Boat Design >20′ ; Interest?

With multiple boat companies offering a tiller over 20′, with the average price being north of $60K, would an open layout fiberglass 20′ tiller (think Lund Alaskan) in the $40,000 range raise eyebrows?

I won’t instill bias with what I think, I am curious whether a simple tiller layout (livewell, rod storage, compartments included) would provide enough benefit to the common man/woman?

The marine industry can be fickle and market research is somewhat convoluted with competition being mostly corporations.

So I came to good ‘ol IDO to gauge market sentiment. If over 50 users chime in with good insight I’ll use a random name generator for a $100 Scheels card, or something.

Thanks for reading!

I’ve run tillers and wheel boats for over 50 years. I still like tillers best. It gives me more room in the boat, and I can maneuver the boat better over structure.

The problem is that most would use a 20′ tiller on bigger water. With the bigger water comes the need for a bigger motor which comes with a higher price tag. As somebody who has run a 20′ tiller getting a glass boat with a decent motor for $40k won’t happen.

John with Crucible Boats will be out with his 20′ in the spring. I’m guessing most will match it with a 175 hp motor or so, although you could get by with a 150 I suppose. My Skeeter had a 115 which was enough until I drove my Lund with a 200.

I’ve seen a lot of guys with Social Media pull on YouTube rave on the benefits of a tiller and am seriously considering for my next boat.

Uncut Angling, Jay Siemens, Clayton Schick, guides, etc…

Not speaking for John, I see the Crucial 20 having a 140 Suzuki with the 200 as an option. Thanks for the insight.

Warrior 1890’s often have a Yamaha 90. As with anything, the customer can have the size of motor desired, within the boats limitations.

I know a console boat has benefits over the tiller, but from a manufacturing perspective not many.

Thanks for the quick replies!

Dutchboy wrote:

The problem is that most would use a 20′ tiller on bigger water. With the bigger water comes the need for a bigger motor which comes with a higher price tag. As somebody who has run a 20′ tiller getting a glass boat with a decent motor for $40k won’t happen.

John with Crucible Boats will be out with his 20′ in the spring. I’m guessing most will match it with a 175 hp motor or so, although you could get by with a 150 I suppose. My Skeeter had a 115 which was enough until I drove my Lund with a 200.

I’m not the target audience, I run a 16 foot tiller. But I’m curious, what about big water demands a big motor? I get wanting a wide beam and plenty of freeboard etc. but I’ve generally based motor size on the boat, not on the size of the lake I plan to visit.

Not to rain on your parade, but as you already know big tillers are a pretty niche market.

Is there money to be made and boats to be sold? Probably

But there’s also a reason Skeeter and Ranger quit making tillers and why the brand Backtroller went defunct.

98% of the market isn’t interested in big glass tillers.

There will always be die hard tiller guys, but the true advantage of tillers has been lost with the advent of spot-lock/GPS trolling motors.

Don’t hate me, I’ve owned multiple tillers, including two Warriors. I still run a little tiller

B-man wrote:

Not to rain on your parade, but as you already know big tillers are a pretty niche market.

Is there money to be made and boats to be sold? Probably

But there’s also a reason Skeeter and Ranger quit making tillers and why the brand Backtroller went defunct.

98% of the market isn’t interested in big glass tillers.

There will always be die hard tiller guys, but the true advantage of tillers has been lost with the advent of spot-lock/GPS trolling motors.

Don’t hate me, I’ve owned multiple tillers, including two Warriors. I still run a little tiller

Agree on all accounts. I would argue that 98% is more like an 80%, and the question is how much of that 20% could a guy capture.

Speaking for Ranger and Warrior, the margins on the 622 and 238 are the reason for the push of all the large console boats. Makes more sense for them to focus on those boats. Great points and agree on the harsh truth.

Now get me started on a Center Console …

I don’t think Backtroller is defunct, I thought it just renamed to Crucial. Maybe there’s a lot more to the story.

Personally I love the idea of a big open Tiller without the lipstick that make Midwest boats boats so expensive.

Personally I have little use for a big tiller but the 40k price tag for 20 plus would likely raise some eyebrows.. I fish too many days where hiding behind that windshield sure is nice .

The next boat I want is the one I die with . Full aluminum , absolutely no wood or plastic . No wood transom . Wash down hoses. Aluminum Low slung dash to fit 2 12 inch graphs easily with large transducer board type material on it . Only one livewell , and tons of storage. Smaller casting deck . Rod storage. Factory tracks system. Full enclosure. Aluminum trailer. Mesh seats that dont rot or get hooks in them . Full and easy access to all bildge/ livewell / and fuel tanks/ wiring harness I could go on ….

Maybe its just me , but I want my purchase to be easily serviceable and last literally for my lifetime and my kids lifetime over creature comforts and sparkles.

