For the techs here, wouldnt you just love to???

  • Iowaboy1
    Posts: 3613
    #2197225

    Let me preface this by saying, I would really love to let you know what I think about and would like to do to some engineers and those who approve their work, but alas, some tofu farting panty waist would go screaming to the mods or others whining he’s so cruel!!! he should be black listed!!
    Well, you have that right but I also have a right to an opinion and know this in advance, I would never carry out what I would like to do,, its stress relief in the dark corners of a mind that would love to get even with absolute stupidity of the highest form.

    Todays, well, the last five days problem, a 2012 ford frigging f150 3.5 ecoboom.
    Customer complaint, runs great cold, pulling a load no problem until it gets warm and coasting to a stop, it runs like crap and dies, restarts take forever and we have codes P0087 and P00C6,
    Low fuel pressure at rail, and low fuel pressure on start up.

    88 thousand miles on the odometer, no known history before this problem except that the check engine light is on and we also have codes for failed evap solenoid, failed L terminal on the alternator, and the two codes already mentioned.
    Sure enough, corroded in two wire a half inch from the alternator regulator connecter, and, rock chewed in two evap solenoid wire that is hanging below the frame rail.
    Repaired both of those and went after the fuel pressure issue, according to the scanner the high pressure fuel pump was failing and could not adjust fast enough for the load put on it.
    Replaced the high pressure pump and it runs a bunch better, except,,, twenty miles down the road, coming to a stop, it runs rough and dies out.
    Restart, took a long time but it started and ran all of the way back to my shop.

    I went after the fuel pump control module, sure enough, not enough voltage to the pump, replace it and off we go with plenty of voltage!! and, ten miles later it quits again, same codes, dammit!!!
    Even though I can hear the pump run I am not getting the pressure I need but something in my gut tells me its not the in tank pump, its something else.
    I opened the hood and the fuse box mounted squarely on top of the radiator, WTH!!! what retard thought it was a good idea to mount something that makes enough heat on its own on top of something even hotter????
    I used my infrared thermometer and measure the heat coming off of the relays, fuel pump relay is reading 156 degrees!!!!
    I thought, okay, its failing, swap it with another one and five minutes later, same temps and fuel pump is laying down again!!!

    Funny thing though, while I had the hood open for longer than ten minutes the pressure would revive and the truck would run normally, wth!!
    Okay, first clue, high relay temp, pump fails, temp drops, pump runs fine, as long as the hood is open it will continue to run.
    After many hours on the net and talking to one of the best ford techs in Iowa and no resolution in sight I took off on a venture.
    I chased the wire from the fuse box to the pump twenty two feet of wire later and it checked out perfectly, every resistance test and voltage test I threw it at it was perfect, HHHHMMMMMMM???
    Or so I thought, I took the fuse box apart and discovered another damn bean counter thought it was a great idea to power the fuse to the pump from one relay and back to another relay, that wire is 22 gage on one side of the fuse and 12 gage on the other,WTH!!!!! and that wire runs back to another relay and to the pump from there, GGRRR!!

    I read up on it and there is a tsb for the 5.0 and 6.2 motors about that fuse burning the cavity and not blowing the fuse but not the 3.5 ecoboom I am working on.
    They relocate that fuse to an open cavity for a fuse number 70, a much heavier wire and power buss bar, I installed it just to cover my bases, no love yet.
    I offered to buy the truck so that I could have it crushed and the owner refused and said, Doc, I trust ya and I know ya can figure it out, well, okay, but I am losing my butt and I should be working on scheduled stuff that folks are waiting on, sigh.

    I spent hours on the net again last night, nadda, so this morning I started doing voltage drop tests on the ground side.
    I had one ground that just wasnt up to snuff and I started tracing it through all of the known ground locations, the closer I got to the pump the worse it got, and, I am getting weird feed back on other wires.
    Now get this, in the name of saving money ford really takes some dumbazz shortcuts on wiring, less strands per gage, and cheap plastic coating on their wires, that coating is very porous, because they use soy and corn products to make the plastic,ugh!!
    Yet they turn around and run wires twice as far to do a job that could be done with half of the amount of wire.

