Mn education

HOW DID THIS HAPPEN, POUR SOME MORE MONEY ON IT!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mn-education-scores-lowest-in-decades/ar-AA18bewi?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=dc8ec6dbe182434de48e2fcb66bc765a&ei=5

It is very evident. Being newly elected to a school board I struggle to look at all the data and seeing blatant trends, whether academically or financially and status quo thought process has been the norm year over year. Complacency kills and parents need to speak up demanding change.

This article says 19 school districts, everywhere else I’ve seen says 19 schools.

Go onto the MN Department of Education and go to their school/district report cards and type in your ISD. I have for dozens and dozens of schools. For anyone to say we are trending positively is on another planet. Data doesn’t lie.

MN Education system = doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting different results …. plenty of blame to go around, but nobody really wants to do anything about it… just keep electing the same homegrown fools being led around by the nose / MN teachers union in my opinion. God forbid there be any kind of competition here or consequences for such pathetic scores as that would require accountability …

Here’s a novel idea – More reading/writing/math, less social engineering would be a good start ( hey, I can dream)

Paulski

jimmysiewert wrote:

Go onto the MN Department of Education and go to their school/district report cards and type in your ISD. I have for dozens and dozens of schools. For anyone to say we are trending positively is on another planet. Data doesn’t lie.

Well that makes me all warm and fuzzy. I would like to thank ya but a
25% decline in math
15% decrease in reading
12% decline in science

aint really cutting it, in a supposedly “top tier” school district. I didnt even know the info was out there. Im guessing they dont want us to know

Is it the school’s failure or is it a general decline in our society? I would argue without parental help in teaching kids, the schools can’t do it. It seems every part of our society has gotten dumber.

Has this been on the local news or has it been hidden from the public?

TH wrote:

It seems every part of our society has gotten dumber.

I’m not disagreeing but I would be willing to wager a bet that every generation has said the same thing since time immemorial. Could be they’ve all been correct lol

IMO the issue at hand can’t be solved at the federal, or state level. Each district/school are going to have to come up with unique solutions. I am going to be a huge proponent in my school district to get ALL the stakeholders involved, down to the students (Voice of the Customer) and come up with collective solutions that have actions identified to drive improvements. It will not happen being complacent.

IMO a part of it is the parents wanting change and something “better”. The basic ways of teaching math, reading etc shouldn’t need to change. It worked for generation upon generation. Now they need to come up with “new” ways to teach it because it needs to be “better”.
I’m also of the belief that open enrollment has been a huge detriment to our education system. Schools are now more worried about having lots of shiny new toys and college level athletic facilities to draw in kids/parents fro.. outside their district because more kids equals more money. Schools need to go back to being block buildings with basic classrooms. They don’t need top flight weight rooms, padded indoor tracks, flat screen tvs every 20 feet etc.

I also would like to see numbers from pre COVID for these same districts.

Brent Siebenaler wrote:

I also would like to see numbers from pre COVID for these same districts.

the post from jimmy up at the top for the mn dept of ed goes back 5 years to 2018. Thats where I pulled the numbers from for my kids school. I checked all 3 elementary middle and high. All were down since that point

Brent Siebenaler wrote:

I also would like to see numbers from pre COVID for these same districts.

My daughter is in first grade. We just had conferences and although she is doing very well most of her class is a mess. These are the kids who were approximately 3 years old when Covid hit. There is little doubt the masking and distance learning negatively affected students and likely this age of development the most.

I have commented on education numerous times here and been told I know nothing “MY school district isn’t like that”
Not all are but we fall further and further behind every year in this country. I spent 34 years in a cabinet level position ( I KNOW the insides and outsides of budgets, union contracts, state/federal aid, COVID pots of money…..)
Anyone who wants to have an honest dialogue I would be happy to hear from you.
Just had an outing today. Many of the folks are in education. One friend just started a new job in an upscale district – about 3,000 students. Was incredulous at what he is finding along with the new superintendent and business manager. They have budget codes tied to NOWHERE ( they are not correct) with money going in and out (lots) and can’t find it. Cutting 5 million and not sure where that will place them right now?!
This is NOT uncommon folks. The level of administration in many districts would be fired in the private sector. LOTS of “check the box” positions hired with minimal accountability or ability to track impacts. We are teaching to the lowest common denominator right now whether you want to be believe it or.
What would be “fun” to see is private and charter/magnet schools taking the same standardized tests to see the results. I know a number of administrators in those settings who are getting MUCH better results without public school employee contracts.
I AM NOT bashing teachers. The majority of our issues stem from leadership and state requirements.
The latest governor’s race WAS CORRECT when he said it was a black hole – it is. Unfortunately the largest union is this state is teachers and education is the prized pet of so many Minnefornians so he shot himself in the foot there.
Adding MORE money to this is not going to solve it.

