Vanes

  • splitshot
    Rosemount, MN
    Posts: 544
    #196671

    I’d like to hear opinions on short versus long vanes on hunting arrows. I am planning on buying a new set (12) of CX Maxium Hunters and am debating on going to short vanes this time. I am also going back to fixed 3-blade 100g Muzzy heads – after 6 seasons of mechanicals. I see in some of the archery hunting shows that some guy’s still use 4″ vanes and some use the shorter vanes for hunting. I’ve been a hard-core bowhunter for the last 27 years and have always shot 4″ vanes for hunting. I shoot a Mathiews LX at 65# with a drop-away rest. I’m not overly concerned about speed. I am however, looking for more downrange “smacking” power. I’ve never shot at anything (deer) over 28 yards out – and do not plan to (except for 3D). I’ve read many archery websites and posts on this and I have found no good answer one way or another. Should I stay with 4″, or should I go to 2-1/4″? What really concerns me is “arrow control” with the fixed blades. I’ve always had problems getting real tight groups with fixed broadheads (hence the chnage to mech.). Will a vane size/length change like this help with this problem?

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #32422

    I shoot 3″ feather vanes over shorter vanes because I want the arrow to turn as soon as it leaves the rest. I don’t know if shorter vanes also turn that soon but I know longer vanes do. I don’t think the longer vanes slow an arrow down much, maybe a couple feet a second at 100 yrds so I’ll take arrow accuracy that a longer vane produces over speed anyday, especially at 30 yrds and under shots. Your probably talking a few hundredths of a second diffrence at that yardage at most, maybe not even that much. I put a feather on a grain scale at the bowrange where I used to shoot league at and the scale didn’t reister. I asked Kelly the bowsmith there if the scale worked and he looked at what I was doing and said have you ever heard the saying as light as a feather, he said thats why it wasen’t weighing. The resistance created by a longer vane is minimual especially at 30 yrds and under, Id say even out to 50, in the few hundredths of a second again. I’ll take a longer vane over a shorter vane anyday because I know im atleast going to get the arrow to start to spin as soon as it comes off the rest. I made a shot at a buck onetime and when I released it was like slow motion came immediately into play. I seen the arrow turn 1 1/2 times at this 35 to 40 yrd shot and thats all. I figure if thats all an arrow turns in that distance I want it to start turning as soon as it leaves the rest, hence my likeing of a longer vane. Until I find a shorter vane has that much more over a longer vane im going to stay with longer vanes and sooner arrow spin for accuracy.

    tom_gursky
    Michigan's Upper Peninsula(Iron Mountain)
    Posts: 4751
    #32434

    Quote:


    I’d like to hear opinions on short versus long vanes on hunting arrows. I am planning on buying a new set (12) of CX Maxium Hunters and am debating on going to short vanes this time. I am also going back to fixed 3-blade 100g Muzzy heads – after 6 seasons of mechanicals. I see in some of the archery hunting shows that some guy’s still use 4″ vanes and some use the shorter vanes for hunting. I’ve been a hard-core bowhunter for the last 27 years and have always shot 4″ vanes for hunting. I shoot a Mathiews LX at 65# with a drop-away rest. I’m not overly concerned about speed. I am however, looking for more downrange “smacking” power. I’ve never shot at anything (deer) over 28 yards out – and do not plan to (except for 3D). I’ve read many archery websites and posts on this and I have found no good answer one way or another. Should I stay with 4″, or should I go to 2-1/4″? What really concerns me is “arrow control” with the fixed blades. I’ve always had problems getting real tight groups with fixed broadheads (hence the chnage to mech.). Will a vane size/length change like this help with this problem?


    Excellent question Splitshot!
    In the shop I get to both tune/test a lot of set ups and get feed back from guys I really respect for their bowhunting ability/experience…Here is my experience…based on the correct arrow spine out of a well tuned bow with a release…
    As far as 2″ Blazers or 2-3″ feathers…You have good arrow flight up to 100gr or 1 1/8″ diameter…Vanes in general less wind “drag” than feathers so 4″ vanes are only a slight improvement over Blazers and add about 20 more grains to the rear of the arrow shaft…affecting FOC.
    I have shot the same set up with good results…you will love the CX shafts.

    With 125gr…and over Broadheads I would strongly consider either 4″ NAP Quickspin Vanes, Helical 5″ feathers, or the new FOBs…Those need more “drag” to steer the big broadheads. My favorite Black Bear set up is a Monster Phoenix bow…60@29″ shooting 29″ NitroStnger Big Game tapered carbon shafts with big 125gr RazorCap broadheads…

    shown here…except this pic has a SuperSlam 2315 shaft with a Razorcap head

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #32449

    Tom besides the feathers possibly getting wet and damage from them hitting something is there any other pro’s that a plastic vane has over a feather. I see the length of the vane/feather is used to also steer the rear of the arrow with controlled drag by resistance. I can see getting the arrow to spin as soon as possible is more important on larger and heavier broadheads, verses light weight broadheads, for accuracy the whole length of arrow flight. The lighter broadheads don’t need a longer vane to steer and spin the shaft to be accurate like the heavier broadheads do,,,right? Does arrow shaft weight come into play too?

    robstenger
    Northern Twin Cities, MN
    Posts: 11374
    #32450

    I believe that vanes have a little less drag then feathers in which increases your arrow speed.

    tom_gursky
    Michigan's Upper Peninsula(Iron Mountain)
    Posts: 4751
    #32454

    At the SHOT show last year Easton had a display booth with a machine that tested arrow spin created by various fletchings…all straight fletched plastic vanes did not spin period…they were far too “slippery” as Rob mentioned. They also did nothing to stabilize a fixed broadhead because of no drag coefficient.

