Someone please lock this thing down so we don’t have to read this minutiae anymore. Lets just stop replying to Phil’s comments (He has not said anything new since around page 2 of this thread…) and maybe he’ll drift off back into never never land…RR
Someone please lock this thing down so we don’t have to read this minutiae anymore. Lets just stop replying to Phil’s comments (He has not said anything new since around page 2 of this thread…) and maybe he’ll drift off back into never never land…RR
Why? He has a very valid point. One that seems to be falling on deaf ears.
Its so easy to point a finger at the DNR for mismanaging, but while that one finger is pointed their direction there are 3 more pointing back at you.
Anglers certainly do have a role and that is what he has been saying. Putting ALL of the blame on the DNR is as bad as putting NONE of the blame on the anglers.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>roosterrouster wrote:</div>
Someone please lock this thing down so we don’t have to read this minutiae anymore. Lets just stop replying to Phil’s comments (He has not said anything new since around page 2 of this thread…) and maybe he’ll drift off back into never never land…RR
Why? He has a very valid point. One that seems to be falling on deaf ears.
Its so easy to point a finger at the DNR for mismanaging, but while that one finger is pointed their direction there are 3 more pointing back at you.
Anglers certainly do have a role and that is what he has been saying. Putting ALL of the blame on the DNR is as bad as putting NONE of the blame on the anglers.
Um last time I checked the DNR sets the slot and the limits according to what THEY think the lake can allow. What is the angler doing wrong on following those slots n limits? Why should an angler feel shame or guilt in following the rules that the DNR sets forth? The DNR set these things and motion thus their fault…
It’s actually the logging industry’s fault, if they wouldn’t have cut all the available wood up there the resorts would have never started and the DNR wouldn’t have needed to manage the lake.
This thread is AWESOME!! A few more pages and it could rival the topic of a fly that landed on a deck chair at Everts Resort!!!
I might not be the sharpest bulb in the shed, but here’s my takeaway from this thread:
-Is the Mille Lacs tourism and fishing business hurting? Yes
-Do we all want to help fix the problem? Yes
-Is this the fault of the tribes? yes
-Is this the fault of the DNR? Yes
-Is this the fault of anglers? Yes
-Is this the logging industries fault? Yes, I learned something new today. 
-Am I disappointed in some of my fellow anglers who resort to name calling and cyber-bullying? YES
-Will I get shamed for this post? Probably…
-Do I want some of those steak bites? HELL YES
It’s OK to have opposing views, let’s just be big boys and girls and have a reasonable argument. (I’m not referring to any side of the argument in particular…)
Thanks CaptainMusky, by your screen name I’m assuming you are a musky fishermen. Which makes sense why you would agree with me, musky fishermen on the whole take much more care and personal responsibility of their target fish.
(He has not said anything new since around page 2 of this thread…)
What a coincidence, because you have done a great job of not addressing any of my points or questions since page 2!
Denial is a hell of a drug eh Roostie? You’re welcome to leave this thread if the conversation doesn’t jive with you, but just remember that YOU are a part of the problem on the way out.
License plate recommendation for ya
gotmyne.jpg
Hey guys is there where I pour the gasoline?! 
Is it the DNR’s fault for setting the limit or the anglers fault for taking the limit? What if it’s a bit of both in that the DNR is pressured to set the limit as high as possible due to angler/business expectations? Would we have these problems if the “default” limit was 2 instead of 6? Maybe instead of needing special regulations to cut back on harvest there could be bonus regulations that increase the harvest temporarily as needed. There wouldn’t be a negative impact to businesses on lakes with currently highly restrictive regulations because they would be the same everywhere.
:stirpot:
It’s actually the waters fault… if the water wasn’t there we wouldn’t be in this situation and have Phil and rooster arguing like two little babys over the Internet. Hell, why don’t both of you meet at the Mcdonalds in Garrison and share a happy meal. Wait…. scratch that.. you will fight over who gets the toy. Carry on!
Simply placing blame on who’s responsible is a way to divert blame from themselves.
Our own actions or lack there of is the true root of the issue. Who we vote for, how we speak of the issue, what we teach others, how we teach others is going to have the greatest long term impact on this lake.
I know that’s a lot of words for not really saying anything, but so is most of this thread.
Thanks to Will for bringing an intelligent and open minded point of view on this subject. It’s amazing how much his point of view is ignored.
In my opinion, our attitudes needs to change to get this lake back to something special.
It’s actually the waters fault… if the water wasn’t there we wouldn’t be in this situation and have Phil and rooster arguing like two little babys over the Internet. Hell, why don’t both of you meet at the Mcdonalds in Garrison and share a happy meal. Wait…. scratch that.. you will fight over who gets the toy. Carry on!
Good Point! I’m out! Just go back to Will’s graph’s Philticklemeelmo! …RR
Dude, Reef, don’t you know there’s no room for logic or reasonable questions here? It’s like totally unfathomable for someone to come in here and say ‘hey, maybe anglers should be held responsible too’.