Personally I love the idea of a big open Tiller without the lipstick that make Midwest boats boats so expensive.
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I agree with this. Lots of stuff can go away on a boat and I would be happy. Simple easy designs. I don’t need a 200 hp bigger. Half the boat market is a ridiculous out do the last guy and its driven the prices through the roof and half the time the quality isn’t even there. But guys pay for the names.
I always have ran tillers besides the boat I have now. And I will go back when I buy a new boat. I won’t be paying 80k for a boat. So simple easy design with a reasonable motor would be perfect.

isu22andy wrote:

Personally I have little use for a big tiller but the 40k price tag for 20 plus would likely raise some eyebrows.. I fish too many days where hiding behind that windshield sure is nice .

The next boat I want is the one I die with . Full aluminum , absolutely no wood or plastic . No wood transom . Wash down hoses. Aluminum Low slung dash to fit 2 12 inch graphs easily with large transducer board type material on it . Only one livewell , and tons of storage. Smaller casting deck . Rod storage. Factory tracks system. Full enclosure. Aluminum trailer. Mesh seats that dont rot or get hooks in them . Full and easy access to all bildge/ livewell / and fuel tanks/ wiring harness I could go on ….

Maybe its just me , but I want my purchase to be easily serviceable and last literally for my lifetime and my kids lifetime over creature comforts and sparkles.

I am 100 percent on the same page.

I like the idea, but I think it would be really tough to get to that retail price point with a 150+ motor on it which is what most guys would want.

I loved my old tiller, but I moved on to a full windshield and am never going back.

I’d be intrigued.

I’ll be crawling around in a tiller to compare layout or fishability to my current 17’ fiberglass rig when the time comes. I don’t need a 50mph hull and outboard combo for what I do.

The problem I see is it will be very difficult to go to 20 feet and keep the price anywhere in the $40k range. Given the weight of fiberglass, adding adequate power is going to push the price up even higher, it’s not like anyone is going to be happy with a 75 or 90 on a 20-footer these days.

You are also battling customer expectations here in the midwest. Walleye guys are addicted to lots of cushy carpet and plush upholstery, with lots of construction complications. In the 20-foot class, customers will inevitably compare the tiller boat to much classier wheel boats even if they are in a much higher price category. A stipped-down 20-foot tiller boat will look like the redheaded stepchild.

Also, the 20+ foot tiller boat is already being done by multiple companies, but they are doing it in aluminum, not fiberglass. Looking at a few of those models as benchmarks, the $40k range is going to be very difficult to hit.

Thanks for all the different perspectives!

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

The problem I see is it will be very difficult to go to 20 feet and keep the price anywhere in the $40k range. Given the weight of fiberglass, adding adequate power is going to push the price up even higher, it’s not like anyone is going to be happy with a 75 or 90 on a 20-footer these days.

You are also battling customer expectations here in the midwest. Walleye guys are addicted to lots of cushy carpet and plush upholstery, with lots of construction complications. In the 20-foot class, customers will inevitably compare the tiller boat to much classier wheel boats even if they are in a much higher price category. A stipped-down 20-foot tiller boat will look like the redheaded stepchild.

Also, the 20+ foot tiller boat is already being done by multiple companies, but they are doing it in aluminum, not fiberglass. Looking at a few of those models as benchmarks, the $40k range is going to be very difficult to hit.

From a marketing POV, I think you’re spot on. There are certain ABYC regulations that make a larger boat more feasible than a smaller one.

700lb outboards are driving up insane warranty costs to many manufacturers. Those costs are added to the price tag on the next boat. If a person were to design a boat NOT built for the NWT guys, that person in theory would remove 75% of warranty claims. Now, cut out the dealers, go factory direct, reduce Warranty issues, $40k is more than doable (my opinion). Easier said than done, for sure.

Thanks for the input Grouse.

Bearcat89 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>isu22andy wrote:</div>
Personally I have little use for a big tiller but the 40k price tag for 20 plus would likely raise some eyebrows.. I fish too many days where hiding behind that windshield sure is nice .

The next boat I want is the one I die with . Full aluminum , absolutely no wood or plastic . No wood transom . Wash down hoses. Aluminum Low slung dash to fit 2 12 inch graphs easily with large transducer board type material on it . Only one livewell , and tons of storage. Smaller casting deck . Rod storage. Factory tracks system. Full enclosure. Aluminum trailer. Mesh seats that dont rot or get hooks in them . Full and easy access to all bildge/ livewell / and fuel tanks/ wiring harness I could go on ….

Maybe its just me , but I want my purchase to be easily serviceable and last literally for my lifetime and my kids lifetime over creature comforts and sparkles.

I am 100 percent on the same page.

Love it, exactly what I’m going for (in glass). Anyone should be able to wrench on their boat. Can’t describe the feeling I get seeing 7¢/sq.ft carpet being glued into beautiful glass boats.

Just curious, if you look at say the 20’ warrior tiller. Keeping the hull and motor but removing carpet, compartments, and fancy seats. What else is there to get to a 50% reduced price point?

Nodakk wrote:

Just curious, if you look at say the 20’ warrior tiller. Keeping the hull and motor but removing carpet, compartments, and fancy seats. What else is there to get to a 50% reduced price point?

Short answer, alot. I’m not at liberty to speak to that though.

