18″ min. length limit on eyes?

  • chris dymale
    west bend, wi
    Posts: 57
    #1241171

    The wdnr is proposing an 18″ minimum length limit on walleyes on the Chippewa Flowage in Hayward, wi.
    What do you think about this?
    I personally think this is a horrible idea. Not only will several people who call the flowage home during the open water season leave, many tourists will bypass the area in favor of more opportunities elsewhere.
    I would rather see a slot limit introduced where legal “eyes” are 14 to 18 inches and one over 18 per day (a 3 fish limit).
    if the wdnr makes this to 3 fish over 18″ per day, all the spawners will be taken out of the system in a few short years.
    this proposal has not passed yet, but it does have it’s backers in Madison from behind their desks, and will be voted on in the April hearings.
    What do you think?

    Richard V.
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts: 2596
    #857775

    A number of lakes are like that in Kansas as well. The 18″ females are just starting to be mature and at the same time they are being harvested. Not to mention the 20 21 22 23 24 inchers, you take all of these fish out and you have removed the most prolific spawners…

    jhalfen
    Posts: 4179
    #857776

    The proposal is not just for the Flowage, but for 21 lakes in NW Wisconsin that have historically been managed for walleyes and have had strong natural reproduction. In recent years, walleye recruitment has fallen sharply, and the WI DNR (including the local fisheries biologist, Frank Pratt) have proposed a two-prong approach to restoring these fisheries. One part of the approach is to keep sexually mature females (including the < 18″ ones) in the lake for several spawning seasons before they become subject to harvest. It’s a numbers game….there are more females < 18″ in the lakes than there are ones > 18″, so if we want keep more females contributing to the spawn, the smaller fish must be protected. The second part of the process involves liberalizing bass regulations to knock down bass predation on young walleyes. Here is some more info, direct from the DNR:

    Quote:


    Restoration of waters primarily managed for walleyes: Twenty-one lakes in Barron, Bayfield, Burnett, Polk, Rusk, Sawyer, and Washburn counties are waters in which restoration of natural walleye reproduction is the primary management objective. Each had a walleye population sustained by natural reproduction within the past twenty years, but for unknown reasons reproduction significantly declined in recent years and stocking is now needed to maintain those walleye fisheries. Naturally reproducing walleye populations generally have an adult population 3-5 times greater than stocked walleye populations. To address this walleye population decline, the Department is proposing a three-component experimental restoration program.

    The first component is a significant reduction in angler harvest of spawning-age and sub-adult walleyes in order to rebuild the spawning population. The department proposes to increase the minimum size restriction for angler harvest of walleyes to 18”, and reduce the daily bag limit for walleye from 5 fish to 3 fish.

    During the same period, abundance of largemouth and smallmouth bass (black bass) has increased significantly in many northern Wisconsin waters, particularly in the northwest and including these twenty-one lakes. The cause of the increase is unknown, but we have seen habitat changes favoring black bass such as lower water levels due to protracted drought conditions, increased water clarity, and increased abundance of aquatic plants. Increased angler catch-and-release and more restrictive angling regulations also likely contributed to increased bass abundance. There is disagreement among fisheries scientists whether bass population increases caused the observed walleye declines, but there is evidence that high bass populations could inhibit recovery of consistent natural walleye reproduction through resource competition or predation on juvenile walleye.

    Past survey information and current modeling suggest that bass were significantly less abundant under the no minimum size limit regulation in place before 1989. Growth rates of bass were somewhat faster then, but high angler harvest resulted in very few large fish. Implementation of other bass regulations such as reduced bag limits or the early catch and release season did not affect bass harvest as much as the implementation of a 14-inch minimum size restriction.

    The second component is a significant reduction in bass populations in order to minimize predation or competition with walleyes. The department proposes a no minimum length limit for bass in each of these lakes.

    Research shows that stocking in walleye lakes with good natural reproduction generally does not improve population numbers. However when natural recruitment becomes weak for an extended period, stocking of walleye fingerlings may be necessary to rebuild spawning stock numbers.
    The third component is to monitor the walleye populations and stock walleyes as necessary to ensure there is an adequate spawning stock (subject to budget and hatchery capacity).