Dinger, dude, your post was seriously hilarious, like next level funny. Mind if I call you King ZINGER instead? A++ post man.
Agreed Biggill. I provided what I thought was a reasonable response to Will’s informative post. Which others decided to….well not responded reasonably to.
I’d love to hear Will’s response as I’m sure he’d actually take the time to read and comprehend.
Good Point! I’m out! Just go back to Will’s graph’s Philticklemeelmo!
Haha you mean the graph I’ve been talking about since he posted it?
I take back my restaurant recommendation Rooster, they have a menu at that place without pictures. That’s a thing with words on it. You read the words to find out what food they have, then you tell…nevermind, this is going to go way over your head.
When members start insulting,mocking and demeaning other members instead of discussing…… it’s time to lock things up………
DO NOT SHUT THIS THREAD DOWN!
I just got off work, I got my case of Coronas chillin and a bag of pretzels.
I told my wife not to bother me this weekend as I have an important thread on IDO to monitor.
OK – Post on.
When members start insulting,mocking and demeaning other members instead of discussing…… it’s time to lock things up………
So your saying they could save some time and lock up every thread as soon as “Mille Lacs” is in it?
has this thread gone viral yet?
I didn’t read the whole thread, but pretty good fun.
Did anyone mention the advent of chartplotters and whatnot? GPS? I’d like to see a graph of harvest overlaid with a graph of the advent of every Joe in the cities getting GPS on his rig. Just sayin’.
DO NOT SHUT THIS THREAD DOWN!
I just got off work, I got my case of Coronas chillin and a bag of pretzels.
I told my wife not to bother me this weekend as I have an important thread on IDO to monitor.OK – Post on.
x 100
We’re hanging out not too far from you thinking the same thing!
Got home and enjoyed a couple Red Bull Grey Gooses and just cracked my second Blue Moon. The fire is going good in the driveway and the Dodgers and Nats are on the tube in the garage. The laptop is on and a refresh every hour is providing some good entertainment. I think we’re going to start a drinking game according to what happens next. 
I will jump in and join the party from here,Ive got a texas fifth of jack,a six pack of pepsi,and a big bag of popcorn.
carry on 
Wayyyyyy back in the early part of this thread Fellegy posted before he bowed out. Anybody who truly has a interest in Mille Lacs drop him a PM he can send you documentation of whats happened there from the time the DNR biologist (Dick Sternberg) told the DNR what the results of the slot would be. He will be glad to address anyone who seriously has a interest. However if you just wanna fight save your time.
It’s true, not one group or agency is entirely responsible. There are major issues to be addressed before any remedy proposed thus far will work.
Carry on, this is good for a laugh if nothing else.
I should be able to get back into conversation tomorrow, started the cocktails and feeling to good to deal with Phil and his crap for now. Save these for when I’m working.
Holy Crap I can’t believe what this thread has turned into. I don’t know what Mr Fellegy’s problem is with my original post. He read much more into it than I could have imagined. My point was nothing more than I am surprised that more resorts aren’t trying to take advantage of the few guys that are still fishing on the lake after the walleye closing, but they are a small fraction compared to the walleye fishing population regularly fish the lake. Obviously someone had pee’d in his cornflakes that day and he needed to jump on something to make his point. I respect his passion, but people calm the heck down.
All I can say is all you resort/fishing marketing geniuses should be lined up to buy into the Lake Mille Lacs tourism industry. Obviously, it would be a GREAT investment–easy money!! Banks will line up to finance you….LOL
Yep…this posting so fitting ( from a “fire watcher”) “I am sure there are a record number of boats targeting bass this year, but I would guess the on water hours with bass/muskie vs. walleye hours are minimal. One would think that resorts would at least try to cater to alternative potential customers.”–being the Bass and <strong class=”ido-tag-strong”>Muskie thing has been kept a secret all these years by all the stupid/lazy Lake Mille Lacs resorts and guides.
Yep…kick’em when they’re down. GENIUS! In fact, call them and tell them that directly!! Or hide behind some phony name on the internet…instead of calling or asking them directly for an honest fishing report? LOL Amazing–GENIUS in fact!!
“Chubby” LOL LOL LOL!!!!!!
how about we all head to the Y Club and finish this conversation over a beer and some steak bites
Why yes! I might choose the walleye finger basket. The Y also has a wonderful baked stuffed walleye with shrimp crab puree stuffing and smothered in a delicious sauce over a bed of wild rice.
Point being as crappie suggests is that all being in person would change the dynamics of this discussion more respectful.
I would not intentionally insult or disrespect anyone beyond what I would take myself. I am just a fat goofy old man anyway. 
Other forums occasionally have get-together events for members to meet the real persons with their real names and the hidden personalities change! Just a thought, perhaps I’ll start another thread suggesting a GTG this winter for an ice fishing event?
Sounds like most are now imbibing in Friday night happy hour…stay tuned!