A third party builds Warrior boats and Warrior does rigging and hull/deck bonding. The third party doesn’t do it for free.

Regardless of glass or aluminum – if you can build a no nonsense 20’ tiller rated for a 150 (at minimum) for 40k I know you would have interest in northern mn.. including me. Livewell, lots of rod storage, needs to have a good solid dash for two+ graphs, dry storage, room for 3 trolling motor batteries plus 2 in back, no carpet.

Been going back and forth on a new 20’ Alaskan or used 20’ glass tiller for awhile now.

ganderpike wrote:

If a person were to design a boat NOT built for the NWT guys, that person in theory would remove 75% of warranty claims. Now, cut out the dealers, go factory direct, reduce Warranty issues, $40k is more than doable (my opinion). Easier said than done, for sure.

how to do it at that price point is your problem to solve, and that’s not what you asked about. you asked if it would generate interest.

comparison: a Lund Alaskan with 115 ProXS and Titan steering on a tandem-axle trailer is $53k before rigging.

so, yes, at $40k i’d definitely take a look but i’d bring a healthy amount of skepticism.

i’ve owned four different tiller boats (two under 20′ long and 2 over 20′ long, 3 of the 4 were fiberglass) and purchase decisions are all about needs and comparing options for value at the price point.

i don’t care what the number is on the motor, but i need the boat to get up on plane like right now when fully loaded and 3 people on board. that hull better be exceptionally well designed if you intend to do this with a 115hp motor. some of the best engineers in the world at Skeeter, Ranger, and Lund couldn’t do that very well without a 150hp or larger motor. in a 20’er i’m fishing big water and when the waves are up i can’t afford a start with a slowly lifting hull that needs a runway. and any motor at 115hp or larger will need some system to control steering torque.

i’m fine with a simple interior a la the Alaskan, but i need a generous rod locker that will hold at least 8’6″ rods and the storage needs to be dry from both the topside and the bilge side. side tanks should be wide enough to stand on with a little wiggle room.

good luck.

ganderpike wrote:

So I came to good ‘ol IDO to gauge market sentiment. If over 50 users chime in with good insight I’ll use a random name generator for a $100 Scheels card, or something.

unfortunately there’s not 50 active people here any more to respond, and this thread isn’t likely to get even 50 responses from a smaller set of folks. i’d look for a few well-informed responses.

but also consider that big tiller boats are about as niche of a market as you can find. maybe, maybe, if someone was in position to do bespoke boat building in response to a couple orders a year? again, that’s your problem to solve.

If you could do this even in a 19′ boat and say a 115hp, I think people would be interested

The Warrior V1890 is a pretty nice setup, but with a 90 hp and at 18′ it loses fishability for a 3rd person in a hurry. Warrior is also pretty proud of that setup and the price point isn’t worth it for me.

I wish there were more options out there for modularity. The firearms industry has leaned into modularity to extreme success. I wish boats and cars were more modular. Let me buy the boat and add modular storage, seating arrangements, etc. as I see fit. Hell you’ll probably end up making even more off me in the process!

I’m running a 209 Alumacraft and love the size. Running a 150 PRO XS Merc and that’s more than enough power. I’m trying to figure out how you’re going to come close to that price point. Trailer is $6k and motor is $15k. Half your budget is already gone and now just getting to the boat itself. If you can do it and still make money at the end of the day then I’m sure you won’t have a shortage of sales. Good luck!

buckybadger wrote:

If you could do this even in a 19′ boat and say a 115hp, I think people would be interested

20′ is important because that’s where USCG HP restrictions go out the window

I would like to add to this thread but I am not a tiller guy. That is for only one reason. When my back acts up I can’t operate one.

I think people would be happy to ditch the carpet to have something like an antifatigue mat instead. (this is not helping you reach your price point.)

9’6” rod storage.

Raise eyebrows – heck yes

A 115 hp most likely will feel like it is underpowered. Not many outboard motors available between 115 and 150. A 150 would be sufficient but you will always have some people that have to have the biggest motor available….

Based on todays prices of other brands a 20′ with a 150 hp close to $40,000 and you may see a bit of hesitation with people worried about the quality of the hull at that price point. Good hull and it would not take long to change the market.

Appreciate all the feedback guys!

A boat over 20′ dodges many USCG regs regarding neutral buoyancy, HP, among others. Under 20′ and there would be substantially more certs. & upfront costs.

It’s more than an idea, but far from fruition, so this is part of my risk eval. stage. So thank you to the everyday people of IDO for providing insight outside of the normal means.

Long rod storage, 4 bank battery compartments, a dash for more than 2 electronic units, customizable cable routing and integrated tracks. I think it is all doable.

20 percent of the fishing world in only the Midwest wanting a 20ft tiller.

All this talk about carpet and no frills they have not put carpet in a 20 foot fiberglass boat in 7-8 years. I can guarantee the stuff they put in now is way more expensive than carpet.

I also want a brand new truck for 25k. Can you make that happen too?

Sorry very skeptical on this.
Honestly not trying to be a prick.

Ran tillers my whole life before updated electronics an TM’s.