Decline in trout anglers

This first attachment shows 26 years of Wisconsin trout stamp sales data. Central office fish folks had the nerve to count every Patron Card buyer as one trout angler which is FRAUD. Only a small percentage of PC buyers are trout anglers. Plus TU folks buy multiple stamps to support the program.

In the 1980s Wisconsin had almost 200,000 trout anglers. The low point was 1991 when special regulations were implimented back in 1990. An the numbers have never come back since. I do not have data for Minnesota but do believe if I did it would show the same thing.

The second attachment is an example of the Big Green River showing trout numbers at ~100/mile back in the 1960s – 1980s and then jumping up to ~3000/mile+ in the 1990s – present. I could give you a ton of examples. If you have fished trout streams recently you might even think we have a problem.

Aside from record trout numbers and a big angler decline there have been other changes. Early on locals fished and they were primarily bait and spin anglers. Now fly anglers predominate. There have been several studies that show total trout harvest is now less than 10%.

In summary, the trout fishing in the Midwest is the best it has ever been. Tons of trout, nobody fishing, and those that are fishing are mainly fly anglers who practice catch and release.

Don’t be afraid to keep a few trout. There are some rivers that actually could use harvest — Upper Kinni, Coon Valley. High trout populations make them stunted.

When I moved to WI in the late 1990s, I fished trout on the fly religiously. 3-4 times a week. Fished the early C&R season all the way through to the close of the season in September. Mourned the passing of the season annually, tied my own flies to pass the cold months, and joined TU.

That was then.

Several things drove me from trout into the arms of walleye fishing.

1. Access. Getting access to key pieces of water is getting tricky for the recreational angler that can’t invest the time necessary to visit with individual landowners. I had a run-in on an opening day in the early 2000s in which I accessed the stream perfectly legally (at a bridge), kept my feet wet the entire time, yet had to deal with this person shouting at me the entire time about how I was fishing for HIS trout that HE had to pay HIS taxes for. I don’t need that kind of frustration.

2. Ticks. I grew tired of picking ticks off of myself after trudging through the underbrush to get to/from streams. Lymes disease and other tick-borne illnesses are too high a price to pay for 9″ brookies and 11″ browns.

3. Community. Trout anglers, IMHO, are a secretive bunch…right or wrong. The best holes, times, and presentations are guarded secrets accessed only through blood oaths and blindfolds. At some point, if trout fishing is going to gain ground in MN and WI, trout anglers are going to have to open their arms to welcome new anglers and break down the barriers that prevent new trout-sters from getting involved.

Jason I appreciate you taking the time to write, your input valued. I’ll address the three great points you make.

1. Access. Fishing MN, most stick to the maps. In MN, it is easy to ID access because the easements are marked in gray on the MN DNR trout maps:

MN Trout Stream One can understand the landowner’s perspective however, especially in WI where land taxes are even higher. There are some streams like Vermillion that are more heavily guarded for good reason. Lots of folks won’t go the extra mile these days to ID a landowner and call ahead. In this electronic age it is easy and fun. Getting to know the landowners this summer has been a blast. I figure out what county the steam is in, then search for that county web site. Each site usually has specific GIS maps that even have aerial photos built in, zoom in and out etc. Then you have the landowner’s name and address. In most cases you can look up on whitepages on the web get a # and call. Some cases I write letters or stop over next time if I am in the area at a decent hour. Don’t go showing up suited up early am ringing doorbells.

2. Ticks suck. They are mainly in fields. If I’m fishing spring creeks in the woods I don’t run into them that often. Because trout streams don’t have a lot of standing water I don’t even wear bug spray. Vermillion fields were crazy this summer though. I got like a dozen ticks off me in less than a half hour back in June.

3. Trout anglers are terrible at sharing, I agree. Yet, I’m not going to give a newbie my GPS coordinates to where I catch the 20″+ browns right off the bat. I send them to Trout Run, Whitewater, Hay Creek, Coon Valley. Starter places. Lots of board don’t even all you to share stream names. Go to WISFLY and if you type in “Rush” River the program automatically changes your post to “Downstream Flowing” River. Gain some trust with people on board and i think the trading is done on PMs or email.

