I-da-ho Elk

I trade billions every day. $700 billion is nothing.

I think its about half the yearly budget

As a country we are now 11.5 Trillion dollars in debt, and growing daily.

Show me the people qualified to handle the $700 Billion.

Prove to me that if I give you $700 Billion today you won’t be back in 2 months looking for more.

Show me that the guy’s who ran this scam are in jail and in fact are not the same guy’s buying up the same properties at even deeper discounts and getting even wealthier.

Prove to me that the money mongers are not in fact running the elections on both parties……….then I will approve of your bailout.

Remember this age old saying………..

“Figures don’t lie, if liars don’t figure.”

But really……..I have no opinion.

To keep this thread from getting dusted as a “political thread” keep the Republicans versus Democrats stuff out of the discussion. We try to allow as much as we can but it must stay on the topic of economics or government without turning to the same old party crud that gets these discussions axed.

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Prove to me that if I give you $700 Billion today you won’t be back in 2 months looking for more.

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I will sign anything that you want, swear upon my life, and you have my word that you will never hear from me again

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No. He was implying that the government passed law that required lending institutions to hand out risky loans. Just the opposite. There were laws on the books that prevented it. The Clinton administration let those law expire.

-J.

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Not quite correct Jon….

Your forgetting the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Reform Act of 1999..

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I used the term expire, they repealed Glass Stealge

But to be fair, the Congress was controlled by the Republicans and hindsight is always 20/20.

Speaking of the Republicans, since the 2004 elections, they have been spending money like drunken sailors. Both at state and national levels. There is plenty of so called “Blame” to go around. (See last line of article below)

Wade, from here on out, I’ll do my best not to lean too for right on my commentary.

Lastly, an enlightening commentary from Marketwatch today. It points out many things I believe in. Carefull calling the package a bailout. Think positive and read between the lines of the media you choose to get your news from and try to form your own opinion, not the one the press or people on the internet (Like me) say )

IRWIN KELLNER

Don’t call it a bailout. Or a depression

Commentary: The nattering nabobs of negativism have it wrong. Here’s why

By Irwin Kellner, MarketWatch

Last update: 10:41 p.m. EDT Sept. 28, 2008

Comments: 314

PORT WASHINGTON, N.Y. (MarketWatch) — We are nowhere near a depression, so let’s stop talking ourselves into one.

Spiro Agnew’s words of the Nixon era ring true today. The politicians, pundits and, yes, the press, are nattering nabobs of negativism.

For example, in recent weeks, the broadcast and the print media have filed stories replete with scare words. You don’t even have to look at the tabloids to see what I mean.

The front page of the New York Times recently described what it called “chaos” in the financial markets.

Not to be outdone, most of the first section of The Wall Street Journal one day last week was devoted to articles describing the “spreading crisis” in our economy.

And both newspapers have run stories using the word “depression” more times than I care to count.

Now, don’t get me wrong, I am not saying things aren’t serious out there, but another Great Depression? I don’t think so.

If you look at the data, you will see more differences than similarities between the 1930s and today:

• In the crash of 1929 the Dow Jones industrials plunged 40% in two months; this time around it has taken a year to fall 22%.

• The jobless rate jumped to 25% by 1933; it is little more than 6% today.

• The gross domestic product shrank by 25% during the early 1930s; it is up over 3% during the past year.

• Consumer prices fell by about 30% from 1929 to 1933; and the last time I looked they were still rising.

• Home prices dropped more than 30% during the Depression vs. about 16% today.

• Some 40% of all mortgages were delinquent by 1934 compared with 4% today.

• In the 1930s, more than 9,000 banks failed compared with fewer than 20 over the past couple of years.

Remember also it was policy errors, not the stock market crash, that caused the Great Depression:

• Instead of increasing the money supply, the Federal Reserve of that era reduced it by one-third.

• Instead of lowering taxes, Herbert Hoover raised them.

• And to channel whatever demand was left into U.S.-made goods, the government enacted the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act to keep out foreign products; this only provoked our trading partners to do the same.

Add to this today’s automatic stabilizers such as unemployment insurance and Social Security, the FDIC to insure bank deposits and circuit breakers to keep stocks from falling too quickly, and you can see why this is not a depression in any way shape or form.