    Restoration of strong walleye populations in waters formerly dominated by walleye is generally favored by the majority of anglers who fish these waters and is the goal of this proposed experimental restoration program. The Department strongly recommends that all three components: walleye harvest restrictions, black bass population reductions, and necessary stockings be used on each lake. Although this is an experimental program, The Department is not proposing a sunset provision and instead will monitor any changes and modify the approach as necessary
    The lakes included in the proposal are: Bear, Horseshoe (T36N, R14E, S3, 115 ac.), Lower Turtle, and Upper Turtle (Barron County), Lake Owen (Bayfield County), Big McKenzie and Middle McKenzie (Burnett/ Washburn Counties), Big Butternut, Half Moon, Pipe, and Ward (Polk County), Chain, Clear, Island, and McCann (Island Chain of Lakes, Rusk County), Chippewa Flowage, Nelson, Sissabagama, and Whitefish (Sawyer County), and Long and Nancy (Washburn County).


    I’ll be voting YES on April 12, both for this regulation change and the change to allow trolling county wide in Sawyer county (Question 27).

    mark-bruzek
    Two Harbors, MN
    Posts: 3837
    #857793

    I think you should become proactive rather than reactive. For too long fisherman (and hunters) have not been active in fighting for waht they feel (me included). Maybe we need to group togther and and fight rather than just talk.

    Problem is I just dont know how to go about this. Maybe we can start local chapter fishing groups. Maybe there are such things. If so please let me know so I can start doing my part. -Mark

    Jeff Matura
    Sumner, IA
    Posts: 238
    #857808

    Jason,

    You don’t beleive a slot limit would be a better solution?

    Yes I would agree that right now there would be more little walleyes spawning, but they also produce fewer eggs.

    Now in a few years their should be more bigger fish protected by the slot that also produce far more eggs than the little walleyes.

    Your feelings?

    I will say at least people are doing some thing.

    wally1992
    Evansville MN
    Posts: 278
    #857815

    I find that what has been said on this subject by Jason interesting. In Minnesota they seem to use the slot system. Usually the 13″-17″ is employed. I myself fish a smaller lake and personally only keep walleye from 14″-16″.
    Have I been thinking about this all wrong? Also this particular lake is full of northerns. The kids and i have been keeping and eating more of them thinking they are competing for the same grub as a walleye.
    At the least, it is interesting to see the 2 bordering states using different management tools. Which is corrrect?

    jerry b
    western WI
    Posts: 1506
    #857817

    The lake I summer fish is all 18″ and above. I’d have absolutely no problem with this if it weren’t for the spearing. jerr

    tstatz
    wis
    Posts: 188
    #857822

    I have followed this reg on Grindstone Lake..its does not seem to be working in spite of Frank Pratts opinion.The reason is people suddenly think its ok to kill walleyes over 18. A better aproach would be to stop any sportfisherman from taking any over 18! The tribe also raises caine w ice fishing multiple lines and NO regard for the slot.Then theres the spearing issue. To accomplish anything in restoring fish stocks we need some cooperation from everyone using the resource.