Look at MPLS and ST. Paul numbers on the MDE site-
These ratings, while “carved in stone” can also be manipulated just like a budget Excel spreadsheet to make it appear the way you want. You have to know how to ask the RIGHT questions. Shell games with state and federal dollars occur ALL the time.
We were 5 figures a year busing students to homes outside our district, in CABS.
It is a long and not so lustrous list of unbelievable expenditures.

This is all being done intentionally.
An educated population is more difficult to control.
The people who hold titles in Americas power-wielding institutions are put there on purpose.
George Carlin, a comedian, recognized this over two decades ago and put it in his stand-up comedy routine in 2005. I do not want to link to it here because it’s George Carlin, but it’s easy to find at u-toob – George Carlin why does the education system suck?
Our children, and their children have a monumental task ahead of them. I apologize to them for the generations before mine and my own, for our lack of awareness to changes in how America is truly run. In our defense, that too, was intentional.

Covid did our kids no favors but the real issue is all the “new to MN” folks that are being brought in by the churches and other legislative groups.

The governor was in education, he should know how to fix this, right?
You should read what the education union sends out! It’s disgusting really how they will preach inclusion for everyone but their “voter guide” only goes to one party.
My wife is a teacher and could write a book or 3 about how parents that don’t read to or work with their kids are always behind.

stout93 wrote:

Has this been on the local news or has it been hidden from the public?

Like all news, you get what they want to tell you and pulls at your heart. This just makes everyone look bad.

Umy wrote:

I have commented on education numerous times here and been told I know nothing “MY school district isn’t like that”
Not all are but we fall further and further behind every year in this country. I spent 34 years in a cabinet level position ( I KNOW the insides and outsides of budgets, union contracts, state/federal aid, COVID pots of money…..)
Anyone who wants to have an honest dialogue I would be happy to hear from you.
Just had an outing today. Many of the folks are in education. One friend just started a new job in an upscale district – about 3,000 students. Was incredulous at what he is finding along with the new superintendent and business manager. They have budget codes tied to NOWHERE ( they are not correct) with money going in and out (lots) and can’t find it. Cutting 5 million and not sure where that will place them right now?!
This is NOT uncommon folks. The level of administration in many districts would be fired in the private sector. LOTS of “check the box” positions hired with minimal accountability or ability to track impacts. We are teaching to the lowest common denominator right now whether you want to be believe it or.
What would be “fun” to see is private and charter/magnet schools taking the same standardized tests to see the results. I know a number of administrators in those settings who are getting MUCH better results without public school employee contracts.
I AM NOT bashing teachers. The majority of our issues stem from leadership and state requirements.
The latest governor’s race WAS CORRECT when he said it was a black hole – it is. Unfortunately the largest union is this state is teachers and education is the prized pet of so many Minnefornians so he shot himself in the foot there.
Adding MORE money to this is not going to solve it.

Yes, there is so much wasted money in the schools. They spend it and then when they need more they just go to vote for another referendum to raise taxes even more. Of course it passes because everyone want to help the kids. But, if people really knew how poorly there taxes were being managed and spent by the schools I think the results would be a lot different.

My daughters school has a fun run fundraiser where they raise money for their school by asking for pledges towards running laps in a race. For each lap they run, you donate so much. This is a weeks long event where they entice the kids with stupid prizes that end up in the trash, to go home and ask for pledges from Mom, Dad, Grandparents, friends and neighbors. Here’s the catch, they don’t even count the laps! They automatically give each kid 35 laps. Can you imagine grandpa pledging $10 a lap figuring the kid is good for 10 laps max to then find out it was 35. He now is donating $350! And it gets better, this whole fundraiser is put on by Booster Enterprises. Guess how much this outfit pockets from putting on this event? 50% of the donations! For example, the school advertised they raised $40,000 from this event. This was after Booster Enterprises cut, so really they raised $80,000! Who ever is running Booster Enterprises is getting rich off the schools and the students.

brandyman wrote:

My wife is a teacher and could write a book or 3 about how parents that don’t read to or work with their kids are always behind.

