Anyone know which flasher/ice unit has the best target separation? I own a LX7 and am familiar with how good the separation is on the FL28, but I was wondering if any of the other units are competitive in this dept. I am considering a switch to the fl28 because of this. Thoughts, opinions, Adjustments to the LX7 to improve this?
Marcum has always claimed the best tasrget separation on the market. I believe the FLX28 is better than older Vex units but I’m not sure it’s better than what Marcum claims.
Personally, I don’t believe there is much difference between the two. I’ve used both and have never wished I had better separation. I could always tell by looking at my Vex if a minnow head fell off my spoon.
If you are looking for a reason to switch, this isn’t one of them. Besides, you’d be giving up the graphing function.
Honestly, I don’t think you’ll ever be able to distinguish the moot difference between Vex and Marcum. You will, however, notice a distinct difference with Humminbird if you set them side-by-side. They are not very good in the target separation department…
Target separation a moot. At a few inches a fish can see the bait. It really doesn’t matter if you can tell weather it is one inch vs 3/4”. The fish can see it right?
I am not sure that is true of the newest Humminbird Helix Ice Gen2, is it?
Honestly, I don’t think you’ll ever be able to distinguish the moot difference between Vex and Marcum. You will, however, notice a distinct difference with Humminbird if you set them side-by-side. They are not very good in the target separation department…
If you use the 2d view on a helix unit the separation seems pretty darn good to me. Also really easy to tell the size of fish/behavior if you have it dialed in right. I haven’t owned any other units so I guess I can’t compare them, but after using a buddy’s vex for a season I’ll always be using some kind of scrolling 2d sonar.
I am not sure that is true of the newest Humminbird Helix Ice Gen2, is it?
Haven’t used the G2, I have the G1. According to the HB website, it has not changed much. 1.5″ of target separation on the G2 Helix units, compared to 2.5″ on the 35, 45, 55 and G1 Helix units.
1/4″ vs 2″ on the FLX 28 and VX1i is a big difference. It’s the difference between seeing 4 small perch or one big blob you think is a walleye. It also helps with finicky fish that swim up to the bait and breathe on it.
1/4″ vs 2″ on the FLX 28 and VX1i is a big difference. It’s the difference between seeing 4 small <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>perch or one big blob you think is a walleye. It also helps with finicky fish that swim up to the bait and breathe on it.
The op has a LX7 not VX1i. He is wondering if it is worthwhile to switch from the LX7 to a FLX28.
Target separation a moot. At a few inches a fish can see the bait. It really doesn’t matter if you can tell weather it is one inch vs 3/4”. The fish can see it right?
I don’t believe you fully understand what target separation means and how it works.
It’s the difference between seeing 4 small perch or one big blob you think is a walleye
The explanation above is pretty accurate however; One must remember that a 2d sonar only sees and measures distance in one direction. That direction being a straight line between the transducer and the object reflecting the signal.
Think of the signal as spokes of a bicycle wheel with the “lure” being a spoke at true 90 degrees vertical. For sake of this discussion let us say the reading is 20 foot.
Lets also say that the red star directly below the lure is 1 foot deeper. Therefore you will see two marks on your screen, one at 20 foot and one at 21 foot.
Now lets also say there are two more fish represented by the stars on the left and right of the lure. The sonar will see these fish as being 20 and 21 foot AWAY FROM THE TRANSDUCER. Therefore you will continue to see ONLY TWO marks on the screen. Even thought there may be quite a distance between all the fish, the sonar is only seeing the distance as shown.
True, the marks will likely get bolder/brighter because of the increased echo but one will not see separate lines until the fish move into a separate “arc” from the transducer.
This is where “target separation” comes into play. Target separation is the minimum distance between these arcs that will trigger a separate line to be shown on the display.
PS; The drawing below is the fish and the lure as they sit in the water, NOT as shown on the display.
target-seperation.jpg
until manufactures provide info on how they derive their target separation spec’s, they don’t mean squat and cannot be used as a basis of comparison between dissimilar units. There are so many factors that impact target separation and a unit’s ability to actually display the separation…
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>dbv2 wrote:</div>
I am not sure that is true of the newest Humminbird Helix Ice Gen2, is it?Haven’t used the G2, I have the G1. According to the HB website, it has not changed much. 1.5″ of target separation on the G2 Helix units, compared to 2.5″ on the 35, 45, 55 and G1 Helix units.
