Red Lake Walleye at Cub Foods

I have a Cub in my back yard and walk over for most of my shopping. They are advertising Red lake Walleye this week for $9.99/lb. I think I should be offended by this, but I don’t know how offended. I was not happy that one of the first actions after the fishing ban was lifted was to open a cannery. I was not happy that Mystic Lake help pay for the building of this business. I understand the “value” of the resource to the community and I appreciate the fact that there isn’t a whole lot of opportunities in this area for economic development.

How do others feel? Should we be bothered by this? Does it matter if they come from Canada or Red Lake (assuming the resource is properly managed this time and is sustainable)?

Thanks for your opinions

That is a tough one. I’m a little pissed that we laid out hundreds of thousand $$$ to bring the lake back, and now they are back to netting. Oh well, they own 2/3 of the lake..

I will bite…
Pisses me off anytime only one race is allowed to do something.

chris-tuckner wrote:

That is a tough one. I’m a little pissed that we laid out hundreds of thousand $$$ to bring the lake back, and now they are back to netting. Oh well, they own 2/3 of the lake..

Specifically the Red Lake Nation (reservation) includes all of Lower Red and 2/3’s of Upper Red. This is essentially a “closed” reservation unlike most others that are more or less open to cross within their borders but that was negotiated by long ago treaty’s. You DO NOT want to get caught on the tribal waters of Red Lake. It is like a foreign country in that non tribal members are not at all allowed on Lower Red or the 2/3’s of Upper Red.
I would guess there could be some strong opinions regarding this but the fact is most of the Red Lake commercial harvest takes place near the processing facility (not cannery) in Redby on Lower Red. So what ever they take or however they manage that, we have no “interests” in what happens there. Unlike other fisheries ie; Erie, LOTW, Lake Winnipeg, that also share sport angling…all of Lower Red does not share that. There can be debate about the shared resource on Upper Red but how much commercial harvest takes place up there…no one knows but the Red Lake band.
In my opinion I have less objection about this in that is is an economic opportunity for the band and you cannot argue they are “raping our lake” because it is not our lake. Furthermore, this is a source of revenue less objectionable to me than huge casino money making machines.

It was still our money and help to bring back the lake. The whole lake. That’s all I am saying. I guess what they do with the lake is their biz. I would hate to see their hands out if something like overharvesting due to commercial fishing ever brings the lake down again.
I am not saying it will happen. Just saying!

How much walleye did you buy Dave?

I refuse to comment, I’m having enough trouble dealing with Mille Lacs

Here is a related discussion on this here forum from 2006. Worth going back to see?? https://www.in-depthoutdoors.com/community/forums/topic/ftlnorthernmn_328407/#post-1289947

sticker wrote:

How much <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>walleye did you buy Dave?

I refuse to comment, I’m having enough trouble dealing with Mille Lacs

Best quote of the day right there!

what exactly are you offended by? im not judging but just trying to understand. Are you offended that your local Cub chose to sell the items? Its not a secret that Walleye are being harvesting on Red Lake by tribes. Would it be better if it were sold somewhere else?

I guess what im saying is its long been common knowledge that the Ojibwe are harvesting, processing, and selling walleye from Red Lake so I don’t understand the source of frustration in seeing some of the items for sale.

From reading your post it sounds to me like you just object to the Ojibwe harvesting Walleye on Red Lake period and the fact that you saw the items at Cub Foods sparked that objection in your mind. Again just trying to understand your perspective here.

I refuse to buy walleye or order it in a restaurant. It rarely tastes as good as fresh from a lake.

I guess part of my question was, should we care enough to express our displeasure on the issue to Cub Foods too?

chris-tuckner wrote:

It was still our money and help to bring back the lake. The whole lake.

I wouldn’t buy it, but wouldn’t be offended either.

my personal opinion if a guy is worried about how the money is used and what not don’t go to the casino.

DaveB wrote:

I guess part of my question was, should we care enough to express our displeasure on the issue to Cub Foods too?