While I am at it, I would like to take issue with the almost ubiquitous use of the word “bailout” to describe the government’s rescue package.

Folks, this is not a bailout of anyone, not Wall Street, not Main Street, and certainly not the so-called “fat cats.” It’s an infusion of liquidity, designed to unclog the financial markets. In doing so, it will benefit everyone, business and consumers alike.

Also, the $700 billion bandied about will not be immediately handed over to the Treasury secretary; he will simply have a line of credit, similar to what the typical business might have.

Finally, this package may not even cost $700 billion. For that matter, it may wind up costing nothing. It all depends on the price the government pays for these distressed assets and what it winds up selling them for.

As for whom to blame for this mess, there is plenty to go around. In the words of that great philosopher, Pogo: “We have met the enemy and he is us.”

Irwin Kellner is chief economist for MarketWatch, and is Distinguished Scholar of Economics at Dowling College in Oakdale, N.Y.

-J.

hmmm sounds reasonable… though I havent heard the words we are in a depression (and not often “we are heading” there)…. honestly… they say we are not in an “official” recession…. though some seem to expect one to be declared….
Id say its pretty hard to compare what happened in the great depression to whats going on now… in fact why bother to try? history is only useful in helping us not to repeat our mistakes… the mistakes we made for THAT disaster have not been repeated.. thats about as far as we need to go down that path….
call it a bailout… or call it solid gold…. nothing will change what it really is…. but what is it REALLY? I think its going to be history that gives the real name…. right now we just have opinions… or people like me who really dont know what to think….
as for me.. Im keeping my fingers crossed that they know what they are doing and that it will all work out… it does appear to me that for the most part they worked at fixing a problem instead of blame…. though no doubt the witch hunt is about to begin… once the smoke clears and there are people standing there with no reasonable alibi… of course it may well be they are not guilty.. but its funny how justice can work… sure your innocent until proven guilty…. but there are times when guilt is easier to prove than innocense… so the deck is stacked against you….
I like how the fingers point in every direction now… maybe it should just stay that way we all need to take credit for our role, greed was rampant, not just on wall street…
we need the problem fixed.. and prevented in the future.. and then forget about it (other than the painful lessons that need to be remembered).. and go on living life and being happy as best we can….

I hate all this talk about how this is the worst crisis since the depression. Sure, the financial markets are in turmoil, but look at the economy of the 70s. Gas lines, 10% inflation, 10% unemployment, 14-18% mortgage loans.

Can anyone with a straight face say that things are worse now????

Exactly.

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I hate all this talk about how this is the worst crisis since the depression. Sure, the financial markets are in turmoil, but look at the economy of the 70s. Gas lines, 10% inflation, 10% unemployment, 14-18% mortgage loans.

Can anyone with a straight face say that things are worse now????

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Good point Dave.

And how much money did we throw at that problem? Time to let this one run it’s course.

I thought I just heard this bailout was shot down. True? I just found this article: Bailout shot down

It was shot down and now it’s the blame game.

I’m not sure if I’m happy or not as a financial decision of this magnitude is beyond my expertise but it sure bothered me that the decision has to be made NOW! Every personal decision I’ve ever made on impulse came back to bite me in the so I tend to be very analytical now with major decisions (maybe I’m getting older and wiser).

Every other day another massive institution is failing. This would not prevent that, but it would certainly help. These companies need to de-lever themselves quickly. Wachovia was the 5th largest bank in the US, it is now gone. Lehman, Merrill, Goldman, Morgan Stanley, Bear Stearns are either gone or dramatically changed. The crisis has spread to European banks and they are starting to go through the same process.

Something has to be done soon, either approve the purchase or tell institutions that they are on their own. The limbo (or more delays) is the worst possible outcome.

whoa… look at the dow drop!… it was at -650.. I hit refresh and it had dropped almost another 100 points… talk about rats jumping off a sinking ship… wouldnt it be wiser to just ride it out? they are becoming part of the problem with that attitude….
come on.. we are Americans… lets draw the line in the sand.. and hold on for dear life… not stampeded like a herd of frightened cattle…

All I have to say is here are the names of 3 Freddie and Fannie people who should be starting long prison sentences soon if there is any justice: Franklin Rains, Jim Johnson, and Jamie Garelik. Unbelievable amount of fraud. Search engine these folks and you’ll find disservice to our country going back many years. And their buddies read like a “Who’s Who” of Washington politics.

dd

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All I have to say is here are the names of 3 Freddie and Fannie people who should be starting long prison sentences soon if there is any justice: Franklin Rains, Jim Johnson, and Jamie Garelik. Unbelievable amount of fraud. Search engine these folks and you’ll find disservice to our country going back many years. And their buddies read like a “Who’s Who” of Washington politics.

dd

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Come on, Joel. You know only poor people commit crimes!

