Any bankers here?

In watching the Trump trial I’m wondering how the banks allowed him to over-value his properties. Was it a case of over-sight? Was a bank official bribed? Or was it the bank wanted all the interest and fee’s they could collect?

I guess I’m confused because anytime I took a second mortgage on anything I needed an appraisal, it didn’t matter what I thought my property was worth.

I don’t care if he’s guilty or not I’m just curious how he is personally liable from the banks point of view. I see this as a mistake by the banks.

If Forbes values the Twins at 2 billion dollars a buyer would still need to prove that figure to a lending institution, otherwise I would buy the Twins.

I dont get that either Dutch. Maybe commercial property is different than residential, but I cant imagine it is. The one thing that might get blown up would be assets other than property itself.

And the fact he never defaulted on any of the “loans”… this is a political witch hunt to keep him off the ballot. We all know it… the prosecutor campaigned on promising to do this. 3rd world regime tactics at best.

Meanwhile, the big guy wants to forgive all student loans, but wouldn’t forgive his brothers “loans” ? Receiving payments like crazy…

Thanks G but i really don’t wanna dive down that rabbit hole. I’m just curious how the bankers aren’t responsable.

Im not super familiar with this case. But in general banks will always get it to appraise for the right value.

CaptainMusky wrote:

Maybe commercial property is different than residential…

It is.

First of all, as an officer of a legal entity like a corporation, you have a legally binding obligation not to commit fraud. And you sign a lot of paperwork that acknowledges this obligation and what the penalties are if you break it.

Weather or not that fraud, in your opinion, actually harmed another person or entity is not material. You are legally required not to engage in fraud, full stop.

Businesses are different from personal finance. Legal business entities have a long list of legal obligations that they must adhere to and they agreed to do this because of the legal protections that these entities are afforded in return. The integrity of our system of business and how those businesses are governed and protected relies on this adherence.

Secondly, the value of commercial property has as much to do with the owners business plans and future plans as it has to do with the current state of the property. For example, I may own an older apartment complex full of working class tenants and say it’s currently valued at $5 million. But what if I tell you I have plans to bulldoze the whole complex and turn it into a gated community of luxury homes within 3 years? What’s the value now? Most would say a lot more because of these plans. But of course I cannot commit fraud by making up these future plans that I have no intention of executing just to increase your perception of value. Again, material misrepresentation is fraud.

You can’t justify fraud by turning around and saying well the other party didn’t catch me at it or wasn’t harmed by it so it doesn’t matter.

That’s the problem. EVERYBODY knows its a political witch hunt to keep him off the ballot ! But were not concerned with that right now… the media tells us not to be. Instead lets research if he did something 100% of lenders allow everyday in big banks. I’m out of this one. Witch hunt. Period.

is it really a witch hunt when people on both sides of the aisle don’t want him on the ballot? the more and more you look into his personal business activities, the more red flags keep popping up.

You would be amazed at how many large transactions happen with very light due diligence. “That is Bob’s cousin, its fine” kind of stuff. There are also wires for hundreds of millions of dollars going to the wrong banks or not being sent at all, it still shocks me how often it happens.

Which candidate are you referring to?

In reference to Gitchi Gummi statement…

both

331 million Americans

181 million Americans aged 35 or older (age to run for POTUS)

…

And these are the 2 people we spit out as the final “candidates” not once, but twice.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fincen-fines-trump-taj-mahal-casino-resort-10-million-significant-and-long
Totally a witch hunt. If they wanted to punish Trump for fraud they would have been doing it for years right?

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>CaptainMusky wrote:</div>
Maybe commercial property is different than residential…

It is.

First of all, as an officer of a legal entity like a corporation, you have a legally binding obligation not to commit fraud. And you sign a lot of paperwork that acknowledges this obligation and what the penalties are if you break it.

Weather or not that fraud, in your opinion, actually harmed another person or entity is not material. You are legally required not to engage in fraud, full stop.

Businesses are different from personal finance. Legal business entities have a long list of legal obligations that they must adhere to and they agreed to do this because of the legal protections that these entities are afforded in return. The integrity of our system of business and how those businesses are governed and protected relies on this adherence.