I’ll second what Jason has to say. Access is a big issue and I’ll admit I don’t understand how it works. I do know that every copy of the hunting rules and the fishing rules I’ve gotten for years now has a big section spelling out the trespassing laws. You can see the conflict here. We’ve all been schooled to obey the trespass laws; but then we can supposedly have access to private land along a Trout stream. Now add in some head banging over land access with locals during my deer hunting days and I’m really unsure about what I can do. I have many incident where locals tried to run me off land I was legally accessing. I don’t want to encounter the same thing with a fly rod in my hand. Compare this situation to fishing Lakes. I know I can go to a **public** access and fish on the public lake without a problem. It’s pretty easy.

I’ve done a little Trout fishing this summer but for the most part I’ve stayed in State Parks or State Forest areas. The downside of this strategy is that there aren’t many fish to be caught. For example, try fishing the public park land access on the Vermillion. It’s pretty country and it’s moving water; there just aren’t many Trout in there. I don’t know any land owners so I’ve got no access to the private land.

There’s no doubt about it, you have to put in a lot of work to get on some good Trout fishing. Scouting, research, and getting to know people are all part of it. I’ve just barely scratched the surface and have no idea where to go so I’m not going to complain about my success (or lack of success). Is it worth the hassle to find good Trout fishing? That’s the question and it looks like more people are saying no.

Rootski

Quote:

---

3. Community. Trout anglers, IMHO, are a secretive bunch…right or wrong. The best holes, times, and presentations are guarded secrets accessed only through blood oaths and blindfolds. At some point, if trout fishing is going to gain ground in MN and WI, trout anglers are going to have to open their arms to welcome new anglers and break down the barriers that prevent new trout-sters from getting involved.

---

I would have to agree with this. Basically I learned from books and my own failures. I fly-fish unless I take my boys out. Very few anglers will even mention what stream they where fishing. With the numbers of trout per mile of stream being extremely high how is someone going to “Catch Them All”? Most of the streams cover miles how am I going to know exactly where you where fishing? These forums are suppose to be for sharing knowledge and getting more folks out into the outdoors enjoying the sport we all love to help support the fisheries for future anglers yet we want to be tight lipped on helping out newbies. The parks are highly pressured that is why most of us do not fish them. Yes the can pick up a trout map and find streams but don’t we want to create fishing addicts not frustrate folks? The maps are great to start with but need a lot of help marking the back roads better. I am not saying give everyone the secret hole but we can all throw a bone once in awhile.

I forgot to mention WI has what ten different colored streams that relate to different regs on each stream? I find that very easy to understand What ever happen to K.I.S.S.? (keep it simple stupid) That might have some impacts on numbers

I have to agree with the high numbers of trout and low number of anglers. I fish Badger Creek in Houston, MN (yes, I said it) with spinners and small hair jigs. While the size of the trout is not very big, the numbers are the highest I’ve seen. The thing that amazes me is the lack of fisherman. There is a great stetch of creek that nobody touches; I could barely get through the tall grass, let alone fish it. Ten years ago there were trails from people in the same spot. There is easy access to all of this creek. There are even ladders built over the fences in the parts that are pastured.

Good post! We stayed at Beaver Creek Park twice this summer. Badger was on my list but I never got to it. I think many trout fisherman stick to the tried and true versus exploring. Trout Run, Whitewater, Hay Creek. I don’t even fish the Rush much anymore. Too crowded. So many untouched waters near these that have better fishing! At least when I’m spinning, I don’t want to fish water that somebody has already fished.

During WI pre-season I ran into a father and son fishing the Rush. I also ran into a couple of locals fishing Sheck’s Mill, main branch Beaver. Other than that, I have not run into any other fisherman the entire season.

If you like solitude and tremendous trout fishing, try off the beaten path. Southwestern WI trout streams are even more abundant and tremendous with even less fisherman than the MN side. Honestly the fishing has been so good I cannot justify another road trip to Montana, or even the Black Hills for that matter.

Quote:

---

If you like solitude and tremendous trout fishing, try off the beaten path. Southwestern WI trout streams

---

Just out of curiosity, after you pay for a Wisconsin non-resident license and the necessary trout stamp(s), how much money are you talking about?

Thanks!