    Above the spare tire there is a cross brace where the pump control module is located, dumbazz idea number 17698 as gravel dust, road salt, brine, you name it collects there and not two inches away is the fuel pump ground wire mounted with a single bolt, duh, okay, but why isnt the ground five feet closer to the pump and out of harms way?? dumbazz idea 17699.
    Check this out, total rust blocking any form of ground from happening.
    I thoroughly cleaned the mounting point, the connector, and the bolt, and when done, painted over it.
    Pump is happy now!! and so is customer, and me?? well, onto another clusterfrig tomorrow, welcome to my world guys.

    So here is the tally, due to very high resistance on the ground side, the power side was getting terribly hot, in part, thanks to a much too light wire powering the pump fuse, the heat would cause the relay to shut down and the power was cut to the pump.
    Once cooled down, it would run for a while and start over, in the end, the ground was the biggest factor but contributed to many others, and those can cause a guy to pull his hair out going down rabbit holes created by,,,,,,, I will keep my mouth shut.

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    MNdrifter
    Posts: 1663
    #2197253

    Don’t get me started on engineers. I Spent 4 hours last Wednesday night (11pm-3am) relaying information to an “on call engineer” who had no idea of the subject matter. After the third time telling him his written procedures wouldn’t work and was against company policy, he finally said “it sounds like you know what you are doing”. I asked him to send me an email confirming what I was about to do to cover my a$$ with management (the only thing worse than engineers).

    Bearcat89
    North branch, mn
    Posts: 17883
    #2197255

    Man I wish I had a 1/4 of your knowledge Sheldon.

    Iowaboy1
    Posts: 3613
    #2197265

    Thanks Bearcat,but I have to be honest and tell you this, many days there is a lot of praying!!!!
    Praying for the wisdom to figure things out, praying that I don’t take a crowbar to the offending problem and beating the living snot out of it,and,I pray for sanity so I can move onto the next new problem.
    If it was easy every day,everyone would be doing it.

    Being half crazy from the get go helps a lot too!!!

    James Holst
    Keymaster
    SE Minnesota
    Posts: 18924
    #2197268

    I offered to buy the truck so that I could have it crushed

    In no way am I making fun of what you’re going through….I can feel your frustration…but this made me bust out laughing!

    Hard Water Fan
    Shieldsville
    Posts: 750
    #2197273

    I call that “engineer in a cube”. Meaning someone sitting at a desk has a ” great idea”. Gets buy in from other engineers in their cubes. But nobody ever tests the idea out in real world situations.

    MX1825
    Posts: 3029
    #2197282

    Engineers and bad grounds—2 of the BIGGEST pains in the a?? I mean pants.
    Some liquid refreshments might help Sheldon.

    LabDaddy1
    Posts: 1738
    #2197321

    dumbazz idea number 17698

    Ok that one got me!

    You could have summed this whole thing up in one word though: “Ford.”

    All joking aside, I’m surprised this story didn’t end with discovering rodent damage. Just got my 4runner back from the shop after squirrels made a living room and kitchen underneath the intake manifold… This is after both my and my dads boats BOTH had squirrel/mice activity and damage this winter. Whole other topic I guess…

    Bearcat89
    North branch, mn
    Posts: 17883
    #2197326

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>iowaboy1 wrote:</div>
    dumbazz idea number 17698

    Ok that one got me!

    You could have summed this whole thing up in one word though: “Ford.”

    All joking aside, I’m surprised this story didn’t end with discovering rodent damage. Just got my 4runner back from the shop after squirrels made a living room and kitchen underneath the intake manifold… This is after both my and my dads boats BOTH had squirrel/mice activity and damage this winter. Whole other topic I guess…

    You need a couple cats man

    hillhiker
    SE MN
    Posts: 905
    #2197335

    Thanks Bearcat,but I have to be honest and tell you this, many days there is a lot of praying!!!!
    Praying for the wisdom to figure things out, praying that I don’t take a crowbar to the offending problem and beating the living snot out of it,and,I pray for sanity so I can move onto the next new problem.
    If it was easy every day,everyone would be doing it.

