Some Coast Guard Licensing Facts!!!

  • chubby
    Bloomington
    Posts: 240
    #1265109

    These discussions about the right or wrong of this current enforcement action by the USCG are a wee bit ridiculous.

    THE MONEY: Fact: The USCG gets not one penny from the class costs, not one penny from the drug test cost or cost of the physical. The only money that the USCG gets is for the license fee itself, or the exam fee if you test with them not one of the license schools. A little over $100 and good for 5 years. It works out to be just a bit more than the cost of a fishing license on a yearly basis. Why have none of you rocket scientists been able figure out that the ones who have the most to gain financially is the schools who give the licensing classes. They could in theory turn in a guide and gain a client. I do not beleive that is the case, but you can be sure that they are not averse to increased enforcement that will benefit them financialy.

    THE CLASS: Fact: There is no requirement to take a class to get the license. It is a shortcut that some people choose do at their own expense.

    THE LICENSE: Fact: There are many licenses that you can get based on need and experience.

    Remote Rivers-good on remote Alaskan rivers.

    Western Rivers-good for rivers west of the Miss.

    Limited OUPV-good for up to 6 pass. in a limited area.

    OUPV-good for 6 pass. in any US water up to 100 mi offshore.

    Masters-available in different grades from 50 tons on up and 6 pass. on up based upon your experience level.

    THE TEST: Fact: All of the test modules require a score of 70% to pass, with the exception of the RULES OF THE ROAD module which does require a 90% score to pass. I would have the expectation that a commercial operator get it right at least that often if I am paying them.

    The USCG Fact: The United States Coast Guard is proud and storied organization whose members will come and save your sorry, ignorant, or drunken a$$ anywhere, at anytime, in any weather, and put their lives on the line to ensure your safe return to your family.

    Those of you who state that this is an unwarranted attempt to soak the poor widdle fishing guide for a few bucks stand tall and loudly proclaim “Hear me now for I am ignorant, have not checked my facts, and know not of that which I speak!” Your mother must be so proud!

    You need a license to earn your living cutting hair and I cannot recall anyone ever injured in a horrible scissor, mousse, or barber chair accident ever in my lifetime. But it is a requirement that every tonsorial professional meets without so much as a whine. Can hairdressers really be that much tougher of a breed than we as fishermen are?

    greg_r
    Woodbury MN
    Posts: 240
    #819934

    Some other facts:
    USCG approved school $695
    USCG lic fee $145
    TSA TWIC card $132.50
    CPR-First aid class $75
    Drug test $80
    Physical ins co-pay $20
    hearing test inc.
    eye exam $50
    documented 360 hrs on the water (sea service)
    3 character reference letters
    completed oath form (notary)
    Display registration
    documentation
    type 1 PFD’s for everyone
    non expired flares
    fire extinguisher
    sound making devise
    ventilation
    nav lights
    pollution placecard
    marpol trash place card
    marine sanitation devices
    navigation rules
    drug testing kit
    + state and local requirements
    yes it’s All on the test and you must know the rules of the road or you will NOT get a license.
    your time: priceless…

    dtro
    Inactive
    Jordan
    Posts: 1501
    #819942

    I bet those are some fact most people didn’t know( I for one).

    Thanks

    Like you say, most professions require some sort of certification and/or licensing. The argument in this case for me is why not have applicable courses? You don’t learn how to swing a hammer at beauty school. Or even better yet, get these ridiculous land locked lakes classified as “Navigable” waters off the list. I have yet to read a good argument to those 2 points.

    I for one will always have the same respect for the USCG as I do for Firemen and Peace Officers (geez they save lives for crying out loud) , but how about a little common sense huh? In my opinion, the USCG should stay out of inland waters. They are the “Coast” guard after all

    carroll58
    Twin Cities, USA
    Posts: 2094
    #820087

    Ok, ok, my $0.02

    He has been guiding for 50-years, no safety issues, no problems and yet they shut him down without warning, just a phone call “Stay OFF the River”.

    MY whole point is there are Rules and there are RULES! some good some Bad, I say these are Bad.

    I’ll be one of the first to surmise that there is an ANTI-FISHING Person or GROUP behind this push stopping Guides.

    Get them Stopped and then they’ll go after another small group.

    On who’s watch did this start? OBAMA.

    I say we start a Protest to change these archaic stupid rules made for the SEA and OCEAN and get Rules suited Specifically for our INLAND RIVERS and LAKES.

