QDM, Can it work in MN?

A lot of Iowa’s success in growing big bucks is do to the fact that they don’t hunt November through the pre-rut and rut with firearms. So their bucks have a much better chance of survival each year. I think QDM or selective harvest is more willingly practiced in Iowa then in MN, because of the fact that there are more mature deer in the herd. But, your right QDM isn’t regulated by anyone, but does get practiced in the state in many areas, especially in the NE and SE.
With the great number of quality bucks in your state, there is obviously a high number of non-resident hunters(myself included) applying for tags every year. My question to the Iowa deer hunters is, does the price on your resident deer license annually go up? If not, what is the DNR/State doing with all that revenue?

Hey Whitetails, I know the annual deer tags go up but only about every three or four years. Its the state resident liscenses that go up more year by year. I know that serious rut dosent get under way until november and shotgun season dosen’t start until december. Its a split season with 5 days the first and i think 7 or 10 the second with about 4 to 5 days inbetween to give the deer and hunters a rest. I haven’t hunted with shot gun for about 5 years now, just bowhunted. I know theres alot of rolling hills here that are harder too hunt but thier a bonus for the deer to escape and the right hunters to take advantage of. Theres lots of smaller timbers here, hundreds of them with the millions of acres of tmbers along creeks, rivers, reserviours and state land. One of the biggest assets to the deer is iowas state forests of cornfields lol. With millions of acres of cornfields and the browse they produce, this is what farmers feed thier cattle and hogs too fatten them up, Its no wonder they grow so good. I don’t get serious about bowhunting until they start picking the corn around the timbers i hunt because most of the deer are in the corn until its picked. Cover is cover to a deer. With the ideal growing conditions, food, cover, etc, and lack of serious hunting pressure its no wonder they can grow old and have rarely to never for some had to dodge a hunters bullet. They take quite a few big deer here during shotgun season with deer drives but theres always places the deer run too and hide to see another year. I’ve been to southern minnesota and theres a hills there too, similar to Iowas habitate in places but theres just more of it here. I think the 4 main reasons why theres alot of sizable deer here is hunting pressure, food, habitate and the already big deer herds. This wasen’t the case when i was growing up in my teens. I could go out and see a few deer when in the woods all day but now i can just drive my car almost anywhere in Cedar Rapids and see them. 2,800 head just in town here last count about 5 years ago by dnr ifrared at night. I could go over to the railroad tracks tonight and watch them all night long. With the already big heards, food, lack of serious hunting pressure etc. the deer have everything going for them. This is why theres so many here. The dnr would have to make three or four seasons to shotgun and jump the possession limit more to lessen the herds alot. I think that if they shotguned only in southern minnesots that would help alot to bring up the numbers and leave more bucks. Hunting pressures the no. 1 thing i see in minnesota. I think the thing that would do the most good to bring up the numbers of bucks, up there, is doe or unantlered deer only for a couple of years. If the dnr did that here we’ed definately have many more bucks but some of the glamour would wear off too if thier everywhere. Its the older smater bucks that keep my attention. Later