    Being half crazy from the get go helps a lot too!!!

    I feel your pain Iowaboy. Being a tech that works out in the field directly for an engineering department I definitely question my sanity some days!

    stevenoak
    Posts: 1713
    #2197349

    Would you be so kind, as to allow me to use ” Tofu farting panty waist” going forward!!! I worked on Detroit’s bright ideas for right at 50 years. Still enjoy working with my hands. Just try to not fool with things “Engineered”

    mark-bruzek
    Two Harbors, MN
    Posts: 3839
    #2197351

    FYI, That aluminum control module box you found above the spare tire ALSO has a high rate of failure due to corroding through and water intrusion.

    John Rasmussen
    Blaine
    Posts: 5355
    #2197353

    management (the only thing worse than engineers).

    Hey now, somebody’s got to be in charge and were not all bad. mrgreen

    Sheldon, again sorry I missed that text, not sure we could have been any help anyway with that crap show. I have great guys working under me, but would love to have a guy with your tenacity to get to the root of the problem. Even though we have not worked together, I can tell your one of the really great technicians out there. Keep up the great work my friend. bow

    stevenoak
    Posts: 1713
    #2197358

    FYI, That aluminum control module box you found above the spare tire ALSO has a high rate of failure due to corroding through and water intrusion.

    Go figure, I would think that would be the perfect spot for electrical components. Not only will it go bad. After 3 years you have to cut the cable to get the spare off due to corrosion.

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11004
    #2197360

    Todays, well, the last five days problem, a 2012 ford

    I found your problem, lady. Right there in plain sight. Ford.

    Found On Road Dead
    Fix Or Repair Daily
    Filthy Old Road Debris

    I got a million of them. C’mon Ford guys, somebody had to do it.

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 21849
    #2197364

    These type issues will only get worse… whoever decided to go green on wire harnass’ with soy based casing/insulation… instead of petroleum based… the mice and rats LOVE the taste of the wire insulation now. doah

    stevenoak
    Posts: 1713
    #2197372

    These type issues will only get worse… whoever decided to go green on wire harnass’ with soy based casing/insulation… instead of petroleum based… the mice and rats LOVE the taste of the wire insulation now. doah

    And squirrels. Buddy traded a new Ford for a Chevy. Soley due to living in the country without a garage. It was a constant occurrence. Then there is replacing 14-gauge wire with wiring in the 20’s. Thats big reason your light socket looks burnt when you change the burnt bulb. Does the same to other components. Due to not dissipating the heat.

    LabDaddy1
    Posts: 1738
    #2197380

    These type issues will only get worse… whoever decided to go green on wire harnass’ with soy based casing/insulation… instead of petroleum based… the mice and rats LOVE the taste of the wire insulation now. doah

    G, I have read about that one high and low. A lot say the proof as in the pudding, and a bunch also say it’s a myth. Of course the guys at Toyota immediately said MYTH… So what’s the inside dirt?? Have you seen an increase in rodent damage since they started this sky-based crap?

    Iowaboy1
    Posts: 3613
    #2197386

    FYI, That aluminum control module box you found above the spare tire ALSO has a high rate of failure due to corroding through and water intrusion.

    Mark, ford quit using that design of module a couple of years before this 2012 model, the new ones are fully encased in plastic and about half the size.

    Stevenoak, help yourself !!!!

    big_g
    Isle, MN
    Posts: 21849
    #2197391

    As far as seeing it ? Yes, seeing it here in MN and really seen it on Maui. When Covid was happening and no tourists were renting cars, realize at least half the rental cars are always out, they had no room at the rental offices, so they parked them in a field by the Airport… almost 100% of the new ones had wiring chewed. It was pretty sad actually, warranty does not cover chewed wires. doah

    John Rasmussen
    Blaine
    Posts: 5355
    #2197392

    I heard down in Arizona the Jack Rabbits were eating spark plug wires. We have had a few customers that had multiple rodent issues some requiring removal of the intake manifold to repair, we ordered some cayenne pepper infused tape and wrapped the wiring in that.