It’s impossible to keep track of all that going on in this thread but to quickly respond to a few of Phil’s questions…
On the original harvest data chart I included a vertical dotted line to represent the switch to a “kill” slot management system in 1998 which is when I believe the treaty management officially went into effect. The horizontal lines to the right and left of the vertical line represent the averages of all the harvest values pre and post treaty. I feel using the average over a longer period (ie. larger sample size) most accurately represent the affects of the “harvest slot” pre and post slot. I personally think that the impact of the slot is much larger impact than the nets but a very strong circumstantial case could be made that netting has more of an impact than I give it credit based on the extremely strong year class in 2013 when ice out allowed for basically zero netting.
To your point that there are years of extremely high harvest followed by years of low harvest, of course there will be years of fluctuation. It isn’t quite as simple as overharvest however, what is actually very logical is that the years with high harvest are almost always representative of a low baitfish population causing the fish to be hungrier than usual.. Thus the fish are also skinny and stressed those years which typically means in addition to harvest many fish die off resulting usually a rapid correction of the predator to baitfish ratio causing the fishing to be poor then next year with more bait and fewer fish. It may seem counter-intuitive but the truth is that (as long as the spawning biomass does not drop below critical levels) harvesting more fish when the baitfish biomass is low is actually beneficial to the long term health of the fishery and those years of high harvest were a more natural way of correcting baitfish shortages.
I do agree with you that since the treaty has been in place overharvest was an issue but mostly because only a small subset of the overall population was allowed to be harvested therefore perpetuating a population imbalance… Where we may have to disagree is that I feel like simply changing the management approach could have fixed the issue. (versus expecting angler behavior to change)
Will
I concur Will. Having been a land owner up there and fishing Mille Lacs since 1991… it is what some people (and Sternberg at the forefront) have been predicting for decades. IMHO, blaming anglers, would be like ticketing a speeder doing 55 mph, in a 55 mph zone ???:???: Now do anglers hurt the lake by following the imposed laws and regulations… absolutely. Case in point… and this has happened to me MANY times over the last 2 decades… We go fishing and god forbid, want to catch some to eat. Every year, this scenario has became worse and worse and worse. In the early 90’s, to catch 4 “eaters” you would catch 4 or 5 fish and the livewell would be good. Slot tightens, in the late 90’s, you would have to catch maybe 7 or 8 for the 4 keepers. By the 2000’s , the slot was sliding and tightening about every year… but always we were targeting the 16-18″ fish…. this was throwing up red flags around the lake… but it continued. During the 2000’s you could catch BIG walleye, like crazy. We would catch the same fish 2 or 3 times, with lot’s oh guthooked fish and cut lines coming from their mouths, they were starving. At this time you waould have to catch 20-25 fish to get the coveted 4 eaters. By the time the 2010’s rolled around, well the limit was dropped, the slot was tightened even more… keeping the 16-18″ fish as the target (there were none of these left) and it would take a person catching and releasing 30+ walleyes, to try to catch now, 2 keepers. If someone actually fished the lake for any amount, from the time the netting and the treaty management started, they would see a pattern and chain of events pretty easily. This is why I believe Steve gets so upset and is so passionate about the issues up there… he seen what this lake is capable of. I realize, it is hard for some to see this from a keyboard 25+ years later.
Been fishing this body of water since 1992. Can remember the ups and downs as strong year classes made their way through. The population of walleyes cycle not only because of harvest, but also spawning successfully. Also remember the implementation of the slots, every year we held our breath for the regulations to be released. We kept enough for a big fish fry at camp, some to bring home if we were lucky. Can also remember hearing about and seeing carcasses of too big to keep walleyes in the weeds, heard of many people double dipping. Watched a couple old guys who lived on the lake go in and out from their dock several times one night. Motor right back to the rock pile, red bobber lights going under, nets in the water, hooting and hollering, repeated many times, boat goes into shore, comes back 20 minutes later. We motored up and asked how they were doing, played stupid like we didn’t know the slot size and limit. Asked what they thought of the slot, a few prime swear words a few references to the Natives and their nets, and that they are entitled to their walleyes. We reported that incident as the DNR guy was dumping out our coolers and tearing apart our camper and tent, while his partner held his flashlight in our faces assuming that we were criminals. Not sure how or even if they followed up on our tip, but I have heard from a few others that same story. Gets old. I think it’s (and maybe stereotypical) the older generation who felt that everything caught was kept. The younger a person is, the more they have been exposed to ethical harvesting, and catching and releasing is more common and some day might be the norm. As I get back to the original poster and what needs to happen to survive? You have to differentiate yourself from the others. Provide a lasting impression. Since the history of the lake has lived off of walleye, catching, keeping, and repeating…it’s going to be tough to change that mindset. The DNR also needs to change. Forcing folks to target the same size walleyes which the netters also target is a sure fire recipe for failure. Hopefully something can work, want to be able to put a couple in the live well over opening weekend, go back to the family property and enjoy a good meal, couple drinks, a cozy bonfire, and all those stories about the “old days”
Just posting so this stays on the first page…Hi Phil!
You still on my lawn. I’m headed to the gun case.
The topic ‘An FYI for Mille Lacs resort owners’ is closed to new replies.