Rootski

Rootski for non-resident WI fishing license it is $50 plus $10 for the trout stamp. Seems steep but consider awesome fishing one hour from TCs versus two hours to southeast. So you save on gas. That pays for itself there. Hatchery raised rainbow trout sells for $10/lb at the store. Out of WI I harvest wild browns and Brooks that taste way better. For me $60 to fish WI easily pays for itself. Plus there are way more awesome streams that I always have to myself.

im not opposed to helping out a rookie. what im using bait/lures/lure colors that sort of thing. there is no way im ever going to give specific spots up.

i made that mistake before and a couple of my favorite spots have been over fished the past couple of years. tell one or two people they tell one or two people they tell one or two people…. you get the point.

ill give up a stream name if its not a small stream that could easily be over harvested by one person over the course of the season. there maybe a few streams out there with plenty of trout in them. however, there are plenty of rookies out there that if you would put them on a hot spot and they catch even an 18″ trout they keep it for the wall or to show off to friends and family. these trout streams are way to fragile for us “hardcore” trout fisherman to let that happen.

in my opinion even the maps make it way too easy to find good spots. just look on the maps for streams that have the longest distance between access points walk till the footprints stop and bingo good fishing. there are also plenty of deep holes under bridges that get pounded so much that the fish wont even look at your presentation. some of these places hold monsters. try fishing them in the cover of darkness it may lead to a fish of a life time.

Fanatic

I’m with you, fanatic. I only share locations with people that I can trust to have a good conservation ethic and who can keep their mouths shut. Flapping your mouth to the masses on the internet only leads to degraded fisheries, especially when you are talking about a pretty limited resource.

I think trout fishermen are naturally secretive because when it comes to the big fish that many of us are after, it’s a low numbers game. How many 20-inch stream trout do you catch in a year, even if you fish a lot?

Fishing for stream trout also is a pretty solitary activity. Sure, you might go with a buddy, but when you get to the stream you will part ways. It’s not a group activity, unless you enjoy catching no fish.

Any decrease in the number of trout anglers probably reflects a declining interest in outdoor activities in general, as fewer young people are getting into hunting and fishing. Lots of distractions out there. Anything that takes skill or effort to learn (fishing small streams requires both)is bypassed by a generation that wants immediate gratification.

I would add that a decrease in the overall physical fitness and tolerance of discomfort of Americans also comes into play. Nimbly sneeking along a stream at night while getting bitten by mosquitoes takes some grit, as does sitting in a deer-stand for hours in sub-zero cold.

Lastly, most Americans live in big cities. Just getting the hell out of Dodge on a Friday night is a nightmare in itself. No wonder there are fewer folks on the water.

you left out what is mine is mine and what is yours is mine!!!

I shared this before on a previous post. Data from Trout Unlimited. It is pretty sad that less than 3% of trout anglers are under the age of 20. That is our future. Record high numbers of trout. Record low numbers of anglers. Harvest less than 10%. Now our next generation is even less interested in trout fishing. Why do we need to be so heavily guarded with our spots? I’m not suggesting we post maps on the web of exact locations. But why not throw out more bones. Name a few rivers and locations? Promote the sport! That’s what I’m here for. Other sites don’t even let you name streams. So my next door neighbor took my advice and took his kids to spots I though would guarantee fish. They spent all day at it and did not catch one single trout. They saw a TON of trout and had fun looking at them but no luck. I gave exact locations on google terrain maps in email and they still had no luck. Now if I dished out my spot where I caught five 20″+ trout this summer, odds are a rookie is not going catch them. I’m not suggesting giving your best spots out, but please consider sharing more spots to promote the sport to newcomers.

The bone is already out there in the form of the fine publications the DNR has issued during the past few years. There are maps, species info, public land and easement info…what more could you want? I’ve walked into many of those streams and caught fish almost every time.

It is just unbelievable! You are right the info is out there in the forms of maps. You stated earlier that people are to lazy to fish trout streams so why be so worried if you post where you fished. There have been a lot of nice fish posted on here caught on vermilion. If I were to hop in the car and head up there the odds would still be against to find the exact locations where any of those fish were caught. On average a 20″+ fish is going to travel more than 1mi in a night. How many miles does the water run? SO I would need a lot of luck to catch one of Scudly’s fish. According to the DNR the trout fisheries are thriving. I can give you the exact location of where I caught a 20+ fish but that does not mean you will catch it for many reasons 1) the fish has to be there 2)are the conditions right 3)do you have the right presentation 4) did you approach without spooking the fish.
The mentality of many trout fisherman is just disgracing. Why do many (not all) come across as stuck up? This is as bad as the debate over bait and lures/flies! Bottom line is we are just borrowing the land for a short period of time. This is a fishing forum it is hopefully designed and intended to help people become good stewards of our natural resources. Yet again only the trouters are to special to mention where they had luck. Go in any other subspecies section on this site they tell you color, size, depth, speed, location, etc… of where they had luck!! No they do not give exact GPS coordinates but they might as well. A trouter cant mention a stream name because everyone is going to swoop in and take all their trout!! Come on what a joke!! People are going to do what they want but why not help each other out!! I think this is part of the reason I have shied away from this site for awhile. I am done with my rant for now hopefully it made some sense!!

