2042

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Need a source, bud – this is the sort of speculative stuff I absolutely love to read. I remember an article (perhaps on Mises or one of the other Libertarian websites) a couple years ago that said we would have a second civil war within our lifetimes. It would be interesting to go back and look at their predictions to see how things are playing out.

Herb: Last I checked, appropriations was headed up by our own Jim Nussle – who’s district includes the upper Miss NWR.

Come on Herb, one more. Actually this all very interesting information.

Whoops, just got some time to double-check. Nussle is chair of the budget committee. Appropriations is Regula of Ohio. Still, he would not be ignorant of the impact due to the heavy commercial use of the Ohio river and the impacts the corps has had there.

“Prophecy” by Robert Kiyosaki. This isn’t science fiction. This is cumulative research, taught by his financial mentor and countless other “wizards” of finance. You’ll just need to read it to get the bigger picture. The prediction is there but loosely stated. It’s more a projection than a list of predictions or visions of some wingnut. Don’t let the title fool you.

We can pursue this further but let’s take it to pm’s.

Stillakid2–I read your post the other night, thought about it and went back and re-read it today. It sure makes alot of sense and shows you have been thinking about the BIG picture. Everything out there all ties together in one way or another and we are the very lucky ones. How many people out there are barely surviving in life while we worry about what the Government will do with our walleye fishing. Don’t get me wrong-it is important to me but this world is getting to be one dangerous place anymore. Who could blame our leaders if they get railroaded or lied to about certain projects when they have Iraq and North Korea on their plates. Just my 2 cents worth.