I believe this is a big part of the problem, lack of parents support and involvement in their childs education. Their education and teaching doesn’t just happen at school, it happens at home too. My wife tells me all the time about how she talks to someone and they rarely read to their kids and they wonder why our daughter, a second grader is reading so well. I truly believe it’s because we have been reading to her since she was months old. Every night at bedtime we read to her. Now she is reading to us. My wife and I have been volunteering in our daughters classroom, we help the kids with their reading and math worksheet assignments. The teacher is so grateful for this help and has commented on how she can tell the ones who have support at home.

CaptainMusky wrote:

Covid did our kids no favors but the real issue is all the “new to MN” folks that are being brought in by the churches and other legislative groups.

Covid did the children no favors ??? Why not every parent agreed I thought ???.
Now we talk about churches lol..
I have more dairy farms then them lol. Use reality, not fairy tales

Bearcat89 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>CaptainMusky wrote:</div>
Covid did our kids no favors but the real issue is all the “new to MN” folks that are being brought in by the churches and other legislative groups.

Covid did the children no favors ??? Why not every parent agreed I thought ???.
Now we talk about churches lol..
I have more dairy farms then them lol. Use reality, not fairy tales

Huh?
Many people in this state agreed with the “state” doctrine re masks and distance learning. They swallowed the COVID menace hook line and sinker. Churches and your govt ( state and local) invite everyone on the planet here for you to support. PERIOD. I have spent time in those conversations and ministerial groups too.
Understand this,COVID has eliminated ANY need for planning for weather as “distance learning” is already in place. When Walzo tells us it’s too cold to go utside because it’s only 0 degrees we’ll just do distance learning. Childcare alone is killing parents for this not to mention a dozen other fallout factors that arise from distance learning.
You should see technology costs these days ………..
5,6,7,8,year olds have NO BUSINESS having to learn online. If they’re gonna be expected to teach themselves then cut out the middleman.
Last comment on this thread – I stated last year – you are going to see an even wider gap develop because public schools are going to become the haven for low performing students and students with special needs as anyone with money and a brain is playing the open enrollment game, private school game and it’s why magnet schools are exploding. The St. Paul union went to the state leadership to oppose any more magnets from being built or opened in their district because their losing so many students. Huh, how about we look at the ROOT cause instead?

Bingo on the two words “root cause”
All that continues to get done – if anything – are Band-Aid approach’s. It starts with holding Administrations accountable at the school district level.

I just keep teaching the kids as much as I know and keep letting the schools do there part. I go to school board meetings and make my feelings and thought heard. You’d be surprised by how many do not do such a thing, but they sit back and complain.
My 13 year old is a small percent of 1 grade from the a honor roll. He has 6 A’s and 1 B+. The distance learning I don’t partake in. If I’m the teacher then the lessons are about life not bs history the public school systems pick. Seems to be working great.

The education system is far from perfect, but the clientele are changing.

56% of kids in our local district are from split families. ~35% qualify for free or reduced lunches. 30 years ago I’d bet those percentages weren’t half that here locally.

Keep in mind, there are generally 170-175 school days in a year which last roughly from 8am – 3pm. Kids are in school right around 1200 hours per year at most (with perfect attendance).

^The average student spends somewhere around 10-13% of the hours in a year in a school. The other 87-90% of the time they are under the influence of those at home.

Schools have their share of problems, but they don’t hold a candle to the issues at home that kids are spending a majority of their time enduring. Parenting/home life is the #1 factor to learning and success for kids. Period.