I certainly don’t want to come across as stuck up, because I know that plenty of people out there, including some “trouters”, are. I’ve shared a lot of information with folks, especially those taking kids, and have received some in return. I wrote my comments last night with a couple of drinks under the belt, and may have sounded a bit harsh, but I think they are at least on the right track.

Trout streams are a bit different than most other fisheries because there are WAY fewer of them than warmwater streams and lakes, and because most are small. Ever try to fish a small stream with a group of people? No one catches many fish.

I’ve always been leery about spreading too much info about specific fishing spots on the internet for obvious reasons. I had a similar discussion with a guy from out-of-state recently — he couldn’t see why I didn’t share specifics, but when the topic turned to turkey hunting, he admitted that he would NEVER share his turkey haven.

I believe the decline can be attributed to the change in regulations. At one time one stream outside our town had three different regulations in about a mile stretch. Instead of taking a chance that they might accidently break one of the regs they just walked away from trout fishing IMO.

They have simplified the rules somewhat in recent years but there still to complex in my opinion. Access to most steams in our area is really quite easy but there still is very few trout fisherman.

Yeah, the regs can be a bit complex and confusing at times, but it has gotten that way for many species, as well as for hunting. In terms of fishing, fisheries managers are trying to maximize the potential of specific streams and lakes.

I fish out west once in a while. The regs are pretty complex there too, if not more so. Better keep a copy of the current regs handy.

So special regulations implemented in 1990, the low point was 1991, and numbers have yet to come back. Coincidence? Maybe. I also though “A River Runs Through It” which came out in 1992 really boosted fly fishing. If that is rhe case, the number of new fly anglers could not even offset the number of bait and spin anglers lost? I was under the
impression that fly shops were booming in the mid to late 90’s?

Winkels I agree with you completely about the secretive nature of us trout fisherman however, many of us are fishing private land and thus cannot give exact location just simply due to landowners requests. Believe me if I started carrying a GPS unit I could give 10-20 good holes, stumps, or eddys that have created nice fish for me in the past that are all on state land. But as to alot of the secret nature is the fact that some landowners are well kind of dinks about “their” stream and that is one of the factors of the decline in trout fisherman. especially in the Marine on St Croix area. they will you right off

Trout Brook in miesville is one of the prime examples of a small stream being way over fished. 5 years ago before it was listed in the MN trout stream book I used to have very good success there. Caught several wild Brookies in the 10-12″ range every time i went out and maybe even get into a 14-18″ brown from time to time. Over the past couple years I have notice a tremendous decline in quality fish and this year was absolutely terrible. Fished it twice and didnt catch a single fish over 8″. And at all the really nice pools caught nothing but knew fish had been caught there from evidence. (empty crawler/worm containers and “Y” branches for rod holding) I dont know who is to blame for this but over harvesting most certainly has been occuring down there and conservation skills have not been used at all.

Jon you cite Trout Brook as an example of over harvest. This could be the case. However do you notice trout streams fluctuate quite a bit from year to year? A drought year, a big spring flood year etc. Sometimes trout decline and sometimes fluorish, even taking man out of the equation. I have not fished trout brook, only the mouth. However I thought a local told me it used to have beaver
dams that created bigger pools allowing the brookies to get big, that are now gone. It was either Trout Brook, or Pine. Either way, both streams seem very small and incapable of producing big trout? You have a point though. Heavy pressure can wipe out a stream trout numbers quickly. I heard Cold Spring by Zumbro Falls got pounded too hard by a certain ethnic group known to catch and keep all as they do in their home country.

Having Jon offer his hot spots on the Vermillion would be bad news. There would be droves of fisherman, in a heartbeat. Even c&r, some would not make it. Likewise I am not allowed to share a few spots due to landowner request. If I attract a crowd, my privileges will be revoked.

Scudly, you just eloquently described why so many trout anglers don’t share their spots. Thanks, buddy!