You could…while you’re at it you might also want to check and notify them if you find any coffee they’re selling that is not “Rain-Forest Certified”

slipbob_nick wrote:

I wouldn’t buy it, but wouldn’t be offended either.

my personal opinion if a guy is worried about how the money is used and what not don’t go to the casino.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe Red Lake has a casino. I do believe that Mistake Lake may have helped them in re-building the lake with $.
Again, what they do with the walleye is their business. I just don’t want to deal with any overharvest issues on our dime again.

DaveB wrote:

I refuse to buy walleye or order it in a restaurant. It rarely tastes as good as fresh from a lake.

I guess part of my question was, should we care enough to express our displeasure on the issue to Cub Foods too?

I have no problems with either the Red Lake Nation harvesting walleyes or Cub Foods reselling them.
If you want to express your displeasure to Cub Foods you have the right to do so, but please take the “we” out of it.

Offended? Not really but if it is true that our money went to re building the lake that “we” only get to fish 1/16 of after “they” depleted the resource and “they” contributed zero of their own $ then I am a little pissed off. Cub probably knows zero history of UPRL, they just think they are helping out the local economy. I have fished that lake many times and know a lot of what went on so, I refuse to eat walleye unless it came from my livewell. There is actually a website that you can buy direct…Redlakewalleye.com.
They hate the white man up there with a passion so no need to give them my money. If you are bored, swing into a gas station on the rez up there and see for yourself.

Not offended but I will never support the indian tribes on anything until they want to join the USA! Sorry not politically correct but thats the way I see it.

Businesses that I have dropped supporting or have never supported because of this: Any and all tribe owned casinos, Cabela’s, Ron Schara productions and of course Red Lake walleyes which were solicited to me via post card advertisement in the mail a few years back.

chris-tuckner wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe Red Lake has a casino. I do believe that Mistake Lake may have helped them in re-building the lake with $.
Again, what they do with the walleye is their business. I just don’t want to deal with any overharvest issues on our dime again.

They do…Seven Clans Casino in the town of Red lake, however not many go there. Wonder why?

eyeguy507 wrote:

Offended? Not really but if it is true that our money went to re building the lake that “we” only get to fish 1/16 of after “they” depleted the resource and “they” contributed zero of their own $ then I am a little pissed off. Cub probably knows zero history of UPRL, they just think they are helping out the local economy. I have fished that lake many times and know a lot of what went on so, I refuse to eat walleye unless it came from my livewell. There is actually a website that you can buy direct…Redlakewalleye.com.
They hate the white man up there with a passion so no need to give them my money. If you are bored, swing into a gas station on the rez up there and see for yourself.

Since you didn’t click on the link I posted above to the previous discussion here on IDO, you obviously are uninformed. BTW, to suggest “they” depleted the lake and that “we” had no guilt in contributing to the collapse of the fishery is ignorant. Here then is a copy of the letter from Gary Barnhard to IDO forum member “farmboy1″…
Brent,
There were three major stockings done for restoration purposes into the Red Lakes. The initial stocking in 1999 was approximately 42 million fry, with 31 million in 2001, and 32 million in 2003.
Eggs were obtained by MN DNR from the Pike River run from Lake Vermilion. Eggs were incubated, hatched, and marked at a DNR hatchery near Bemidji. The Red Lake DNR assisted with marking and distribution of fry to Red Lake.
Estimated costs for egg collection, hatchery and administrative costs were approximately $68,000 per stocking event. The Red Lake Band and the Bureau of Indian Affairs, reimbursed the MNDNR $40,000 per stocking event. All three of these stocking events were exceptionally successful. I am certain that the restoration cost to MN anglers will be very quickly recovered in angling opportunity and economic return from the incredible fishery that has developed.
In addition to the restoration stocking, there were two smaller evaluation stocking events in 2004 and 2005 using 4-7 million fry. Though full scale stocking was no longer necessary it was important to have some marked fry in the system to be able to estimate wild fry production and recovery progress. This proved valuable by documenting exceptional wild fry production from our restored brood stock in excess of our earlier stocking efforts.
Eggs for the evaluation stockings were collected directly from the Blackduck River tributary to the Red Lakes by the Red Lake DNR and incubated and marked in the MNDNR hatchery. Since the Band did the egg collection and the State did the incubation, no reimbursement was exchanged for these collaborative efforts.
It should be noted that besides the actual costs and monetary reimbursements there has been considerable collaboration on all aspects of this recovery effort, of which egg collection and fry stocking has been just one part of a much larger process.
Thank you for your interest and feel free to contact me with any further questions.
Gary