    Let’s get Griz back on the water and get the Rules changed.

    If we as Sportsmen & Sportswomen do not stop this now, who’s group or activities will be stopped next.

    Who is with me on this?

    northstar42
    west central Minnesotsa
    Posts: 921
    #820116

    Chubby and Greg R, thanks for the education, I needed it. Several issues should be address, starting with why the sudden step up in enforcement. It would seem a bit more fair if the folks trying to make a living would have been given some reasonable time frame to comply. Second, the rules seem a bit of over kill for the waters covered.

    Having said that, it only stands to reason that if you are taking someone’s money, you should be able to meet certain standards and basic skill levels.

    I have long wondered why some guides were called captain and others not. Seems to have been answered. I think the article in the Tribune was a little misleading and heavy handed. It would actually seem that the guides who have taken the time and spent the money to get properly licensed have been taken advantage of by those who have not done the same.

    Where would you get materials to study for the test?

    chris-tuckner
    Hastings/Isle MN
    Posts: 12318
    #820136

    I have no problem with anything stated above.
    My ONLY issue is that I would like to see this spread across the board evenly. If you buy a $150k boat and load it full of dunken (Or otherwise) passengers and run up and down the same navigable waters, YOU should be Coast Guard “Licensed” as well.

    buck-slayer
    Posts: 1499
    #820161

    My guess is the hairdresser simply writes a check for their license.

    stuart
    Mn.
    Posts: 3682
    #820163

    Carroll58
    If the Griz has been guiding fo 50 years and the law has been on the books from 1968,you want to grandfather him in ??

    marty_hahn
    New Prague,MN
    Posts: 52
    #820198

    Quote:


    I have no problem with anything stated above.
    My ONLY issue is that I would like to see this spread across the board evenly. If you buy a $150k boat and load it full of dunken (Or otherwise) passengers and run up and down the same navigable waters, YOU should be Coast Guard “Licensed” as well.


    Amen Chris!
    I have been fairly quiet through this whole process and not because I’m not right in the middle of it. I have just went through the OUPV renewal. Yes, I have had this license that some claim ignonrance of for five years. Do I agree with all the parts and pieces of this license, no way. I do know it’s the law and have tried to do everything to comply.

    The question has been raised before “Did you learn anything valuable while going through the class that enabled me to pass the test”? Yes I did. You are responsible for your wake and any injuries caused by or because of it.

    Obviously there are many uneducated people out there. I know that a knowledgable operator of a 30′ cruiser underway at full throttle, throwing a 4′ wake would not drive through an area full of fishing boats, some of which are very small and have little free board.

    So yes, there should be a license required to operate these big cruisers. If for no other reason than to educate them on the rules of the road which most obviously don’t know.
    They pose a far greater danger to people than Joe fisherman.

    I just grit my teeth every time I get my world rocked by one of these giants. Knowing the time and money I have spent to comply and also knowing many of these folks have just thrown down the money for the big rig and hit the water.

    Thanks Chris for bringing up this very good point.

    Marty

    Wade Boardman
    Grand Rapids, MN
    Posts: 4453
    #820088

    Quote:


    The question has been raised before “Did you learn anything valuable while going through the class that enabled me to pass the test”? Yes I did. You are responsible for your wake and any injuries caused by or because of it.

    Obviously there are many uneducated people out there. I know that a knowledgeable operator of a 30′ cruiser underway at full throttle, throwing a 4′ wake would not drive through an area full of fishing boats, some of which are very small and have little free board.

    So yes, there should be a license required to operate these big cruisers. If for no other reason than to educate them on the rules of the road which most obviously don’t know.
    They pose a far greater danger to people than Joe fisherman.
    Marty


    Well, you need to take a snowmobile safety course to ride sleds in MN if you have been born after a certain date. I don’t see any reason that boats, 4-wheelers, etc should be any different.

    My dad made me take a “watercraft operators course” when I was in my teen years before I could drive our boat or go fishing with him on Lake Superior. Basically to know the laws and buoys. All we ever had was a typical 17′ Lund. I learned a lot and use that knowledge to this day.

    willhorgan
    USA
    Posts: 97
    #820236

    Is it a bit heavy handed the way the CG has gone about this dealing with “Grizz” and others?

    Answer: YES

    In my line of work I have a pile of regulations and insurance that needs to be delt with and I loose jobs every month to unregisterd, uninsured, not paying payroll taxes pirates. If I were a guide and I had all my mandated ducks in a row and I was loosing business to pirate guides you can bet that I would be plenty bent out of shape. I would probably be directing my anger at the CG for not enforcing this until now.