Excellent point on school time and parental involvement. Clientele is a key here as well.
Parental involvement IS NUMBER ONE IN IMPORTANCE. don’t care where you’re from, your religion gender race – should not matter. It is the parent’s responsibility to play that significant role in their child’s education.
Given the direction the current leadership is going much of our involvement is not what it should or could be. Schools are tied to funding streams and the teachers unions. They bow to the current leadership and unions take their cue from there. Curriculum, discipline, schedules, calendars – all are driven by the union leadership.
To a point Bucky, that 13% is pretty key for MOST kids. Significant relationships developed, attitudes about adults, add to that social media now and what society is telling them to be and do and what is right and wrong from a teacher and then a parent telling them otherwise they have many difficult choices.
It is NOT the same as thirty years ago. Maybe it shouldn’t be but we were taught personal responsibility, not everyone wins and hard work lifts you up.
The VERY thing about this country that makes it so special is that education is free and available to everyone. Whether you access it or not is up to you. Families expect schools to take more and more responsibility. We take children out of the classroom because a virus is going to kill them. We send them home to learn on their own, we make their parent/s stay home and lose work time to accommodate this. We don’t teach music or art because there isn’t enough time in the day, same for PE – every district approaches this differently. We allow social media to dominate their world – yes this is where the powers that be need to step in- children DO NOT BEED PHONES at school. Tell parents it’s not an option. Revisit teaching to the mandated tests and revise our approach on standardized tests. STOP with the equity war and get back to teaching kids life skills.
Couple this with the govt mandate on masking, distance learning, hiring teachers, administrators via “check the box” hiring procedures, penalizing parents and calling them “social terrorists” for speaking up and getting involved in their child’s education, telling an admin they can’t discipline children of color because that’s racist….. the list is long on what needs help.
To say they are only at school for a brief period of their lives is to ignore ALL of what they are “learning” in school from both their teachers, peers and significant adults there.

As a teacher from WI I’d like to share a few thoughts. I know WI is not MN, but I have a feeling our two states have more in common than we do apart. As others have mentioned districts have significant issues from admin down to support staff, and the pandemic has only exacerbated learning gaps emerging in children. As others have also mentioned the home life and involvement of parents is a GIGANTIC factor in success of students. We were one of only 3 districts within our region to start the year with a full staff. Recruitment within education is only increasing gaps. I’m one of two “young teacher’s” in my building of almost 50 teaching staff at an age of 30. I have not had a single student teaching applicant in 5 years despite me cooperating and being certified to host “student- teachers” with the local universities. Our district had to hire one individual, who has no state certifications or credentials other than was an accountant, to teach math. Not their fault, they have struggled to do something they haven’t been taught to do, or learned even in their life experience. Not sure on MN’s teaching stats, but nationwide, the number of people who want to and are willing to teach is decreasing rapidly. And maybe the solution is in the future AI is just going to educate our kids because it is smarter than human beings.

With regard to data and state mandated testing I’d like you to consider this anecdotal conversation this week on Tuesday. Me: “Hey everyone, just so you know we will be having our state testing in two weeks, so we will be doing prep work so that you can become familiar with the testing program over the next couple weeks. Student: “Why do we have state testing? I heard from my dad it doesn’t matter.” Me: Well the state requires it so that they have information to compare districts based on how well they are doing and how well the staff members are performing.” Student: “So it doesn’t effect my grade?” Me: “Correct, all that we are asking of you all is to give us your best effort.” Student: “So you are telling me that if I just click through the questions it doesn’t matter to me?” Me: “Well your answers do matter, they matter a lot to our district and to our staff.” Student: “Well I don’t care about you, the district, or the other teachers.” Keep in mind this was an isolated conversation between me and the student prior to the beginning of class. Before long this same student is chatting with their buddies at lunch and the same pervasive mindset has impacted not just one, but a larger group of middle school students.

As a teacher no matter how much I emphasize and try to teach the significance of learning while in school, I cannot enforce a mindset upon my students to care. I hold them accountable to the things I can assess, the things I can grade. It’s the old “lead a horse to water” thing. I lead my classroom with as much honesty and integrity as possible, teaching character, content, and life skills and I am as strict as I can be while still trying to accommodate for my students being young and making mistakes from time to time.