Gary Barnard
Bemidji Area Fisheries Supervisor
218-755-2974

So, it’s their lake and they need the income generated from the Walleye? Bogus excuse. If it was about the money build a motel on Lower Red, include a special license with your own limits. Charge whatever you want and advertise it as a trophy opportunity for giant Perch, Pike, Walleye. If you had a 50 unit motel you wouldn’t have a empty room. Use only native guides. It would become a opportunity to print money without raping the resource.

You couldn’t get me on Red Lake with a offer of free lodging. What they did was a slap in the face to every tax paying Minnesotan.

eyeguy507 wrote:

Offended? Not really but if it is true that our money went to re building the lake that “we” only get to fish 1/16 of after “they” depleted the resource and “they” contributed zero of their own $ then I am a little pissed off. Cub probably knows zero history of UPRL, they just think they are helping out the local economy. I have fished that lake many times and know a lot of what went on so, I refuse to eat walleye unless it came from my livewell. There is actually a website that you can buy direct…Redlakewalleye.com.
They hate the white man up there with a passion so no need to give them my money. If you are bored, swing into a gas station on the rez up there and see for yourself.

Gee, I wonder why they ‘hate the white man’ up there? It’s almost like genocide and forced re-location to the bowels of the US takes a toll on the relationship between the white man and indians.

This is separate from the Mille Lacs arguments/debates, but from my perspective, the tribes that live on the Red Lake reservation don’t have a whole lot going for them. What revenue generating options do they have up there? Their casino isn’t bringing in millions like Mystic Lake does.

Am I offended that a group of individuals who have historically been screwed over by our government try to utilize one of the only natural revenue sources they have to make some money? Not in the least.

At some point ‘the white man’ sounds like an entitled little baby when we complain that ‘these indians’ get to do something we don’t. Take a look at your environment/opportunities you have and your children have and contrast that to the opportunities a child growing up on the Red Lake rez has, I’m inclined to let them use the resource they have to generate a little money. Whether that money is a 100% necessity to their livelihood is irrelevant.

I guess I can live with the other 10,000+ bodies of water we have the right to harvest fish from.

Did people think that the small population of indians who live on the reservation wanted Red Lake to flourish again so they could sport fish the lake?

philtickelson wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>eyeguy507 wrote:</div>
Offended? Not really but if it is true that our money went to re building the lake that “we” only get to fish 1/16 of after “they” depleted the resource and “they” contributed zero of their own $ then I am a little pissed off. Cub probably knows zero history of UPRL, they just think they are helping out the local economy. I have fished that lake many times and know a lot of what went on so, I refuse to eat walleye unless it came from my livewell. There is actually a website that you can buy direct…Redlakewalleye.com.
They hate the white man up there with a passion so no need to give them my money. If you are bored, swing into a gas station on the rez up there and see for yourself.

Gee, I wonder why they ‘hate the white man’ up there? It’s almost like genocide and forced re-location to the bowels of the US takes a toll on the relationship between the white man and indians.

This is separate from the Mille Lacs arguments/debates, but from my perspective, the tribes that live on the Red Lake reservation don’t have a whole lot going for them. What revenue generating options do they have up there? Their casino isn’t bringing in millions like Mystic Lake does.