    The only vane that worked well with the test machine was a NAP Quickspin…due to the grooves and wing “kicker”. Feathers had great drag for all fixed broadheads…

    Rob its a wash on the speed…feathers are 6X lighter than equivalent length vanes and flatten against the shaft upon release….they are speed boss for the first 30-35yds…after that the vanes actually catch and pass the feathers as the “parachute” effect continually slows them down.

    Dan…I have never had a feather damaged during hunting, and no matter how disfigured/matted they get…a little steam from a teapot and they are like new…They are easily waterproofed by several methods. Vanes do take a “set” and are tough to repair…

    That being said…Vanes are way cheaper/easier to build arrows with and so the Industry promotes them…I use Quickspins, Blazers and feathers depending upon the application…The best way to see how they are working is shooting your broadheads about 60yds on a calm day.

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #32468

    I know what your saying Tom. When I used to shoot league I occasionally hit another arrow while shooing single spots and during hunters league while trying to place two arrows side by side on paper target animals in the highest scoring number ring for that target, I eventually went to a 5 spot target. Occasionally Id hit the feathers of my first arrow and knock some of the vane out or bend it. when shooting hunters league it got to be where you’d try to shoot and put your second arrow close to the first but far enough away as not to damage it, that was a challange too, all the targets were two arrows a piece then tally the score of the rings you put your arrow in. If they were too badly damaged I replaced the feather with my left twist helical cast fletching tool that sits on a table or bench.

    The (few) times I may have shot a wet feather I took my finger and made sure it was shaped so it would fly right, I don’t think I ever had any problems. I’ve never heard about feathers folding back during the first 30 yrds and a vaned arrow catching up to it, I believe it, good information. Will a plastic vane fit any situation or is it better to shoot feathers in some, or is it all a matter of personal choice.

    I have to insert this too…for you guys that look for something to do and wouldn’t mind fletching your own arrows, it not hard to do. Heres a couple hints on what to do. I scrape off the old vane or feather and the glue that holds it to the arrow. Buy yourself a good fletching tool by spending a little money, around the $35 to $50 mark for a single arrow tool, also choose if you want a right or left helical spin on your arrow but it dosen’t matter, this is personal choice. Look at the feather to see if it will lay true on the arrow shaft like any kinks etc., Sometimes when they split the center of a feather the center isn’t always split right but most the time they are. One side of the feather after the split will be a right and the other is a left. When you buy the package they will come left or right helical and both come from the same feather by spliting it right down the middle. After you’ve looked to see if it was split right put it in the fletching too and alighn it along side the arrow shaft. If it lays in full contact along the shaft then its ok to glue it, if not adjust the vice so it does, thats easy and anyone can do it. Pull the clamp off the base and put an ample amount of glue on the base of the vane while in the clamp. Then carefully put the clamp back on the base then press the clamp to the arrow trying to make sure it will make center contact, it should if it was prealighned. After the clamp with the vane in it is pressed against the arrow shaft then just let it dry. Heres a hint I do, after the arrows completely fletched I put a small drop of fletchtight glue on the front and back of the feather so they don’t peel back and don’t come loose. When putting the glue on the base of the vane put an ample amount but not too much, you’ll be able to tell how much after you’ve done a few. Fletching arrows is alot of fun and a great way to pass time. It takes about 4 hrs to do 6 arrows and watch tv at the same time with a single arrow fletching tool.

    splitshot
    Rosemount, MN
    Posts: 544
    #32469

    Over the years, I’ve shot both feathers and vanes in target and hunting arrows. I’ve shot aluminum, fiberglass and carbon arrows – of many brands. They all have their pro’s and con’s. Now I shoot carbons with vanes. As I stated, my personal limit on live animal shots is about 30 yards, but I’d prefer shorter distances and have actually shot most animals at 8-15 yards out. That’s another reason I shoot vanes, I feel do not need to depend on the spinning of the arrow (as feathers would normally do) at these short ranges. Again, at short ranges, speed is also not an issue to me. 207,… 215,… 230 fps. Who cares. The animal will not blink in the time it takes for the arrow to hit it. If within these parameters, I believe downrange kinetic energy is what a hunter should really be concerned with. I want to always be sure that my arrow will blow right through whatever it hits. That is why I’m also going with a weight-forward arrow too. I think if I was trying for longer shots, or shooting target/3D for tournament scores, I might think of shortening my vanes and looking for some spin to help carry the arrow. I appreciate the advice, but at this point I think I’ve convinced myself to stay with 4″ vanes. ….Now it’s off to paper-tune.
    Thanks.
    Splitshot

    splitshot
    Rosemount, MN
    Posts: 544
    #32470

    Oh yeah,…Tom. I am going to look at those 4″ NAP Quickspins. Thanks for the pointer.
    Splitshot

    robstenger
    Northern Twin Cities, MN
    Posts: 11374
    #32473

    Thanks Tom.

    Tom, I think in your comparison above you talked about “straight” Vanes. What about offset/angled (helical) style vanes?? This was my 2nd year with shooting 4″ NAP quick spins and I really beleive these have tightened up my groups especially long range.

    ken67
    Posts: 36
    #6764

    i use 3 inchers currently but would like to try using 2 inchers. i am really trying to figure out which one spins and flies better.

    vinnydelpino
    Up Nort
    Posts: 32
    #6812

    Tom G. that bow looks awesome. What are you getting for speed out of that rocket?

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