I mentioned this in another post…I wonder if you were to put those slot fish netted out this year and last back in the picture…would they have put a dent in the rising perch population of the last two years? 
I am sure we will never know. But you can bet that the Natives will now “Up” their quota for 2009. 
Interesting comment….
Quote:
Zebra mussels
Four, eight, 130, 24,000. That’s what four years of zebra mussel surveys have turned up on Mille Lacs.
The DNR has sampled 20 to 22 600-foot transects since 2005, when zebra mussels were first found on Mille Lacs.
They found four the first year, eight the second, and 130 last year. This year Jones, Eric Jensen and other divers found 24,000 mussels on every transect, in every kind of habitat, from deep gravel reefs to shallow sand.
And it will get worse. Much worse. Density now is about one-half mussel per square foot. When zebras really take hold, they can number in the thousands per square foot.
The effect on the ecosystem is not entirely known, but they will likely increase water clarity and make daylight fishing more difficult. So far, no fishery that Jones knows of has collapsed due to zebra mussels.
-J.
I personally thought the harvest number would have been a little higher…from about a week after opener to about mid-July the fishing was pretty consistent on the SE side of the lake and most of the fish we were catching were keepers (more so than in the past few years) and from alot of posts it sounded like more keepers were being caught…The Zebra mussels seem to be picking up steam…just one more thing to be concerned about when it come to the overall health of the walleye population in ML…time will tell…
Was talking to a creel census guy this week and he also indicated the mussels had gone nuts. We both agreed that at the present rate Walleye fishing will mostly be at night within 5 years due to water clarity. Not a bad thing, just a different way of fishing.
On a related note he said the resorts were down 40% this summer! Night fishing will not help that situation at all.
Unless we have an outstanding winter ice season even more resorts may tumble.
End gill netting on Mille Lacs. Keep the slot fish IN the lake.
People of all races can catch them. Resorters will have their customers.
I ask this in all seriousness..What happens when the current large population of big fish is gone? What fish in the system are in large enough numbers to step in and fill that void?
Quote:
End gill netting on Mille Lacs. Keep the slot fish IN the lake.
People of all races can catch them. Resorters will have their customers.
I ask this in all seriousness..What happens when the current large population of big fish is gone? What fish in the system are in large enough numbers to step in and fill that void?
Gill netting will never end. None of us like it, but there is no longer anything that can be done. I’ll let this lay, it’s always the same arguement with zero solutions.
Maybe.
But I stand by my statement. And my question.
“(Insert issue here) will never end. None of us like it, but there is no longer anything that can be done. I’ll let this lay, it’s always the same arguement with zero solutions.”
Where would we all be now if that message was delivered at the meeting hall in Philadelphia 230 years ago?
Nothing personal Brian, I’m just trying to illustrate that a cause can be worth fightin’ for even when success appears to be improbable.
Gill netting under the 1830 treaty exists “Under the pleasure of the President” Any sitting US president can end gill netting with the swipe of a pen.
-J.
I still say an event large enough to get National attention could make this happen. I like the idea of and IDO regular…A 500 truck/boat traffic jam in front of the casino prior to the netting season…. 
There is a small chance the ML band, and the state might pay the Wisconsin bands to not come over and net ML any more. ML casino revenues are reportedly down about 30% from years past.
Imagine what it would be like if that were to happen and the ML casino were to start throwing some sponsorship money into the bigger, or most of the tourneys on this lake. Chances are their casino would be full of both locals and fishermen! 
Thanks Jack…we can only hope!
Quote:
There is a small chance the ML band, and the state might pay the Wisconsin bands to not come over and net ML any more. ML casino revenues are reportedly down about 30% from years past.
Imagine what it would be like if that were to happen and the ML casino were to start throwing some sponsorship money into the bigger, or most of the tourneys on this lake. Chances are their casino would be full of both locals and fishermen!
Wow, that is something I had not heard or even thought of. That would be great. I would go back to the casino if that were the case. We can hope, right?
Keep us posted Jack. I’d support something along those lines. Not a perfect solution, but better than what we have now.
They could build a lake, stock it, and net it to their heart’s content each year. Heck, build it right on the Res, or just off. 
Getting something cooperative going with the bands would be ideal; but if their goal is still to get ownership of as much of the land around the lake as possible, they have no reason to cooperate. As long as the casino revenues keep rolling in I think they will keep doing what they have been doing.
dd
They lost interest in owning all the land when they found out they couldn’t take the land off the county tax roles. To do that they would have had to accept the 1855 treaty instead of the 1837 treaty which gives them their hunting and gathering rights.
Thanks Jack! I knew at one time that was what they were after. Now I guess I don’t know what their end game is; but whatever it is it’s the casinos that drive it. I would think the type of cooperative effort mentioned earlier might benefit them more in the long run. I personally have not spent a dime in their casinos in at least 15 years; but if they would back off on the gill netting there would probably be a lot of folks (myself included) that would gladly spend money at the casinos.
dd
The bite has been off because of a HUGE perch bloom. Nothing more.