Am I offended that a group of individuals who have historically been screwed over by our government try to utilize one of the only natural revenue sources they have to make some money? Not in the least.

At some point ‘the white man’ sounds like an entitled little baby when we complain that ‘these indians’ get to do something we don’t. Take a look at your environment/opportunities you have and your children have and contrast that to the opportunities a child growing up on the Red Lake rez has, I’m inclined to let them use the resource they have to generate a little money. Whether that money is a 100% necessity to their livelihood is irrelevant.

I guess I can live with the other 10,000+ bodies of water we have the right to harvest fish from.

Did people think that the small population of indians who live on the reservation wanted Red Lake to flourish again so they could sport fish the lake?

Feel all warm and fuzzy now? Yes the Red Lake Band is poor. But, where are all the wealthy bands helping Red Lake out? Mystic Lake, Mille Lacs, Treasure Island are all able to help out but don’t seem to be. Before you call me a racist my thought is this. Play by the same laws and rules all the other citizens of the United States do and you can enjoy the same benefits also. I don’t support any of the band businesses nor will I. They can have it their way if they want but I won’t help. BTW, we pounded the British, We pounded Mexico, we pounded Germany and we never let them establish a country within our country. And, I’m not just talking about Red Lake either. I’m also talking about the Millions Mille County spends on fire and police to protect the Mille Lacs reservation. How about this……………they nets and sell all the Walleye they want and we put a stop to BIA money flowing in.

Not really offended, but I get the frustration. At the end of the day, any wild caught Walleye for the table is a touchy subject.

Look at the Winnipeg fishery as of late. The Canadian Government knows of the concern, yet they refuse to suspend quotas that they SOLD to the public for over harvesting Walleye. You need to look at the big picture. Is it cheaper for them to buy back the quotas and suspend fishing or to spend a boatload of money to attempt to increase populations.

In terms of Red lake, it’s a different ball game with all sorts of treaties and other stipulations. Should the state pay to restore a fishery where only 40% of ONE of the lakes are fish-able by the general public? That’s the big question at hand. From everything I’ve read about Red lake, the tribes only harvest a meager amount of fish compared to the general public each year. The actual numbers I do not know, nor care to spend the time to look them up again.

Dutchboy wrote:

Feel all warm and fuzzy now? Yes the Red Lake Band is poor. But, where are all the wealthy bands helping Red Lake out? Mystic Lake, Mille Lacs, Treasure Island are all able to help out but don’t seem to be. Before you call me a racist my thought is this. Play by the same laws and rules all the other citizens of the United States do and you can enjoy the same benefits also. I don’t support any of the band businesses nor will I. They can have it their way if they want but I won’t help. BTW, we pounded the British, We pounded Mexico, we pounded Germany and we never let them establish a country within our country. And, I’m not just talking about Red Lake either. I’m also talking about the Millions Mille County spends on fire and police to protect the Mille Lacs reservation. How about this……………they nets and sell all the Walleye they want and we put a stop to BIA money flowing in.

That’s some ignorant s#!t overall but I’d especially like to comment on the idea that we let them establish a country within our country.

We didn’t let them, we made them. The Treaty of Old Crossing is described as:

Arriving at the treaty site on September 21, 1863, with a cavalcade of “290 army men, 340 mules, 180 horses, 55 big oxen and 90 vehicles and wagons”, ex-Governor Ramsey set up his tent while the soldiers set up a Gatling gun trained on the assembled Red Lake band of Ojibwe on the opposite side of the river. A day or two later, the Pembina band arrived, and negotiations ensued.

The whole idea that the Indians pulled one over on us or something is ridiculous. I don’t like the current system either but it was architected by the US government. It’s the US that created the system, not the Indians.