    VSRangerMan
    Chippewa Falls,WI
    Posts: 554
    #857832

    There is a lake in NW WI in which 2 Walleyes over 18″ has been in effect for 2 years. With all the fishing pressure alot of our lakes receive along with old limits of keeping smaller fish 15″+ or under 14″ & 1 over the 18″ size limit a majority of fish never had a decent chance to get large enough to make enough spawn to help aid in some natural reproduction. If the fish cant get big enough for natural reproduction & to make it past the knife with people keeping the smaller fish ,the DNR stocking program would be the only way some of these lakes would have walleyes left in them. The problem of over harvesting our lakes lies with the anglers own practices, not necessarily just the DNR regulations! I have watched a couple lakes that I had guided on become nearly decimated in a couple years because of poor judgements by anglers. Going from being able to harvest 3 million eggs from females in 3 days on a 500 acre lake rearing them in a on site hatchery & released back to their native waters. Then coming back 2 years later,missing 1 year due to the VHS scare to find only a few thousand eggs in a weeks time really had the DNR scratching their head! A portion of the responsibility for the loss of all the larger spawning female Walleyes might be blamed on a 15″ size limit applied on bodies of water by the DNR. But in reality the only way we might have quality fisheries is by our own management practices in conjunction with DNR limits. Also possibly informing others of what might happen to the lakes by harvesting the larger spawning females. Its a fine line the DNR walks on trying to keep the lakes in check. Selective harvest practices by anglers is the only way we might be able to assist in keeping quality fishing here in WI. I would definately vote for a 18″ min. size limit. I wouldnt mind if it were only 2-3 fish over 18″ with a max size limit of 22″. At least it would get fish to respectable spawning sizes & its a coin toss hoping a few make it over the 22″ mark. Just my $.02

    jhalfen
    Posts: 4179
    #857864

    Tom, as I’m sure you know, the reg on Grindstone is just like we have on Wissota: 14-18 protected with 1 over 18. It is not the over-18-only reg that is being proposed for the Flowage.

    One thing Grindstone has going for it vs Wissota is a forage base that will grow lots of bigguns, if we can just grow them to a size to get out there into open water and start chasing those pelagic baitfish.

    I agree whole-heartedly with Whitetip’s comments: until we (anglers) decide that success on a fishing trip can be defined WITHOUT knifing a limit of legal fish, we’ll constantly be fighting a losing battle to sustain and improve our fisheries.

    85lund
    Menomonie, WI
    Posts: 2317
    #857919

    When I read the original post I was like WTF? After reading Jason’s reply and the “rest of the story” (God rest your soul Paul Harvey!) I have to say it makes perfect sense. Thanks for the clarification Jason!

    Joel Ballweg
    Sauk City, Wisconsin
    Posts: 3295
    #857925

    The Wisconsin River below the Prairie du Sac dam and Lake Mendota both have a three fish limit and minimum length of 18″ on them. Most anglers in this area feel it doesn’t work and the fishing for walleyes is worse now than it was before they switched to the 18″, three fish limits. Myself included!

    Many of us would have preferred a slot limit like above the dam and we actually had a referendum pass across the entire state a few years back. After it passed, it died a quick death behind the scenes and was never heard from again.

    Now there talking about not allowing any fish to be kept below the Prairie du Sac dam during the spring spawning season. Catch & release fishing will supposedly be allowed.

    As for getting other anglers to stop harvesting fish over 18″ long? I applaud the effort but just don’t see it ever happening.

    I will definitely be voting against this rule. Don’t let them put this rule through. It flat out doesn’t work. People will be harvesting female walleyes because the rules say they can.

    No one has to listen to me, but I am strongly against the 18″ size limit and have zero faith in its use as a walleye management tool.

    I would be interested if anyone knows of a lake or river that has really good walleye fishing in it and also has the three fish, 18″ limit on it.
    For comparison, how many of you know of a really good walleye lake or river with slot limits?

    This is a no brainer in my book. Shoot it down!

    wifish
    DeForest Wisconsin
    Posts: 8
    #858029

    It’s just like are DNR first they want to shoot all the deer in the state then they want to harvest all the fish in are lakes. Doing a slot is the way to do it.

    bret_clark
    Sparta, WI
    Posts: 9362
    #858047

    It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize taking healthy breeding stock out of a system is a killer. Not to bring the deer heard into the conversation but, the DNR use the theory if we shoot more does there will be more and bigger bucks….yea right

    With the fishing pressure Northern WI lakes see between residence, out of towners and the tribe, a slot is a must and the big females have to be able to reproduce. I’m voting with Joel!

    Too many people have forgotten the sportsman’s battle cry….let em go, they will grow. This holds true whether it be deer or fish.