Hey Whitetails, I know the annual deer tags go up but only about every three or four years. Its the state resident liscenses that go up more year by year. I know that serious rut dosent get under way until november and shotgun season dosen’t start until december. Its a split season with 5 days the first and i think 7 or 10 the second with about 4 to 5 days inbetween to give the deer and hunters a rest. I haven’t hunted with shot gun for about 5 years now, just bowhunted. I know theres alot of rolling hills here that are harder too hunt but thier a bonus for the deer to escape and the right hunters to take advantage of. Theres lots of smaller timbers here, hundreds of them with the millions of acres of tmbers along creeks, rivers, reserviours and state land. One of the biggest assets to the deer is iowas state forests of cornfields lol. With millions of acres of cornfields and the browse they produce, this is what farmers feed thier cattle and hogs too fatten them up, Its no wonder they grow so good. I don’t get serious about bowhunting until they start picking the corn around the timbers i hunt because most of the deer are in the corn until its picked. Cover is cover to a deer. With the ideal growing conditions, food, cover, etc, and lack of serious hunting pressure its no wonder they can grow old and have rarely to never for some had to dodge a hunters bullet. They take quite a few big deer here during shotgun season with deer drives but theres always places the deer run too and hide to see another year. I’ve been to southern minnesota and theres a hills there too, similar to Iowas habitate in places but theres just more of it here. I think the 4 main reasons why theres alot of sizable deer here is hunting pressure, food, habitate and the already big deer herds. This wasen’t the case when i was growing up in my teens. I could go out and see a few deer when in the woods all day but now i can just drive my car almost anywhere in Cedar Rapids and see them. 2,800 head just in town here last count about 5 years ago by dnr ifrared at night. I could go over to the railroad tracks tonight and watch them all night long. With the already big heards, food, lack of serious hunting pressure etc. the deer have everything going for them. This is why theres so many here. The dnr would have to make three or four seasons to shotgun and jump the possession limit more to lessen the herds alot. I think that if they shotguned only in southern minnesots that would help alot to bring up the numbers and leave more bucks. Hunting pressures the no. 1 thing i see in minnesota. I think the thing that would do the most good to bring up the numbers of bucks, up there, is doe or unantlered deer only for a couple of years. If the dnr did that here we’ed definately have many more bucks but some of the glamour would wear off too if thier everywhere. Its the older smater bucks that keep my attention. Later

Quote:

---

Good thoughts, I wasn’t expecting to see so many replies.
I think the state made a mistake, in issueing “Buck Only” licenses when trying to manage the states deer population. The state made it acceptable to shoot anything with a rack as a means to controll the population, when we probably should have been shooting antlerless deer for pop. controll. This year will be the first step towards that.
How many of you that hunt the 3A gun season applied for the antlerless permit?
I my self didn’t. The reason being, I’m a bowhunter first and a gun hunter second. Applying for tha doe permit in 3A and then tagging a doe during the 3A season cancels out your archery tag for the rest of the year, which in zone 3 means through Dec. 31st.
In a perfect world the dnr would give the hunters in 3A the opportunity to apply for an intensive harvest tag instead of an either sex permit. Any thoughts on that?

---

I think there is still a lot of confusion with the new 3A season in MN. At first I thought the doe permit for 3A was an extra tag so you could take a buck and a doe like the old doe season, but if I understand it correctly it is an either sex tag one deer only.

Whitetails4ever I understand where you are coming from as a bowhunter if you use your regular shot gun tag then your regular archery tag is no good. On the other hand hopefully this will encourage more gun hunters who have a doe permit to hold out for a better buck, if they do not see one they can take a doe at the end of the season. After the gun season is over my deer hunting takes a back seat to pheasant hunting and fishing on pool 4, I messed up this year and forgot to apply for the permit, I will next year and hopefully there will be more available. I also agree with you that it would be nice to have that doe permit a management tag so it would not cancel out your archery tag.

Gianni,
I agree with Whitetails4ever that one of the reasons there are more mature bucks in Iowa than MN is that the gun season is not during the peak rut when the young buck are the most vulnerable. Having Iowa’s gun season after the peak rut is a form of QDM.

Quote:

---

Good thoughts, I wasn’t expecting to see so many replies.
I think the state made a mistake, in issueing “Buck Only” licenses when trying to manage the states deer population. The state made it acceptable to shoot anything with a rack as a means to controll the population, when we probably should have been shooting antlerless deer for pop. controll. This year will be the first step towards that.
How many of you that hunt the 3A gun season applied for the antlerless permit?
I my self didn’t. The reason being, I’m a bowhunter first and a gun hunter second. Applying for tha doe permit in 3A and then tagging a doe during the 3A season cancels out your archery tag for the rest of the year, which in zone 3 means through Dec. 31st.
In a perfect world the dnr would give the hunters in 3A the opportunity to apply for an intensive harvest tag instead of an either sex permit. Any thoughts on that?