Dutchboy wrote:

Feel all warm and fuzzy now? Yes the Red Lake Band is poor. But, where are all the wealthy bands helping Red Lake out? Mystic Lake, Mille Lacs, Treasure Island are all able to help out but don’t seem to be. Before you call me a racist my thought is this. Play by the same laws and rules all the other citizens of the United States do and you can enjoy the same benefits also. I don’t support any of the band businesses nor will I. They can have it their way if they want but I won’t help. BTW, we pounded the British, We pounded Mexico, we pounded Germany and we never let them establish a country within our country. And, I’m not just talking about Red Lake either. I’m also talking about the Millions Mille County spends on fire and police to protect the Mille Lacs reservation. How about this……………they nets and sell all the Walleye they want and we put a stop to BIA money flowing in.

———————-
Warm and fuzzy? Nah, just empathetic. Truth is that life is a lot harder on the reservation than it is in the suburbs. What is your proposal for them? Join the USA or something somehow and all of a sudden they will have all the same opportunities and benefits that we do? How would that work? “From this day forward we will give up our treaty rights and join the american society. We will sell our houses on the reservation and move into Maple grove and all will be well.”

Wasn’t planning on calling anyone a racist, so you’re safe there(apart from a guilty conscious perhaps).

Kind of disengenuous to call out the other bands for not helping. First off, the wealthier bands do donate money to others. The Shakopee band of indians donate millions of dollars every year to a variety of charities and other indian tribes. But why aren’t all the wealthy white folks, or black folks, or Mexican folks donating to all their un-wealthy brethren? That’s just unrealistic. Not to mention that all the native american bands aren’t exactly best of friends.

I understand we have fought other countries but what exactly are you asking? Are you asking why we didn’t allow the British to setup a country in the US after the Revolutionary War? Or why we didn’t allow the Nazis to setup a country within the US after we fought them in Europe? I think the answer is simple, the indians were native to this country and we stamped them out. They didn’t have anywhere to go. I suppose we could have just killed all of them, but is it hard to understand why things worked out how they did?

If you’d like we could go into some detail on how the settlement of the US was different than the US traveling to WWII to fight the Nazi’s. But I don’t see how that’s a relevant example.

I mentioned in my post that I was specifically talking about Red Lake, so I won’t comment on the Mille Lacs stuff.

Way to go Dave! Look what you started. I will have to get the popcorn ready later tonight

The ignorant and just plain stupid things that some fishermen (or at least some internet fishermen) say very loudly about all this makes me feel like I have to qualify my identity — I am not part of the “we” in this context. I am a fisherman, but I am not on board with the guys who hate the tribes.

This is identity politics at its worst. Could some of you please just shut up and stop making “us” look bad?

Very simple solution. Don’t buy walleye and stay out of the casinos.

john23 wrote:

The ignorant and just plain stupid things that some fishermen (or at least some internet fishermen) say very loudly about all this makes me feel like I have to qualify my identity — I am not part of the “we” in this context. I am a fisherman, but I am not on board with the guys who hate the tribes.

This is identity politics at its worst. Could some of you please just shut up and stop making “us” look bad?

My original intent was to talk about whether it is reasonable to support businesses who sell MN commercially harvested walleye in MN. To me, who is doing it makes no difference.

DaveB wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>john23 wrote:</div>
The ignorant and just plain stupid things that some fishermen (or at least some internet fishermen) say very loudly about all this makes me feel like I have to qualify my identity — I am not part of the “we” in this context. I am a fisherman, but I am not on board with the guys who hate the tribes.

This is identity politics at its worst. Could some of you please just shut up and stop making “us” look bad?

My original intent was to talk about whether it is reasonable to support businesses who sell MN commercially harvested walleye in MN. To me, who is doing it makes no difference.

Fair enough — I agree that that’s a legitimate question. I typically don’t buy walleye for a lot of reasons, but this discussion got ugly in a hurry. If a reasonable discussion about selling commercially harvested walleye takes place, I hope that the discussion includes thoughts about guides, resorts and others who profit from a public resource that even PETA members have to pay for.

Dutch! Wow! SMH…. On a related note how was Charlottesville?