Not only has it been walleye fishing that’s been off, every species. Our crew is multi species. We look at years past, the fishing had been nothing short of spectacular for all species. It’s not only the walleye fishing that’s subpar…it’s been ALL species this year…why? The nets aren’t a big effect on the other species…Perch bloom. We caught fish this year but…the SM and eye fishing has been slow all year, as has pike and lunge.
Some can continue to beat the dead horse issue, it’s not the reason fishing has been terrible this year…as if we went from gangbusters fishing last year to SLOW this year because of the netting?? Sorry, they didn’t take all the fish, smallie, lunge and pike included.
PERCH BLOOM.
BIRDDOG
Do you remember what happened to the crappie population on Red when the walleye were taken out of the biomass of the lake? 
And to what do you attribute the large perch hatch to over the last two to three years? The years that the Indians have taken their largest amount of slot fish from the lake? Coincidence? Maybe.
When you take out a good sized chunk of a certain class of fish over the last three years…I would have to think it would make an impact. We all scoffed at the DNR’s test nettings last year. I don’t hear a lot of chuckling now.
I will gladly eat my words if I am proven to be wrong, and am ready to do so at any time. I have had temendous walleye years when we have had huge perch populations. With the high population of fish over 24″, I expect this year to be good as well. I don’t expect to hear many here bragging about all the slots that they are catching. 
Quote:
Do you remember what happened to the crappie population on Red when the walleye were taken out of the biomass of the lake?
Are you really asking that question…Of course when you wipe out a species others will flourish due to the lack of competition for forage. I didn’t hear anyone complaining about the crappie bite. Who wiped out the crappies? Can’t blame the tan man for that.
Quote:
And to what do you attribute the large perch hatch to over the last two to three years? The years that the Indians have taken their largest amount of slot fish from the lake? Coincidence?
It’s a perch bloom, they had a good spawn. Coincidence…lake cycle. The same lake cycle they all go through when bait fish numbers are high…fishing gets slow. Remember the “death bite”…fishing was sick, you could catch them on a plain hook. Why? No bait fish. Now we have a TON of bait fish and the fishing is slow.
I won’t argue the netting doesn’t make an impact…I’m just not prepared to jump on the bandwagon when there are other factors. Now we’ll have a bad eye hatch this year, it’ll be blamed on the netting, but how soon some forget the terribly cold spawning year we had.
This is just like the leech/lack of walleyes. RIGHT…kill the cormorants now all the sudden the bite is hot…I thought the cormorants killed all the walleye and there were none left…not the case. Leech had a few years of a huge bait bloom, bite got slow. Now those bait fish have been foraged on and or grew up becoming less attractive to the walleye. The bite is smoking again. Cycle.
I don’t like the netting either, but I’ll stick to what I know for sure. I do know the lake is seeing a bait fish bloom that I’ve never seen before. Take the time to snorkel or dive the lake(I have)…the number of bait fish is sick. Using the camera or electronics, the fish are there…right below that big blotch on the screen. Are all those bait fish there because the walleyes are gone? Or is it just a big enough bloom that they(all species)are all full and don’t need to chase or eat anything that’s not natural?
You believe the major factor is the tan man…I believe it’s the bloom.
Time will tell.
Quote:
Quote:
Do you remember what happened to the crappie population on Red when the walleye were taken out of the biomass of the lake?
Are you really asking that question…Of course when you wipe out a species others will flourish due to the lack of competition for forage. I didn’t hear anyone complaining about the crappie bite. Who wiped out the crappies? Can’t blame the tan man for that.
With an attitude like that, it is useless to debate this issue. My point was merely to bring up an observation of what I have seen in over 35 years of fishing Mille Lacs. And more specifically, what I have seen in the last 5 years, and mainly in the last 3. I don’t need to be a diver to know that the fishing on the east side rocks for slot fish (where a major portion of the netting takes place…) is dramatically down. The crappie explosion on Red was a direct result of the absence of walleye in the predatory chain. Yes, everyone benefitted by the large crappies for a while. But while that was happening, some of us here on IDO were interviewing wildlife biologists on the lake and getting their take on what happens when there are holes in the predatory chain. We knew that there had to be a Ying to that Yang, and we wanted to educate ourselves. Taking a large portion of slots out of that chain is not good. These fish are eating machines! They will eat fish of the size of the perch in your “Bloom” when they are present in the numbers that it takes to keep that population in check. What will happen when all these perch grow up? Who will they be competing with for food? What will happen to the walleye fry when the they are hatched, and the overpowering perch “Bloom” becomes the major predatory biomass per pound in the lake?