    Dutchboy
    Central Mn.
    Posts: 16021
    #2197393

    You all going to be running big batteries pretty soon so all the issues will be gone.

    grubson
    Harris, Somewhere in VNP
    Posts: 1288
    #2197432

    You all going to be running big batteries pretty soon so all the issues will be gone.

    rotflol

    I feel your pain Iowaboy, I tell a very similar story about a 2012 E250 van that handed me my backside last summer with a very similar issue. I learned the valuable lesson on why test lights and ohm readings can get a guy in trouble. The circuit checked out fine until I tried applying a load to it.
    I eventually found the corroded ground wire but found gray hairs on my head and beard first.
    I now always load test circuits before assuming they’re good. Vehicles keep getting made cheaper and cheaper but the prices keep going up…

    MX1825
    Posts: 3029
    #2197494

    I didn’t have issues with mice but, squirrels and rabbits LOVE wire insulation. They always seem to chew it all the way down to a harness connector. doah

    Greg Krull
    South Metro / Pool 4
    Posts: 258
    #2197504

    Oh man, I’m an engineer, and Fabrication Manager. And I drive a …. blush

    bigcrappie
    Blaine
    Posts: 3957
    #2197514

    Watch South Main Auto on YouTube, He fixes these kind of problems no one else can figure out and most are bad connectors and grounds. If you think about 12v current is some of the simplest stuff but so many people have problems with it.

    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 11004
    #2197522

    Watch South Main Auto on YouTube,

    Eric is a freaking Zen Master when it comes to automotive wiring an electrical troubleshooting. Learned a lot from his channel.

    Iowaboy1
    Posts: 3613
    #2197569

    Watch South Main Auto on YouTube, He fixes these kind of problems no one else can figure out and most are bad connectors and grounds. If you think about 12v current is some of the simplest stuff but so many people have problems with it.

    Bigcrappie, when I get a chance I will check it out, I dont have problems with circuits of any voltage, please understand, when I said it took a few days to figure this out, I was working on the offending ford every spare second I had while juggling the responsibility of many other jobs at hand, I honestly didnt have the time to just sit down with this one job and figure it out from one end to the other which if I did, would have taken a lot less time, I apologize if it came across that way.

    In my shop, and I am asking you to understand this, I work on so many different things on any given day, ( sure, you could say, specialize in one thing but thats impossible in a small town where if you did that you would be broke in a month ) anyway, I might have two lower units torn down, one needing an impeller the other a seal kit.
    Three carbs on the bench waiting to be reassembled, a brake job on one hoist, a set of tires on the other hoist and Lord knows what else waiting on its turn in the lot.
    I thrive on chaos, dont ask me how I keep track of so many things, I just do and somehow get it all done even when the booger eating moron who I might see once or twice a year has had a slow leak in a tire for a month all of a sudden decides to take a long trip and needs it fixed right effing now, the last part I have pretty much chased off as I am busy enough that I make sure they understand scheduled work takes priority and lack of planning on their part does not in no way no how constitute an emergency on my part.
    If you dont believe that, I invite you to come work with me for a day, or, you could ask several members here who have been to my shop take one look and say, Doc, you are effing nuts.

    Chaos, why do I thrive on it??? ADHD for one, that and it helps keep my mind off of the voices in my head who are constantly arguing with each other and I dont worry near as much about my imaginary friend who is always running with scissors.

    Thank God for my wife balancing the day, somehow we manage to complete the day even with countless tech calls, phone orders, scheduling, customers who want to know what was found with their problem and how we resolved it and I find time to help many of you here out.
    I am humbled by all of it, I would never in a million years dreamed this old farm boy would be reaching over 1500 customers across four states now in four years time.

    Dutchboy
    Central Mn.
    Posts: 16021
    #2197573

    Take it from somebody who knows….when the chaos ends it doesn’t mean peace & tranquility start.

    I guess my other question is…”once you master the chaos is it still chaos? ” lol

    Iowaboy1
    Posts: 3613
    #2231570

    Chaos, to me is like Ozzy singing all of his songs at once, but once you sort out the harmony and the chords,,,,,thank goodness there is only one of me, ??
    I am the only one who understands what I mean, carry on.

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