---

I think there is still a lot of confusion with the new 3A season in MN. At first I thought the doe permit for 3A was an extra tag so you could take a buck and a doe like the old doe season, but if I understand it correctly it is an either sex tag one deer only.

Whitetails4ever I understand where you are coming from as a bowhunter if you use your regular shot gun tag then your regular archery tag is no good. On the other hand hopefully this will encourage more gun hunters who have a doe permit to hold out for a better buck, if they do not see one they can take a doe at the end of the season. After the gun season is over my deer hunting takes a back seat to pheasant hunting and fishing on pool 4, I messed up this year and forgot to apply for the permit, I will next year and hopefully there will be more available. I also agree with you that it would be nice to have that doe permit a management tag so it would not cancel out your archery tag.

Gianni,
I agree with Whitetails4ever that one of the reasons there are more mature bucks in Iowa than MN is that the gun season is not during the peak rut when the young buck are the most vulnerable. Having Iowa’s gun season after the peak rut is a form of QDM.

Quote:

---

Having Iowa’s gun season after the peak rut is a form of QDM.

---

That’s sort of a cheat. Iowa’s gun season has always been late, but it’s because when I was a kid, there just weren’t that many deer in this state. Clayton, Alamakee, and along the southern border have always had their share, but where I grew up in Buchanan Co if you saw a deer you called the neighbors – it was that rare.

Now I bowhunt in that same area. There’s quite a few deer around, although the above areas still have lots more. I’ve seen several 150+ bucks, with at least two that might break 180.

My understanding of QDM is that only antlerless deer and bucks with 3+ tines on one side can be shot. These are hardly ‘mature’ deer in most cases, but it provides a better buck/doe ratio and improves the quality, stability, and survivability of the overall herd.

If we’re talking about trophy management, that’s something different.

Quote:

---

Having Iowa’s gun season after the peak rut is a form of QDM.

---

That’s sort of a cheat. Iowa’s gun season has always been late, but it’s because when I was a kid, there just weren’t that many deer in this state. Clayton, Alamakee, and along the southern border have always had their share, but where I grew up in Buchanan Co if you saw a deer you called the neighbors – it was that rare.

Now I bowhunt in that same area. There’s quite a few deer around, although the above areas still have lots more. I’ve seen several 150+ bucks, with at least two that might break 180.

My understanding of QDM is that only antlerless deer and bucks with 3+ tines on one side can be shot. These are hardly ‘mature’ deer in most cases, but it provides a better buck/doe ratio and improves the quality, stability, and survivability of the overall herd.

If we’re talking about trophy management, that’s something different.

Intensive harvest tag for does or antlerless only, is the ticket Steve. Tell the dnr to leave the bucks grow by doing this. There will be a big diffrence in a few years as some have already stated in michigan and kansas. It’ll work there too! I know the rut goes on until feburary here, The main rut is in late october and november, december will see some of the deer still breeding during shotgun season but the mainstay of does are already bred befor shotgun starts. I arrowed my buck in december with a breeding doe by his side.

Intensive harvest tag for does or antlerless only, is the ticket Steve. Tell the dnr to leave the bucks grow by doing this. There will be a big diffrence in a few years as some have already stated in michigan and kansas. It’ll work there too! I know the rut goes on until feburary here, The main rut is in late october and november, december will see some of the deer still breeding during shotgun season but the mainstay of does are already bred befor shotgun starts. I arrowed my buck in december with a breeding doe by his side.