Who will be complaining then?
Time will tell. Like I said, I am completely willing to eat my words.
Are you?
What attitude is that? You asked the question and got the obvious answer….yes, did you really have to ask? Instead of stating what we all know happened on Red, you ask if I know?? I’d say that maybe that’s where the attitude starts. If your going to ask questions like that, expect a little in return.
Someone’s opinion differs from yours and you don’t want to debate the subject any longer, that’s fine…
I think you need to reread my first response…I agree that the netting makes an impact…I don’t agree with the netting. I agree with you to a point, but I also believe there are other factors at play. Somehow that puts me on the other side of the fence. Our opinions differ…you take your ball and want to go home…
Your 100% the slow fishing is caused by the indians. I’m not 100%, yes, the netting is playing a factor…but so are other things. I’ll at least take a step back and acknowledge that lakes go through cycles and maybe that’s what we’re seeing here…then again, maybe it’s the netting. I just lean towards it being a cycle.
Will I eat my words? If having an open mind and believing this isn’t a one sided issue, and that there are other factors at play, sure I’ll eat them.
BIRDDOG
I would like to also make the point that Sportfishermen and women are also responsible for taking fish out of the system as well. I am not implying that this is all the result of “The Tan Man”. I am not naive to think we didn’t and don’t play a major role in this as well. But the limit for Mille Lacs anglers and the hooking mortality is figured into our take. How about theirs? Show me the netting mortality data.
I LOVE hearing different opinions when they are expressed as opinions. Mine are clearly stated as such if you look back at them.
Your tone over and over again here seems confrontational. You go after people and make remarks that come off harsh for whatever reason. I don’t know why. “Take my ball and go home?” I don’t think so.
I just know that when you enter into many of the conversations here on IDO, opinions other than your own are met with jabs and harsh criticism. I don’t feel the need to do that here. And I wont get drawn into that.
I don’t expect anyone to take what I say as gospel. All I have to offer is 35 years of experience on this lake. I am sure you do as well, and your take may be different. I have absolutely no problem with any of that. My issue is the way you come across with it, as it appears you do with me.
You have your opinion, and I have mine. 
You must have taken this personal, none of it was intended to be. Nice to see the pot calling the kettle black though! 
BIRDDOG
I think you both have good arguements, and as you both have stated they are opinions, which everybody has. 
Might I suggest a solution……………?
How about you 2 team up for the Saugerama!! 
You guys could be “Team debate” , Birddog & Chris Tuckner 
OK, it was just a thought. 
Quote:
Might I suggest a solution……………?
How about you 2 team up for the Saugerama!!
You guys could be “Team debate” , Birddog & Chris Tuckner
OK, it was just a thought.
I have to dispute your argument that all species are down…from reading many post and targeting them personally…the smallmouth bass bite has been fantastic…dispite the large perch bloom…
I personally think overall the walleye population is down a bit from what it is historically…but it is not in dire straits, YET!…and for better or worse I believe there are an abundance of larger walleyes in the lake (24′ or greater) and less fish in the 14-20 inch range from the norm…
I think there are a few factors contributing to the smaller numbers of average sized fish:
1) tribal netting (targeting of average size walleyes)
2) a larger muskie population eating smaller walleyes
3) a larger average size pike population (due to a slot limit on pike) eating smaller walleyes
4) A larger small mouth population (due to a 21’and under protected slot) I believe the small mouth bass compete directly with walleyes for food and habitat
5) the slot limits themselves…more fisherpeople are targeting the same size fish prior to slot limits and releasing larger fish…creating an imbalance in the popultion…
these are in no perticular order or ranking…
too sum things up, nobody knows for sure what swims below the water on ML…but you can count on the DNR’s policy makers to play it ultra conservative and hold the fishermen accountable and further tighten slot limits and quotas for sportfishermen while the GLIWC deems it ok to raise their qouta…
just to add…I personally think it is ridiculous to have a slot limit on northern pike on ML…it is a proven fact that pike are a furious predator fish and love to eat smaller walleyes…the DNR knows that, and in lakes with abundant pike populations, walleye stocking is usually useless because the walleye fry and fingerlings get predated almost immediately…
Do the muskies eat alot of walleyes in ML, who knows for sure…I’m sure they eat some…but is the muskie population that big to make a difference, who knows for sure…
does a larger small mouth popultion affect the ML walleye population…I think it has…because they share almost the same habitat and food…
I read an article in local fishing mag about Green Lake near Spicer about how the walleye popualtion has steeply declined due to the larger smallmouth populaton that has greatly increased due to a slot limit for smallmouths very similar to Mille Lacs…
Mille lacs and green lake are completely different lakes…but in ML I do believe there is a larger smallmouth population and it has effected the walleye population…but to what extent? besides I like catching smallmouths, especially when the walleye bite gets tough..
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