    3 cents worth

    chris dymale
    west bend, wi
    Posts: 57
    #858261

    Jason, I have to disagree with you. I dont think the 18″ and over is a good idea. With a slot limit, you are protecting the spawners for the future. How and in which way is this a bad or negative thing? I also agree that we as a group need to refurbish the battle cry of “let em go and let em grow!!” The bread and butter fish are the 12 to 17″ and that is what is mostly being taken. yes you are taking some of the smaller fish out, but these fish are not the spawners.
    I also wish that with the spring hearings that there would be more options, not just a black and white-yes or no!!
    i like that this is a heated discussion. it shows we all have a similar passion and that we care about our waterways!!

    John Schultz
    Inactive
    Portage, WI
    Posts: 3309
    #859955

    Yep. What Joel said.

    docfrigo
    Wisconsin
    Posts: 1564
    #860949

    Actually, I 50/50 this management tool.
    1st, 3 fish limit-good to see some restraint, much like dropping the panfish limit down to 10 fish on our local lake.
    2nd, gotta knock back the bass—catch and release has worked toooooo gooooood. esp. largemouths, have been shown to really munch on the young walleyes and have a direct effect on the walleye populations–lots of those bass have to go to a good home called a frying pan.
    3rd, 18 inch limit–this one I can live with, but it’s a stretch. Basically, due to the overpredation of the largemouths on the walleyes (along with the overpredation of the Native Americans with their unlimited spearing and fishing practices), we need more fish in the system. Unfortunately, we need power in numbers, and that is smaller fish to overpower the bass and Native Americans.
    Note to most—many, many, many very large walleyes are speared each spring, remember that when you release one this summer or next fall. Still, I don’t like the idea of bigger fish seeing the knife, so a Mil Lacs slot would be more like it.

    My solution, get the Native Americans hooked on bass rather than walleyes and two birds are killed with one stone–bass are knocked back and walleye population is allowed to rebound nicely!!!

    dentedboatguy
    Posts: 43
    #862312

    This regulation was put into effect in 2008 on Red Cedar lake. At that time most(60-70% of legal walleye) were taken each year out of the system. This was not sustainable long term per the DNR. The 18 inch limit will hopefully give the walleyes 2-3 years of spawning before being harvested. In the two years since I have not caught many legal eyes but each year the fishing has gotten better. Last year in mid August I took my son out and we fished a mid-lake hump. In past years that hump would be devoid of fish, last year it was covered with 15-17 inch eyes, something that I have never seen in the past. This pattern went on the rest of the year. It was like fishing in Canada. It was also a thrill to take my son fishing and catch eyes one after another. Not legal eyes but still fun and my son didn’t care if they were legal or not. I don’t know if this reg will work on other lakes but it sure seems to be working on Red Cedar lake, at least in my experience the last two years. I am really looking forward to fishing Red Cedar this year, I predict it will be on fire and I’m hoping some of those eyes will be reaching the 18 inch size. I know some people will find it hard to keep the larger eyes, however if we harvest eyes over 18 inches they will have at least spawned a couple of years. If they are harvested at 15 inches they may of not even spawned, or at most they spawned only one year.

    Richard V.
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts: 2596
    #862378

    Quote:


    I predict it will be on fire and I’m hoping some of those eyes will be reaching the 18 inch size.


    It don’t work that way, they will almost all be 17 15/16″

    AllenW
    Mpls, MN
    Posts: 2895
    #862527

    Interesting, years back you could show up with a stringer full of 6 walleyes totalling over 37# and you got congrats and a hell of a meal, not anymore..
    We’re taking all the big fish out they say, so no big fish, now everybody can catch little ones, we all know they’re better eating anyway..uh huh..whatever..

    So then we had people releasing them bigger ones and keeping the smaller ones..

    Now we’re gonna not keep the smaller ones because they evedently are being fished out?????

    While I apreceate the effort, it just seems the DNR (any of them) tries hard, but just can’t get it right.
    I’m gonna blame the people in power, they can’t run a govt, much less a conservation program.

    Personally the Ontario limits seem to work well for them and although we’re not them, I think the 3 under 18″ one over isn’t all that bad of a idea.
    Keeps a lot of them 21-26″ fish which we were told do a ton of spawning and lets people bring fish home to eat…imho

    Al

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