I’ve got to put this one in to. When the deer herds here weren’t as big the main reason why it was bucks only was to get the count up to more does per square mile and still have a deer season for hunters. Everybody knows a buck will service alot of does in a year. If its bucks only to be taken it leaves all the does protected to make the herds bigger. Once a capita of deer per square mile is attained you can start to let some of the does go on tags or over population is going to happen in the future. With a big desire too shoot bucks only, that takes the numbers of bucks to a minimum in some places because its all ages of bucks being taken. If a deer herd has enough does in it and bigger racks are desired then its wise to hunt only mature bucks or put in place a minimum of a certain point buck like they’ve done in michigan. If a guy dosen’t get to fill his tag with a nice buck, when the seasons end is near then he can take a doe for the table and tag price and let the smaller bucks get bigger for next year. His odds of getting a bigger one next year is going to be better. This may be the only way its going to happen is through personal selective harvest or minimum point rules. Both will work.

I’ve got to put this one in to. When the deer herds here weren’t as big the main reason why it was bucks only was to get the count up to more does per square mile and still have a deer season for hunters. Everybody knows a buck will service alot of does in a year. If its bucks only to be taken it leaves all the does protected to make the herds bigger. Once a capita of deer per square mile is attained you can start to let some of the does go on tags or over population is going to happen in the future. With a big desire too shoot bucks only, that takes the numbers of bucks to a minimum in some places because its all ages of bucks being taken. If a deer herd has enough does in it and bigger racks are desired then its wise to hunt only mature bucks or put in place a minimum of a certain point buck like they’ve done in michigan. If a guy dosen’t get to fill his tag with a nice buck, when the seasons end is near then he can take a doe for the table and tag price and let the smaller bucks get bigger for next year. His odds of getting a bigger one next year is going to be better. This may be the only way its going to happen is through personal selective harvest or minimum point rules. Both will work.

We have intensive harvest tags for the 3B gun season (doe Season) and for the archery season, but not the 3A gun season (buck season)
This just does not make any sense to me if the DNR wants to balance the deer herd why don’t they let us take two deer during the 3A shot gun season?

We have intensive harvest tags for the 3B gun season (doe Season) and for the archery season, but not the 3A gun season (buck season)
This just does not make any sense to me if the DNR wants to balance the deer herd why don’t they let us take two deer during the 3A shot gun season?

MossyDan, harvesting enough does is still a problem here. Before QDM was adopted the DNR gave out tons of doe tags and they just never got filled. They finally said OK if we cant manage our deer herd because guys dont like to fill doe tags instead of spikes We’ll have to protect those young bucks so that enough will mature to be prime breeders….hence QDM.
Gator…its not another hunter telling you what you can or cannot shoot, its the law in the management area that is a QDM area. Hopefully based on the management needs for the deer herd in that area. If there is a good balance of age class bucks and good buck-doe ratio, you don’t need QDM.
I do NOT support QDM simply because somebody just wants to get trophy bucks but as a tool to improve the herd in general.

MossyDan, harvesting enough does is still a problem here. Before QDM was adopted the DNR gave out tons of doe tags and they just never got filled. They finally said OK if we cant manage our deer herd because guys dont like to fill doe tags instead of spikes We’ll have to protect those young bucks so that enough will mature to be prime breeders….hence QDM.
Gator…its not another hunter telling you what you can or cannot shoot, its the law in the management area that is a QDM area. Hopefully based on the management needs for the deer herd in that area. If there is a good balance of age class bucks and good buck-doe ratio, you don’t need QDM.
I do NOT support QDM simply because somebody just wants to get trophy bucks but as a tool to improve the herd in general.

I agree Steve, to me theres nothing wrong with taking both of your deer during one time slot. During buck season it still could be a minimum on the point system to get a better walking rack in future years plus your doe for the intensive harvest quote. This makes total sense to me because lots of guys can take only one vacation a year. Less mental pressue to me to take both deer in one time slot. Some might be more apt to fill both thier tags on does because they will get more meat than to hold out to shoot a very minimum buck. After all theres more does and next years season.