The lack of oversight by our government is troubling.

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All I have to say is here are the names of 3 Freddie and Fannie people who should be starting long prison sentences soon if there is any justice: Franklin Rains, Jim Johnson, and Jamie Garelik. Unbelievable amount of fraud. Search engine these folks and you’ll find disservice to our country going back many years. And their buddies read like a “Who’s Who” of Washington politics.

dd

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Seems like a couple senators should also be checked out. This Barney Frank is a piece of work. Freddie and Fannie are solid

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All I have to say is here are the names of 3 Freddie and Fannie people who should be starting long prison sentences soon if there is any justice: Franklin Rains, Jim Johnson, and Jamie Garelik. Unbelievable amount of fraud. Search engine these folks and you’ll find disservice to our country going back many years. And their buddies read like a “Who’s Who” of Washington politics.

dd

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Seems like a couple senators should also be checked out. This Barney Frank is a piece of work. Freddie and Fannie are solid

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Do not forget Senator Chris Dodd,Chairman of the Senate Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs Committee. No investiation would be complete without an up close and personal look at him, also, the Acorn operation and its supporting cast of characters including that lawyer, I forget his name , the one that handled their voter registration fraud cases and was instrumental in training their members!

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Come on, Joel. You know only poor people commit crimes!

The lack of oversight by our government is troubling.

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C’Mon Wade you know only poor people go to jail.

And it is government sticking it’s nose into the mortgage business to give people home loans they can’t repay that is the problem. Government demanding banks make bad loans and then telling them “Its OK we’ll back those loans! Loan away fellers” is crazy.

I only mentioned Rains, Johnson, and Garelik to not point at a particular political party. But one party has its fingerprints all over this thing. And a complete investigation would show that. So the odds of that investigation happening are slim to none.

dd

And throw in ACORN for giggles. They lobbied and lobbied for no income disclosure loans on the grounds that it descriminated against the poor.

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Come on, Joel. You know only poor people commit crimes!

The lack of oversight by our government is troubling.

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C’Mon Wade you know only poor people go to jail.

And it is government sticking it’s nose into the mortgage business to give people home loans they can’t repay that is the problem. Government demanding banks make bad loans and then telling them “Its OK we’ll back those loans! Loan away fellers” is crazy.

I only mentioned Rains, Johnson, and Garelik to not point at a particular political party. But one party has its fingerprints all over this thing. And a complete investigation would show that. So the odds of that investigation happening are slim to none.

dd

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Maybe I should say, appropriate oversight. It’s very troubling.

That, Wade, is the first time I laughed about this whole mess. Priceless!

Joel

That could be the mother of the double entendre!

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That, Wade, is the first time I laughed about this whole mess. Priceless!

Joel

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the Acorn operation and its supporting cast of characters including that lawyer, I forget his name , the one that handled their voter registration fraud cases and was instrumental in training their members!

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Yes, there is a nice video out there about how ACORN was to get 20% of the bailout. How is that possible? They are not an institute that needs bailing out. It also discussed that lawyer you are referring to. Good information!

I found this article interesting….
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/SuperModels/its-a-great-time-to-be-afraid.aspx

the title grabbed me.. it smacked of fear mongering so I checked it out to see what the bear people were shouting today…. but it didnt seem to be a typical bear article, it seemed more reasoned..
anyway… there was a section on page two about energy and what caught my eye was about a giant refinery being made in India that would supply up to 20% of the worlds gasoline.. and I couldnt help but think that a giant gas refinery sitting close the terrorist country supplying THAT much gasoline… does anyone else see a potential problem with this? that was what scared me… terrorists+ giant gasoline refinery = *KABOOM* dontcha think? and then goodbye to 20% of the worlds gasoline supply for a VERY long time… reducing supply and catastrophically increasing demand… even IF we get NO gasoline from this we would suffer for it… *sheese*..
oh well… time to see how my latest batch of wine is brewing… lol
beautiful day huh?
took this shot yesterday…. I kinda liked it…
spose Im better off shooting pix and drinking wine… not always in that order… though gotta be careful bout too much wine and shooting pix!.. that camera is tough.. but dropping it off a cliff or into a river would not be good….