I’d say going from 2.5 to 1.5 is a pretty significant improvement. I have the G2 and I have been very happy with the separation vs my vex and my buddies marcum.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>ejdelvo28 wrote:</div>
1/4″ vs 2″ on the FLX 28 and VX1i is a big difference. It’s the difference between seeing 4 small <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>perch or one big blob you think is a walleye. It also helps with finicky fish that swim up to the bait and breathe on it.The op has a LX7 not VX1i. He is wondering if it is worthwhile to switch from the LX7 to a FLX28.
Ah, for some reason I had VX1 in my head instead of LX-7.
until manufactures provide info on how they derive their target separation spec’s, they don’t mean squat and cannot be used as a basis of comparison between dissimilar units. There are so many factors that impact target separation and a unit’s ability to actually display the separation…
X2
There are no standards out there for specs that I am aware of. One mfg states on spec the other states another. My experience using numerous sonars is I personally never felt that any one particular sonar was any better than the other . (or that it mattered much) .I have used and still own all the following except the LX7 and Vex FL8. LX7, LX5, Showdown 5.6 Dual Beam, Show Down Ice troller 2, and Hummingbird 788ci. I actually use the SD 5.6 DB more than any of them. I think it is one of the most underrated ice sonars on the market. I dont miss the LX7 (slow firmware updates and execution of the release reasons for selling it) The vex was sold to upgrade to the LX5. I was trying to get satisfied with the LX7 and only used it for 5 years and decided to sell it. Tried the LX5 again only to have to replace the motor. I rarely used it. Still dont use it after fixing it. Had to have the seals replaced in the Showdown 5.6 due to fogging display. Next season I intend to give the HB Helix gen 2 a trial
PS Marcum states the Showdown 5.6 Dual Beam has 1/2″ target separation but that is not why I like it. Nice to know but I think too much is made of it.
Bob
I absolutely understand target separation. Everyone get tied up it the sales not the actual need. There is no reason to need such separation. in summer we move the bait to fish but they look it out same as winter. either they are under your feet or not. sure you can see if there are a few baitfish around but if they don’t bite who cares move on as all of us do. biting fish will eat if the want non won’t. having to tell if there are fish down there is the most important. in summer we run a boat over the top and the separation isn’t as good as winter units and it doesn’t matter. most guys started with a fl 8 and probably caught fish just as they are with the newest stuff it is all just a marketing campaign to sell new stuff. all units do pretty much the same thing each have there plusses and minuses. Mostly preference. Fish move to eat so the game of micro inches is not really a big deal. they eat or not.
I just bought an ice pack for my Lowrance elite 5 hdi (locator for my boat). Once you dial in the settings, I think these units have far greater target separation than any flasher
wow lots of great Info posted on the topic. sounds like I need to just bite the bullet and get the panoptics!!!
I just bought an ice pack for my Lowrance elite 5 hdi (locator for my boat). Once you dial in the settings, I think these units have far greater target separation than any flasher
I’ve been using a HDS 7 gen 2 onnice and have noticed the same thing. I also use a FLX 28 on ice but really like using the Lowrance for bottom dwelling fish so much more than my vex.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>WWW wrote:</div>
I just bought an ice pack for my Lowrance elite 5 hdi (locator for my boat). Once you dial in the settings, I think these units have far greater target separation than any flasherI’ve been using a HDS 7 gen 2 onnice and have noticed the same thing. I also use a FLX 28 on ice but really like using the Lowrance for bottom dwelling fish so much more than my vex.
For bottom fish I like the graph view of LX6.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>WWW wrote:</div>
I just bought an ice pack for my Lowrance elite 5 hdi (locator for my boat). Once you dial in the settings, I think these units have far greater target separation than any flasherI’ve been using a HDS 7 gen 2 onnice and have noticed the same thing. I also use a FLX 28 on ice but really like using the Lowrance for bottom dwelling fish so much more than my vex.
I used my HDS7 for two seasons but went back to a Vexilar FL18. I actually like the display on the HDS7 much better. I got tired of the weight and size of the HDS7 when hole hopping. Right now I am thinking of investing in a Marcum LX6s.
Notice I said “investing” as in something that will give me a return on my money. As opposed to “purchase” as in something that depreciates. 