I agree Steve, to me theres nothing wrong with taking both of your deer during one time slot. During buck season it still could be a minimum on the point system to get a better walking rack in future years plus your doe for the intensive harvest quote. This makes total sense to me because lots of guys can take only one vacation a year. Less mental pressue to me to take both deer in one time slot. Some might be more apt to fill both thier tags on does because they will get more meat than to hold out to shoot a very minimum buck. After all theres more does and next years season.

Ya Tom, I hear what your saying. WE have the same problem here with an over abundace of does. The dnr is getting very keen on what to do and letting more doe tags go where thier needed. I know guys here who buy 6 to 8 taghs and fill them all and eat every bit of thier work. I learned alot from local bowhunters at the local archery lanes. 9 out of 10 guys will tell anybody that theres absolutely nothing wrong with taking a doe. If im asked weather i’d shoot a big old large doe for the table or a younge minimum 5 pointer, i know what im going to say, hell yes i’d rather take the doe. Theres no glamour or wise edacate in taking a minimum buck. Thier the first to come to a bad calling practice spree from an out of tune grunt tube. When it comes to the table or making sausage everybody should realize if thier REALLY after quality bucks then take a doe or antlerless. This will always work to get nicer bucks and keep the does in check.

Ya Tom, I hear what your saying. WE have the same problem here with an over abundace of does. The dnr is getting very keen on what to do and letting more doe tags go where thier needed. I know guys here who buy 6 to 8 taghs and fill them all and eat every bit of thier work. I learned alot from local bowhunters at the local archery lanes. 9 out of 10 guys will tell anybody that theres absolutely nothing wrong with taking a doe. If im asked weather i’d shoot a big old large doe for the table or a younge minimum 5 pointer, i know what im going to say, hell yes i’d rather take the doe. Theres no glamour or wise edacate in taking a minimum buck. Thier the first to come to a bad calling practice spree from an out of tune grunt tube. When it comes to the table or making sausage everybody should realize if thier REALLY after quality bucks then take a doe or antlerless. This will always work to get nicer bucks and keep the does in check.

Steve you want me to sign a petition to send to the minnesota dnr? I will. If thier really serious about getting the doe population in check why not pay full price on the buck tag, half price on the doe tag and every one there after $5 or $10 bucks on any season. Watch that get attention and change minds for a better selective harvest. They’d help the herd and make more money too plus educate, via cheap advertising, for something that needs to be done. I know in oklahoma last year they lifted the poaching laws because of the size of thier deer herd. What else could they do? shurly not pay to have them thinned out.

Steve you want me to sign a petition to send to the minnesota dnr? I will. If thier really serious about getting the doe population in check why not pay full price on the buck tag, half price on the doe tag and every one there after $5 or $10 bucks on any season. Watch that get attention and change minds for a better selective harvest. They’d help the herd and make more money too plus educate, via cheap advertising, for something that needs to be done. I know in oklahoma last year they lifted the poaching laws because of the size of thier deer herd. What else could they do? shurly not pay to have them thinned out.

Quote:

---

Gator…its not another hunter telling you what you can or cannot shoot, its the law in the management area that is a QDM area. Hopefully based on the management needs for the deer herd in that area. If there is a good balance of age class bucks and good buck-doe ratio, you don’t need QDM.

---

Tom does Michigan have QDM laws that are enforced by the state or the DNR? In MN QDM only exists within private groups on private land, as far as I can tell the MN DNR has no interest in QDM. Also are there other states that have QDM laws on the books?

Quote:

---

I might as well chime in on this one. This is a very touchy subject for me. I have made a personal choice on my standards for what I will or will not shoot in a buck. This being said I do not believe that I have the right to tell somebody else what they can or cannot shoot when they paid the money for the same license that I have. I would have a real problem if somebody told me I could not shoot a legal deer because it does not meet their standards. I will acknowledge that shooting young bucks is not good for the quality of deer in any area but it is not my place to tell somebody else this.

Just to be clear, I do not shoot immature bucks.