So what would you do if you were faced with that situation? As a teacher or as a student? Should I have lied to the student and said yea, I’m going to give you participation by trying to “judge” the effort you put forth on the testing? I could have sent the student to the office to speak with an administrator who would have no doubt sternly talked to the student about the need to put forth maximum effort, but at that point, the student going into the conversation has already made up their mind. And even though I as the teacher never get to see my students grades on these state tests, I can almost guarantee you the number one factor that determines the results for students on their state mandated tests from middle school age and above is intrinsic motivation. Those who care and try will do better, even if I have a whiz kid, who is the top of the class, if they are not motivated by their own will to succeed and do well and prove it to themselves, there is almost nothing I can do. That is not an excuse, that is reality. And I’m sure there are some of you tough, strict, fire and brimstone folks out there who will think to yourself, well I’d chew the student out and that would teach them, if I were the teacher “my students” would never not give me maximum effort, I would demand it. If you are the CEO of a company, you can fire someone for lack of effort, lack of accountability. What does any school have to enforce effort in students, if not intrinsically motivated? Should we just “fire” the student for not trying? Because no doubt they will drive down the scores that reflect upon me and our school? Nope can’t do that. I could assign a consequence for such “inappropriate conduct,” but is that truly going to change the mindset of the student about the testing, nope, they already know it isn’t going to impact them, even before they asked me the original question. Heck they will probably try even harder to deliberately do poorly to have it reflect back on me if I assign a consequence.

And you can say, their attitude reflects their leadership if you want to lump myself and other teachers all into the same group that is responsible for the downfall of “kids these days” and that it is my responsibility to motivate my students. It is my job to try and motivate my students, I am only given so many tools in the classroom to do those things. I and so many others are agonizing constantly to find new ways to help change their minds that teachers and education are not the enemy of society and that actually trying is not a bad thing.

After 7 years of teaching it has become more and more apparent to me that teaching is not the honorable profession it once was, where teachers were respected members of society. All too often after parent teacher conferences, board meetings, and endless emails all I feel like doing is leaving to work a factory job, I don’t want recognition, I don’t need anyone’s thanks, I don’t want sympathy. I want to do my job with the support of the public, I want schools to be accountable and do everything within their power to help students learn, but I also want society and parents to keep pulling their share of the load and helping us as educators pull in the same direction for the good of our students. Heck, I don’t even go out to the bar and have a few drinks with my wife locally because if I do the local facebook group rumor mill will start spreading and before I know it, I’m a drunk who doesn’t know how to teach.

In the last 7 years of my experience it’s become pretty clear that there is a lot fewer people in our world, parents, teachers, and students who are willing to pull in the same direction to achieve things today. Most people would rather just do their own thing, because they know what is best. Everyone is inherently selfish, not shaming those who have convictions in their “way” or their “process” but let’s not just gloss over the role that society at large plays in motivating, creating accountability, and cultivating pervasive mindsets that impact students views on education and their ownership in their own learning.

Very good viewpoint icefanatic11. That is why I, a member of our school board, wants a collaborative approach to work through the challenges. Not just the teachers; not just the school board or administrators – but parents snd students too. ALL the stakeholders to come up with solutions!!

icefanatic11, thanks for doing what you do, and good follow-up by jimmy. Icefanatic mentioned that the teaching profession isn’t the honorable, respected position it once was and provided a good example. I think that’s a microcosm of our society in general. Look at what most have considered honorable, respectable professions for generations in this country-teachers, police, military, etc. Nowadays it doesn’t matter what side it is, something will trigger the Republican right or the liberal left and the insults will start flying, and we lose respect. I’ve been dumbfounded over the last few years seeing the disrespect shown toward our military.

And I agree with what many others have pointed out-it sounds so cliche, but these kids were raised a few years before they got to school, they’re home nights, weekends, holidays, summers, etc. Kids need to be taught respect, ambition, work ethic, values, etc. outside of school, not the other way around.

I won’t pretend to know the answers. I think a lot of it is society, and both sides of the political aisle create their own roadblocks to an honorable, productive, respectful society.

Education trending down in the USA = Social media

I honestly think parents, staff and students spend too much time on their persona l devices (social media) and not enough time in person. Just look at IDO forum, a lot of you post everyday lol, no offense. Kids/students are largely influenced by “influencers” on social media for example, all these new words and abbreviations that I’ve never heard of are coming out of kids mouths. And then the whole “do whatever you want” videos on social media drives kids think and do just that. As a parent, education for my kids starts with me at home. No other distractions other than time spent with each other. My kids are doing great in school but it is and will be an everyday process. Just seems like no one wants to “work” anymore lol.