Correcting "hard mouth" / chomping live birds

So my almost 2-year old chocolate male lab has not been exposed to too many live birds yet but so far, he has been overly aggressive with them. I believe this is commonly referred to as “hard mouth”. This is the first fall hunting with him and he seems have plenty of drive and instinct which is great. We have hunted public land a number of times but kept coming up empty so I took him to a game farm to get him on some live birds. He has been worked with frozen pigeons and seemed to be ok but at the game farm he caught two birds and chomped on them so hard they had broken bones and bites all through the meat when he brought them back. The bird he actually flushed he brought back in the same condition.

Now I have read about some methods but I’m not about to wrap a dummy in barbed wire or “spike” a bird or dummy. Are there any more humane or better ways to brake this habit? Is it an age thing? I know plenty of guys that have younger dogs that never did this. Is it a male dog thing more than a female dog thing? Maybe just needs more exposure to live/warm birds?

I just want to be careful so I don’t scare him away from picking up and retrieving birds but I want him to know it’s not ok to destroy them. I have not had him out duck hunting (does not sit still very well….) just pheasant hunting. Someone said to start with more hardy/durable birds like ducks as pheasants are too delicate.

I will admit that while a pup my family did play tug-o-war and keep-away type games which I had put a stop to a few months back.

I have been trying to reinforce the fetch / retrieve work and also the hold work but not with birds. He is fine with dummies and toys but when it comes to birds he just gives me the impression he is going to eat one whole one of these days….

Any suggestions would be great.

Thanks,
Dave

I think its just an experience thing. When my dog was 1 or under, she used to chomp the birds pretty good (broken bones and punctures in the meat). Now that she is older, shes doesn’t feel the need to anymore, of course this is a thousand birds later into her career. Its tough for dogs who are encourage to “GET THE BIRD” at all times and sometimes the bird is not dead or running or flopping around.

I think game farming as much as you can would be the best bet. When they hunt all day on marginal public or private to get a hold of just a few or no birds the urge to really “enjoy” the one they do fetch is great. If there is alot of flying birds, scent and shooting they will realize their job is done and want to get on to the next one.

I would think that he would get over it with training and repetition, but i guess some dogs could just be MAULERS too.

A stiff bristled scrub brush with a pelt on the back side will help with most hard mouth issues. Had to use it on our English Pointer a few years back after a bad grouse trip. After the first few times of the bristles poking them in the roof or tongue they learn to pick it up a little more gently.

Force Fetch him. If you do not want to do it then take him to a professional. I had a hard mouth lab. I finally had to force fetch him you use all sorts of object in the traing so we stuck with hairbrushes with bristles plastic pop bottle with krinckly aluminum foil. Frozen and freshly killed pigeons with plain wire wrapped on them. It worked. I do not beleive there is a passive way to break the habit of crunching live birds. Force fetch makes them learn fetch is a command that must be obeyed and since its done on the bench you can correct the bite.

Mwal

Force Fetch is the best way to fix that. Make sure you use hard plastic dummies when force fetching and it is also a control thing with live birds. I have had numerous dogs come in that have that problem and there are lots of things to fix that.

After you have a dog forced or are working on it you can use multiple things to fix it. Stiff brushes, wooden dowel with screws, Chickenwire wrapped birds, frozen birds etc have all worked. The main thing is training and a respect thing. Sometimes the dog is thinking it is food, and kinda giving the you the middle bird of that makes sense, so having a good obedience trained dog will help as well. IF you are not experienced with force fetch go to a local field trial grounds or group and have some one show you. I know a lot of people out there say that they do not need to force fetch, but it allows you to move that dog into an advanced stage for retrieving.(ie blind retrieves, double/triples etc.) It is very important part to do and it does take a while. Sometimes sending them to a trainer for 2 month to have that done is a great investment or send him for the winter well worth it. Otherwise join your local retriever training group their are tons of them around. Access to free training advice, birds, land to train and meet some other people.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I know I have some work to do and I have been reading all I can on-line about force fetch, hold and the things associated with these. Trying to get between 1-3 sessions in each day with him on the various topics but schedules don’t always allow it. I am also trying to balance all this with the family to make sure there is a consistent message being received and the fact that Drake is a family member 90% of the time and a hunting dog 10% of the time.

Happy Holidays to everyone and thanks again.
Dave

If you do the force fetch on your own Dave make sure you know your plan before you go out and stick to it. There are many different methods to do force fetch. I prefer doing most of my training table.One thing I have found out on this is if you go out and second guess yourself on training your outcome will never be what you are looking for. You want to have a very strict plan each time you train.
If you are thinking about having a professional or possibly someone that would
be able to help in your area let me know. I am still not an expert but know of some very good trainers in our area.