Secondly, the value of commercial property has as much to do with the owners business plans and future plans as it has to do with the current state of the property. For example, I may own an older apartment complex full of working class tenants and say it’s currently valued at $5 million. But what if I tell you I have plans to bulldoze the whole complex and turn it into a gated community of luxury homes within 3 years? What’s the value now? Most would say a lot more because of these plans. But of course I cannot commit fraud by making up these future plans that I have no intention of executing just to increase your perception of value. Again, material misrepresentation is fraud.

You can’t justify fraud by turning around and saying well the other party didn’t catch me at it or wasn’t harmed by it so it doesn’t matter.

Banks big enough to finance these properties aren’t looking at “stated plans” to base their lending decisions off. They are looking at current & prospective cash flow which, along with Cap rates, drive property values.

When you finance commercial real estate there are various add-backs to cash flow that are either deemed non-cash or nonrecurring items that are used to lower your taxable income. When those expenses are added back, the appraised value gets inflated because you are increasing your NOI – appraised value is your NOI divided by the Cap Rate. For instance, if you are running NOI of $500,000 and a Cap Rate of 5% your income cap value is roughly $10,000,000. So what I assume the prosecutor is trying to prove is that the income statement was including deductions that went above and beyond the tax code to avoid income taxes. On the financial statements, the corporations are saying those subject expenses were non-cash or nonrecurring and should be added back to the cash flow for a higher property value. That’s where you get different “stated” values.

Appraisals get too much credit & reliance when in reality it’s just a point-in-time value.

Riverrat wrote:

Totally a witch hunt. If they wanted to punish Trump for fraud they would have been doing it for years right?

Then by that logic, this statement is also true, right?
Totally a witch hunt. If they wanted to punish Biden for fraud they would have been doing it for years right?

big_g wrote:

this is a political witch hunt to keep him off the ballot.

Hopefully it works.

I’ll be voting for Manbearpig, if it happens to be Trump and Bonehead on the ballots.

I will be torn between turd sandwich vs giant douche

TillrLife wrote:

Hopefully it works.

I’ll be voting for Manbearpig, if it happens to be Trump and Bonehead on the ballots.

buckybadger wrote:

331 million Americans

181 million Americans aged 35 or older (age to run for POTUS)

…

And these are the 2 people we spit out as the final “candidates” not once, but twice.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Shoot, for 20 years we couldn’t find somebody not named Bush or Clinton and we came dang close to shooting for 24, which could’ve well turned into 28 (Obama only beat Hilary by .1% of the popular vote in the 08 primary).

I also don’t understand how the banks wouldn’t perform an appraisal or have some sort of audit in place. I wouldn’t however go so far as to say that the banks are 100% liable for this issue. At best the banks didn’t do their due diligence AND trump mislead them which is fraud.

Those that say it’s a witch hunt are right. Trump is also a criminal. I find it a weak and hypocritical argument to say trump should be left alone but in the same breath demand that biden or hunter or killary be locked up. Either you respect the law and want all individuals who commit crimes locked up or you don’t.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Trump will never see the inside of a prison. America doesn’t punish rich powerful people. The only exception I can think of is that epstein and he isn’t even close to as powerful as trump and it took him being convicted for having sex with minors and running a sex ring before it happened. Even if trump was found to be involved in that himself many would still want him on the ballot. Like trump himself said, “I could shoot someone in broad daylight on 5th Avenue and people would still vote for me.” How right he is

It’s sad, but the fact he could get elected should tell you something about what people think of his opponent.

Back to the topic…..I think that the banks are 100% at fault. If they don’t do their due diligence thats their problem. They were the ones extending the credit lines and giving loans. While it’s true the client shouldn’t out and out forge documents (which I don’t know that he did) it shouldn’t be 100% on him that the banks didn’t do their jobs. I think the dollar signs got so large they just turned their backs, closed their eyes and went ahead and granted the loans. By the way, which banks are after him?