I used my HDS7 for two seasons but went back to a Vexilar FL18. I actually like the display on the HDS7 much better. I got tired of the weight and size of the HDS7 when hole hopping. Right now I am thinking of investing in a Marcum LX6s.
Notice I said “investing” as in something that will give me a return on my money. As opposed to “purchase” as in something that depreciates.
Investing! I love it.
Something to consider if you want to use your HDS unit, while pricey, look at getting either a lithium battery or the Marcum lithium shuttle. Much of the weight is the battery with these things. Is your HDS unit a Gen2 or a Touch?
If you were to purchase, er I mean invest, get a Gen 3 touch. They are about half the weight of the “non-touch” units. The Gen3 models have the buttons too so you don’t have to worry about issues with the touch screen with gloves on or the “grounding” issue.
Mine is a gen2 and I bought a lithium battery. Put it on a genz blue box and it was lighter than my vex. The rapala lithium battery just died on me though.
Are you guys talking actual 2d or the dial on the sonars?
The separation can’t be beat when it comes to flashers, not sure it can be argued as far as that goes. My jigging rap in 25′ takes up about a foot of sonar realty on screen with hdi5. Don’t think it’s that big!
But, there is so much more information on a 2d screen that it becomes more valuable than whatever kind of separation you may have with flashers. Bottom dwellers pop out like sore thumb.
My hdi5 rocks as well. 2d all the way.
Its funny how about 50% of the ice fishing population thinks whatever flasher they have is without a doubt, the best there is on the market.
I think there’s quite a bit of variation in performance with any model of flashers. There’s quite a few lemons out there for all brands. I’ve fished next to a brand new FL28 this year that was worse off than a FL8… I’ve used two different LX7s, one was awesome and made me want to buy one, the other was worthless to me because its return was very inconsistent and laggy. I’ve had a ICE 55 and ICE 35 fish right next to each other before and it seemed like the 35 was performing better overall.
Are you guys talking actual 2d or the dial on the sonars?
The separation can’t be beat when it comes to flashers, not sure it can be argued as far as that goes. My jigging rap in 25′ takes up about a foot of sonar realty on screen with hdi5. Don’t think it’s that big!
2D mode. You will need to adjust your sensitivity to make your lure show up typical and scroll speed and possibly ping rate for ice use. It also helps to create a custom depth range. Like say 5 ft to 30 feet if you are in 25 feet. You don’t really care about the top 5 feet and you wont get the scale auto adjusting which causing some issues while in 2D mode. If you aren’t experiencing that now, then I wouldn’t mess with that, but I have had that in the past when I was close to a depth where the scale wanted to change and it would jump back and forth. Doing a custom depth range allows you to use the full screen more wisely.
What you’re talking about musky must be with better units than the hdi. No such options of adjustable depth ranges there.
Like the zoom feature with 2d. 2x and 4x will show fish coming in before it’s picked up on the full range.
What you’re talking about musky must be with better units than the hdi. No such options of adjustable depth ranges there.
Like the zoom feature with 2d. 2x and 4x will show fish coming in before it’s picked up on the full range.
My HDS does everything that musky mentioned. I’d be surprised if the HDi didn’t do the same.
The zoom and scroll buttons will give you a custom zoom. The ping and scroll speed are a must on every 2d sonar and I’m sure yours has at least that.
Its funny how about 50% of the ice fishing population thinks whatever flasher they have is without a doubt, the best there is on the market.
What I find funny is that 10-12 years ago, I was running a Lowrance X67c on the ice and 95% of ice fishermen scoffed at it. “There’s a delay. The screen will slow down in the cold. Graph display is stupid.” Flash forward to now, and everyone acts like these “summer” units are the latest and greatest things. 
That being said, if anyone is looking to upgrade and has an affordable Vex or Marcum flasher to unload, lemme know.
I have owned, currently own, or have fished with these units: VX1, LX5, LX9, FL8, FL20, FL28, ICE35, and ICE55. I would rate the target separation of those units in this order: (worst) FL8, ICE35, FL20, VX1, FL28, ICE55, LX5, LX9 (best). The gain adjustment on the LX5 is amazing and almost pushes it past the 9 but the 5 colors on the 9 definitely puts it on top even if it struggles somewhat in shallow water. The gain adjustment on the Vex’s, in my opinion, is absolute garbage. If I can’t get my tungsten jig to show up smaller than a 1/2″ red blob than I’m not using that flasher.
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