Gator Hunter

---

I think what Gator Hunter is referring to here is that he would not judge a person or look down on them if they shot a smaller buck then he would take. Gator, thanks for the input, I could not agree with you more

Correct me if I am wrong but I do not believe that WI has any QDM laws either, I have enough trouble keeping up on all of the MN deer hunting laws

I think MN probably has the most laws & the most confusing deer hunting laws in the United States

Quote:

---

Gator…its not another hunter telling you what you can or cannot shoot, its the law in the management area that is a QDM area. Hopefully based on the management needs for the deer herd in that area. If there is a good balance of age class bucks and good buck-doe ratio, you don’t need QDM.

---

Tom does Michigan have QDM laws that are enforced by the state or the DNR? In MN QDM only exists within private groups on private land, as far as I can tell the MN DNR has no interest in QDM. Also are there other states that have QDM laws on the books?

Quote:

---

I might as well chime in on this one. This is a very touchy subject for me. I have made a personal choice on my standards for what I will or will not shoot in a buck. This being said I do not believe that I have the right to tell somebody else what they can or cannot shoot when they paid the money for the same license that I have. I would have a real problem if somebody told me I could not shoot a legal deer because it does not meet their standards. I will acknowledge that shooting young bucks is not good for the quality of deer in any area but it is not my place to tell somebody else this.

Just to be clear, I do not shoot immature bucks.

Gator Hunter

---

I think what Gator Hunter is referring to here is that he would not judge a person or look down on them if they shot a smaller buck then he would take. Gator, thanks for the input, I could not agree with you more

Correct me if I am wrong but I do not believe that WI has any QDM laws either, I have enough trouble keeping up on all of the MN deer hunting laws

I think MN probably has the most laws & the most confusing deer hunting laws in the United States

Steve
If you think Minnesota has the most confusing laws try being like me. Born and raised in Minnesota then transplanted into Wisconsin. I’m having a bear of a time trying to figure out the laws over here.

Gator Hunter

Steve
If you think Minnesota has the most confusing laws try being like me. Born and raised in Minnesota then transplanted into Wisconsin. I’m having a bear of a time trying to figure out the laws over here.

Gator Hunter

Bucks are smart animals. Just because you pass up the shot at one doesn’t mean your neighbor will get him. Yes, it happens but not all the time. I haven’t shot a buck for 2 years now. I continue to pass on small bucks and instead harvest a doe or two each year. Everyone in our hunting party does the same. Now 2 neighboring properties do the same also. We have seen an increase in the number of 2 1/2 year old bucks already. We do have one group that will shoot anything they see, but these older bucks have learned to avoid those neighbors.

What I am saying is anything helps. I do my part and if you believe in QDM, then you do your part. QDM doesn’t sell enough licenses so it will never be part of the state’s management plan. It is up to individuals and groups to take this one by the horns.

Bucks are smart animals. Just because you pass up the shot at one doesn’t mean your neighbor will get him. Yes, it happens but not all the time. I haven’t shot a buck for 2 years now. I continue to pass on small bucks and instead harvest a doe or two each year. Everyone in our hunting party does the same. Now 2 neighboring properties do the same also. We have seen an increase in the number of 2 1/2 year old bucks already. We do have one group that will shoot anything they see, but these older bucks have learned to avoid those neighbors.

What I am saying is anything helps. I do my part and if you believe in QDM, then you do your part. QDM doesn’t sell enough licenses so it will never be part of the state’s management plan. It is up to individuals and groups to take this one by the horns.

Here is the link to the web site:

Quality Deer Management Association (QDMA)

Here is the link to the web site:

Quality Deer Management Association (QDMA)

MY UNDERSTANDING ON THE 3A HUNT IS THAT IT IS BUCK ONLY UNLESS YOU GET A DOE PERMIT BY LOTTERY IF YOU BOUGHT YOUR LICENSE BEFORE SEPT 4TH.

I HUNT 3B, AND I BELEIVE THAT IS AN EITHER SEX TAG.