River: I must say looking at your pictures gives me great pleasure. Much more then looking at my declining statements.

As always, excellent work!

You-da-ho? No, I-da-ho.

Returned this weekend from my week-long Idaho archery elk hunt. This was my second time out there – 3 Minnesotans joining an Idahoan (is that the term?) in efforts to stick the elusive Whapati. The guy from Idaho grew up elk hunting (did some guiding in college even) and really, really knows how to talk to those things.

The weather was warm, temps were in the upper 60s to low 70s each day and it had been 7 weeks since they’d received any rain. Yeah, it was crispy in the mountains. And smokey from the wildfires further west. None of this seemed to keep the bulls from bugling in the mornings and late afternoons however. My highest expectation for the trip was to have one close encounter. One addrenalin dump. One time when I thought that it was going to actually come together with a herd bull.

I had this happen 3 times a day for 3 days in a row. It was amazing. The bulls were acting like school yard bullies – all talk and very little action. They’d close the distance, but stall out 50-75 yards away (and that’s with the guy doing the calling situated 50-75 yards behind the shooter). We tried everything…pushing them, waiting them out, calling over their bugles, everything. Even running (litterally running while bugling) after them when they’d start shying away in efforts to get them to turn and face their foe. Being passive and just cow calling or bugling resulted in NOTHING coming in. Being aggressive seemed our best approach.

And it did pay off. A pair of my buddies (we hunted in pairs all week) were successful in finally ticking off the herd bull to the degree that he had finally heard enough. He closed the distance to the shooter, coming across above him on the mountain-side at a range of 26 yards.

My buddy, in the failing light and with his chest pounding, mis-judged the distance at 40 – settled the pin (which he could barely see as darkness was really closing in) and released. The bull dropped instantly. Folded like a pair of dueces.

He put two more arrows into it’s chest as it did the floppy crappie, but it was dead. The 6×6 will score darn close to 300 – and that’s about as big as they get in Idaho.

Figuring he’d shot high (misjudged the distance), it seemed obvious that he’d spined him with the first shot. When we quartered it out and broke it down, we were unable to find where the first arrow hit however. No damage found while removing the backstraps…hmph. Musta hit him a bit more up the neck.

It wasn’t until the next morning when the shooter was cleaning up the skull plate that he found carbon slivers from his arrow. He had shot it square in the head. A brain shot.

Try as we might to give him crap for obviously looking at the headgear while he should have been focusing on picking a hair on its ribcage, we couldn’t argue with the results. Missing the lungs and hitting the brain at 26 yards is a HUGE miss. That’s being off by like 3 feet. And this guy can shoot. Shoots league all winter, shoots all summer. He’s taken a number of deer. He’s competent. Nerves get to a guy, and having a 750 pound beast screaming at you as he comes down the mountain tends to rattle the nerves.

So we ended up 1 for 4. The Idaho guy did put an arrow into an even bigger 7×7 on our second day out, but his shot was high. We tracked it until 2:30 that night until we lost the blood. He picked up the trail in the morning and followed the bull a mile and a quarter down the mountain (1200 feet of elevation) to water, only to then follow the very sparse blood trail all the way back to the top. We’re confident that that bull is still walking.

An amazing trip. We were in bulls everyday. Saw at least one moose everyday. Physically exhausting, there is no better hunting experience in my humble opinion than getting into the mountains.

The photos are pretty self explanatory…my buddy with his bull, a shot of the scenery, and a shot of our hardcore hunting rig as we returned to MN. Oh yeah, and a photo of my GPS – check out the trip odometer. If you’re heading out west, start running now.

Congrats on a nice bull!! Sounds like one heck of an adventure. Was this a draw unit or over the counter? Did you guys stay in the mountains/pack in?