Gordon I think Jon and I are not typical trout anglers. We target trophy browns on low numbers streams, generally on private land. I have no problem sharing tons of other great streams that have an abundance of average sized trout, that CAN support extra fishing pressure. Maybe you believe if I told folks rhe upper Kinni has 12,000 per mile, will folks come in droves and limit out every time they visit? In this case I certainly hope so.

Quote:

---

Likewise I am not allowed to share a few spots due to landowner request. If I attract a crowd, my privileges will be revoked.

---

And that is the crux of the whole problem.

We can talk all day about catching Walleyes on Pool 2 or Bass on a small Metro Lake and really help people catch some fish. Plenty of spots, plenty of fish, and it’s all public water with a public access. If I talk about a first-light-inside weed edge topwater Bass bite, a lot of people can use that tidbit of information and apply it to waters near them. Or look at all the great Pool 2 reports. If you really want to catch Walleyes on Pool 2 there are a lot of great reports that will tell you what to do.

But when it comes to trout fishing, you can’t hardly say anything useful. If you’re talking about fly fishing I suppose you could talk about what hatches are occurring or what fly you used to match the hatch. A far as locations, forget it. And I don’t mean “the old spruce stump in the second bend past the bridge” I mean the name of the river! Personally I don’t find the reports of big Trout being caught on private land to be very useful. Don’t get me wrong; the pictures are great and it’s very interesting and I respect the amount of skill and effort needed to catch a fish like that. However there’s nothing in that post that’s going to put me close to any fish. The reporter is either protecting the resource or respecting the landowner’s wishes……which is commendable and understandable.

Now if you want to get into this game from scratch, you’re looking at a lot of long drives to unknown locations, a lot of walking, potential conflicts with the locals (which is why I won’t fish in Wisconsin any more) and a heck of a lot of work before you are even fishing. And you’re really on your own while you’re doing this. It’s a lot easier to pick up that fly rod, head to some warm water location, and catch some Bass or panfish.

Rootski

I get the point. I understand private land and protecting your relationship with the land owners, that is a no brainier!! I know that I have seen a number of post of big brown on the mighty v. That is giving away your secret spots and will lead to over fishing???

If I understand this correctly if I mention I was fishing beaver creek with nymphs and dries and caught a 20+ fish. I just gave away a hot spot?

I thought I was helping out my fellow anglers giving them options to enjoy the sport we all love! I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this issue!!

I will post the names of the streams I fish and have luck on to inform people on this site. If I run out of trout I guess I will know why!

I agree with Rootski that the reports are not really leading anyone to a fish. But what is wrong with given water conditions of a particular stream i.e. clear, cloudy, vegetation, hatches?? I can go into gander and find that out on the white board the too must be giving away hot spots. You still need some skill and some luck to land the fish regardless of how you are fishing for them.
I am not looking for anyone to give me their hot spot locations but it would be nice to hear how different streams are doing. Nothing worse than driving an hour plus to a stream for it to be unfishable!! is that even a word? I like to fish two new streams a year and it disappointing to drive a great distance to a location found on the trout map and find it to be poor quality. Gas is still not cheap to be wasting at least not for me.

Well maybe cool stories and photos of big fish caught without revealing the exact locations still promotes the sport. Vermillion you have to put in a lot of time before you are rewarded. I think most give up on the stream to fish more productive waters. If I fish three times there, twice I’ll get skunked or catch suckers or maybe a northern. It is tough hiking, fields loaded with ticks, sink holes, all kinds of hazards. Plus let’s face it, it’s not a spring creek, and not pristine in comparison to other trout streams.

So I’m willing to help the newcomers out with placed they would ave better chances of success catching trout in streams with above average population. A place that has easier hiking, even public access. And for those that put in their time and do have some awesome spots that should be guarded, well if you have the option to “trade” spots, that is probably best over PMs and emails.

Trout Brook still has a whole stretch of beaver dams and several very deep holes,(one over 10ft I’m betting) Just no more fish really worth catching the last couple years. As for Pine the land owner on 20 in CF is very nice and if you ask him he will allow you to fish his land if you pick up and I have caught several Browns over 15″ in this stretch. On the back end there is a huge man made foot dam and there are some absolute monster browns in there. I myself caught a 20″er outta that area and have talked to several people that claim to have caught trout over 4lbs outta that end and the landowners back there are very accomadating to the respectful fisherman. (Clean up and keep noise down and obey regs) So that would be a good place to start for a trophy on a smaller stream. On the upstream end there are bulls however, and you must watch for them or be unpleasantely surprised.