Dutchboy wrote:

It’s sad, but the fact he could get elected should tell you something about what people think of his opponent

I dont think the opponent has much at all to do with it. Jesus could be on the Democratic ballot and the majority of registered Republicans would still choose trump for president.

Back to the topic… ya it will be interesting to see the outcome. I predict he will be found guilty and sentenced to a fine and time served. I’m not a lawyer so I could be wrong here but my understanding is the charges are about fraud. The question isn’t who is responsible for covering their own ass. It’s whether trump knowingly lied about the value of his properties in an effort to profit. Thats fraud. If the banks did their due diligence, which I can’t believe they didn’t with how much money we are talking about, it’s just an unsuccessful attempt at fraud. If the allegations are true that is

He’s already lost this case. Trump has already been found liable. The current proceedings are only to determine how much liability. It’s a civil case so there’s no possibility of jail.

The other 91 felony charges are another story.

biggill wrote:

It’s a civil case so there’s no possibility of jail

Thanks for the clarification

I’m shocked u think that Dutch. Your a business fella, can you imagine the teams needed from these banks to comb thru and confirm all the numbers needed for these loans, insurance rates, whatever it is etc? It would take years, and hundreds of folks, things would never get done.

Why can’t we expect any business, large or small to report proper #’s? In your argument it’s OK to lie and it’s on others to catch you? I don’t get it.

crappie55369 wrote:

I dont think the opponent has much at all to do with it. Jesus could be on the Democratic ballot and the majority of registered Republicans would still choose trump for president.

Not even close because everyone knows that if that were the case Republicans would vote for Jesus because they are the only party that at least tries to worship him.

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>crappie55369 wrote:</div>
I dont think the opponent has much at all to do with it. Jesus could be on the Democratic ballot and the majority of registered Republicans would still choose trump for president.

Not even close because everyone knows that if that were the case Republicans would vote for Jesus because they are the only party that at least tries to worship him.

That’s an inaccurate statement because Trump is currently not running against Biden, he’s running against other Republicans for the party nomination. And just like 2016, registered Republicans have the opportunity to choose between some (maybe a few) good people or a guy that insults everyone from mentally challenged to women to our highest military leaders and gold star families. No one really thinks Trump is a decent person at all right? So again, like 2016, the choice for the GOP nomination is one of the biggest POS in American history or someone else for the party. And his worshippers will still fill in the circle next to their lord and savior.

Dan, while Trump is a despicable human and cannot shut his damn mouth my comment still stands and is completely accurate.

I re-read what you wrote and you’re right. I do think both of our posts are accurate. And the first part of your most recent post made me laugh quite a bit

big_g wrote:

That’s the problem. EVERYBODY knows its a political witch hunt to keep him off the ballot ! But were not concerned with that right now… the media tells us not to be. Instead lets research if he did something 100% of lenders allow everyday in big banks. I’m out of this one. Witch hunt. Period.

Remind me again how a fraud conviction keeps someone from being on the ballot?
We all know Fox news wouldn’t lie to it’s viewers, instead they’ll just omit the facts so that you remain angry and ignorant.

Not one charge in any of the cases would disqualify him. Even though it sure as hell should.

Now, one would think that republicans would not vote for someone convicted of fraud for a fake university, or someone that was convicted of defrauding a veterans charity, or fraudulently inflating and deflating the values of properties to obtain loans and pay less tax.
Or that they wouldn’t vote for a man who grabs women by the pussy, cheats on his wife and pays off pornstars.
One would assume that republicans would have a problem with someone who took and refused to return top secret documents and stored them in his shitter.

Republicans love our military. You would think there might be an issue with Trump insulting injured veterans. One would also assume that Trump calling dead soldiers “suckers” might be an issue. Of course, republicans did try to cut veteran healthcare by 22% after a two decade war, so I guess it isn’t actually that surprising.

You would also assume that the Christian right might take issue with him calling pastors ‘hustlers’ as well as being “full of poop”. Fake news probably.

Trump is a election losing, convicted fraud, convicted rapist charlatan with another 91 charges coming at him. The real suckers are the clowns that vote for him.