    Does it make sense to have a “6pack” to guide on Red Lake?

    OF COURSE NOT

    but its the law!!!

    My two cents

    stuart
    Mn.
    Posts: 3682
    #821362

    TTT for u know who

    AllenW
    Mpls, MN
    Posts: 2895
    #821492

    Just curious, why stop at 150k?
    Are you saying everybody who has a boat cheaper than that knows how to behave on the water???
    I don’t think so imho

    But what I think where we differentiate is the “For Hire” part of this, while everybody ought to know basic watercraft rules, the Pro has to not only know these but be responsible for his party.
    People hire them because they are suppose to know what they’re doing.

    I haven’t a clue whether the current rules are fair for inland fishing, they ought to be if they aren’t, not many 500 foot cargo ships running pool 4 lately, but there ought to be a license for guiding, people need to know that the person who is taking them out is capable of dealing with problems should they arise.

    For someone to have known about this since 1968 or so and to not be in compliance, just means to me that they spun the chamber repeatedly and came up empty, till now.

    I’m not sure what ya can do to correct the license requirements, but until then, its the game they want to play, either way good luck to the guides.

    Al

    stuart
    Mn.
    Posts: 3682
    #821911

    I agree Allen

    ggoody
    Mpls MN
    Posts: 2603
    #821998

    Quote:


    Carroll58
    If the Griz has been guiding fo 50 years and the law has been on the books from 1968,you want to grandfather him in ??


    Absolutely… I want to be able to be taken out and put on fish on the River by the GriZ and Chris Tuckner!

    So yes I want the Griz grandfathered in…..don’t get me wrong I feel for the guides that have taken and passed the test and can see there point of bringing to light guides that have not passed the test..

    stuart
    Mn.
    Posts: 3682
    #822204

    [quote

    Absolutely… I want to be able to be taken out and put on fish on the River by the GriZ and Chris Tuckner!


    That would be worth about a six-pack of Old Style.

    ggoody
    Mpls MN
    Posts: 2603
    #824061

    Strict Coast Guard license rules threaten Minnesota outfitters, fishing guides

    Feds dusting off 40-year-old set of strict requirements

    By Chris Niskanen

    [email protected]

    Updated: 12/15/2009 11:32:53 PM CST

    As a canoe outfitter at the edge of the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness, Blayne Hall has seen his business ravaged by windstorms and challenged by wilderness lawsuits and regulations.

    His latest nemesis: the long arm of the U.S. Coast Guard.

    Hundreds of Minnesota fishing guides, outfitters and tour operators are facing expensive safety regulations enforced by the U.S. Coast Guard that include, among other things, random drug testing.

    The Coast Guard has notified Minnesota commercial outfitters and guides that unless they have a federal “Six Pack” license, they no longer can operate their small boats on federally navigable waters, such as the Mississippi River, the St. Croix River or many lakes in northern Minnesota.

    It includes some waters in the BWCAW, where small operators such as Hall use motorboats to shuttle canoeists and where local guides show anglers where to catch fish.

    The Six Pack license requires commercial boat operators to pass a lengthy test on navigation and boat safety; have CPR certification; pass a physical and health examination; prove they have three to 12 months of on-water boating experience; submit three personal references; and pass a drug test. They also must be 18 years or older.

    Boat operators and guides also are required to have a Transportation Worker Identification Credential, or TWIC, which requires a background check called a federal “security threat assessment” to ensure operators aren’t a threat to secure

    harbors.

    To Hall, the requirements sound not just absurd, but like a serious blow to his business.

    “The Ely community is absolutely petrified by this,” said Hall, owner of Hall and Williams Outfitters on Moose Lake and president of the Ely Area Tourism Board.

    “I have high school kids who drive towboats up and down the lake all summer. Are they going to make them pee in a bottle?”

    The licenses and drug and physical testing cost about $600, but most applicants have to take a special course costing $700 to $1,000 to prepare for the Six Pack test.

    Richard “Griz” Grzywinski, of St. Paul, a well-known fishing guide, was ordered off local rivers last summer by the U.S. Coast Guard and told to get a Six Pack license.

    He signed up for the class this fall and studied a 350-page textbook but failed the test in November.

    “I can’t pass it. My living is shot,” Grzywinski said Tuesday. “The test asks you questions like, ‘How many green lights are there on a mine sweeper?’ I guess there are three.”

    A U.S. Coast Guard spokesman said the Six Pack license requirement, which applies to commercial boat operators with six or fewer passengers, has been on the books for 40 years but hasn’t been widely enforced until now.

    The TWIC requirement became law last spring.

    U.S. Rep. Jim Oberstar, D-Minn., is chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, which oversees the Coast Guard.

    Oberstar spokesman John Schadl said the congressman’s staff has met with Coast Guard officials to devise a new, less stringent licensing requirement for small-boat operators.

    Schadl said the new license should be inexpensive and not require guides and boat operators to travel a long distance to get it.

    “I believe the current proposal is being reviewed in the D.C. (Coast Guard) headquarters,” Schadl said. “They (the Coast Guard) have the ability to make these rules practical and workable.

    “We’re hoping something will be out soon. Certainly, we want this resolved by spring for the fishing season,” he said.

    Coast Guard officials say the licensing requirement is to protect the public.

    “The Coast Guard’s primary goal is to ensure the safety and security of people using U.S. navigable waters,” Lt. Dave French said in an e-mail. He is a spokesman for the Coast Guard’s 9th district, based in Cleveland, which oversees northern Minnesota.

    French acknowledged that the Coast Guard is looking at less onerous licensing options for fishing guides and boat operators. “We intend to work as quickly as possible on this,” he said.

    The rules are being enforced on the Mississippi, St. Croix and Minnesota rivers, as well as the lakes connected to the Mississippi, such as Winnibigoshish. Other waters that are considered federally navigable include Lake of the Woods, Upper Red Lake, Lake Vermilion, Gull Lake, the Whitefish Chain and Lake Mille Lacs.

    Tom Neustrom, a fishing guide based in Grand Rapids, said he fears the Coast Guard will crack down on fishing guides this spring, giving little time for anyone to get a license.

    “We’d be out of business,” he said, adding that in 32 years, he has never heard of an accident involving a fishing guide in northern Minnesota.

    Hall held an emergency meeting of the Ely Outfitters Association on Tuesday to talk about the requirements. About 25 business owners, guides and outfitters showed up. Hall said he and others left the meeting worried that the Coast Guard’s solution still might force some operators out of business.

    He said outfitters have been in contact with Oberstar’s office.

    “They make (the new proposal) sound like a lollipop, but the devil’s in the detail,” Hall said. He added that outfitters and their craft are either regulated or inspected by the U.S. Forest Service, Homeland Security, the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources and the county sheriff’s office.

    ggoody
    Mpls MN
    Posts: 2603
    #824247

    Quote:


    You need a license to earn your living cutting hair and I cannot recall anyone ever injured in a horrible scissor, mousse, or barber chair accident ever in my lifetime. But it is a requirement that every tonsorial professional meets without so much as a whine. Can hairdressers really be that much tougher of a breed than we as fishermen are?


    Not the greatest analogy, IMO frankly.

    Hey, how many Green Lights on a minesweeper guys?…

    AllenW
    Mpls, MN
    Posts: 2895
    #824252

    Have to admit, been awhile since a seen a mine sweeper running up and down pool 4.

    I sure they get this figured out before some good people go down the tubes because of it, while I believe in licensing, sure seems it’s typical govt BS and over kill.

    Al

    farmboy1
    Mantorville, MN
    Posts: 3668
    #824256

    Quote:


    Quote:


    You need a license to earn your living cutting hair and I cannot recall anyone ever injured in a horrible scissor, mousse, or barber chair accident ever in my lifetime. But it is a requirement that every tonsorial professional meets without so much as a whine. Can hairdressers really be that much tougher of a breed than we as fishermen are?


    Not the greatest analogy, IMO frankly.

    Hey, how many Green Lights on a minesweeper guys?…


    I don’t think this is necessary, but it is what it is. If you want to guide, take the test. While this may be repealed, I do not see it happening with any speed, and if you want to guide in the meantime, take the test and become certified.

    IMHO I have always had a lot of respect for the “Griz” up until this. He may be playing the sympathy card, but he comes off as a pompous, arrogant who is too stupid to take a test. It is not his fault that he did not study hard enough, it is the govs

    stuart
    Mn.
    Posts: 3682
    #828425

    Do ice fishing guides need to have a coast gaurd lic.on these bodies of water also?
    They take folks out in large vehicals on ice that is never safe.
    Brian could you look this up for me?

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