Antler point restriction

You seem to hunt around farming country from the words you have spoken, but not every one tills up their land. (no till)?
Not all deer live in the farming area.
I guess the point I am trying to make is we all have and hunt in diffrent areas, but being a selfish as a person can be, it should be up to the trigger puller to make that call. Weather she/he young or old decide which animal they feel that would best suite their harvest.
Not because YOU want to see them harvest a throphy.

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Has any state tried only shooting deer under 6 point and anterless to see what the results would be? That way population would still be under control.
Every debate needs two sides

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Anyone???

While I personally appreciate the antler point restriction, because it matches my own hunting, I don’t appreciate the DNR forcing this down our throats.

Here is why:
1983: Can shoot any buck, have to draw for a lottery to shoot a doe or fawn.
1993: Shoot a buck or doe.
2003: Shoot a buck or doe, get a management tag to shoot another doe, plus get bonus tags to shoot 3 more does. on top of that.
2010: Shoot any doe or fawn, plus a management tag to shoot a fawn, but only a buck with 4 pts on one side.

This is all for 339 area.

What is hosed about all of this is that some areas in zone 3 are lottery doe tag drawings only. So, in several areas of zone 3, the “hunters” are FORCED into shooting only a mature buck and nothing else and they are prevented from enjoying a “hunt”………all because some greedy lobbyist want monster bucks for the whole entire zone.

THAT is the problem here.
Lobbyist have pushed and pressured the DNR to do this, not for the benefit of zone 3, but for the benefit of their little parcel of land in a specific area.

This isn’t deer heard management. This is lobbyist pushing for trophy management that is effecting the whole area and the MAJORITY of deer hunters are being cheated out of the thrill of the kill, and only have the oportunity of the thrill of the chase.

With this said, look at the impact Mille Lacs has suffered because of fish slot restriction. THAT was not put in place to protect the fish. That was a political move. The “people” don’t like it.

Don’t try and ploy this BS down the throats of the “hunters” because QDM people want trophy bucks, that there was surveys. The survey should be taken at the time of license purchase for all in zone 3 for next year. So when you purchase your license, you place the vote.

Don’t deny and try and pawn off how the LOBBYIST pushed the DNR for these meetings with their methods of holding “public meetings”, when there was no notice given to the public.

If you think you are a better person because you hunt trophy bucks then the hunter who “hunts”, then I rate you within the same group of self-centered, pompous, inglorious few who call themselves muskie hunters. You insult those who don’t think the same way. You cheat those who don’t think the same way. It isn’t about protecting the heard, it is about your own person vendetta of trophy hunting being shoved down the throats of the common hunter.

As of today, my father can no longer deer hunt at the age of 86, because at distances longer than 50 yards, he cannot count the antler points of a buck. We have to sit with him to help him. Here is a man that could knock down a running fox at 150yards with a 22, or a running buck at 125 yards, with a single shot. You lobbyist have cheated the “hunter”.

Such a sad day, because I’ve been there with my deer hunting in Texas. Pretty soon, you’ll all be so happy to have to pay $1000 just to sit in a box stand, over looking 40 acres.
I’ve been there and I don’t like it. It isn’t hunting.

Right on Brotha!!

I got a better idea!
Let’s have lottery draws for bucks that are 4pt or better!!!!!

Gary, this is what I was thinking but could not put it into words like you can. I salute you for this!
Guys/Gals, I hope you take this into concideration because WE are going to be there some day. I would never want to take the maybe last deer away from someone that has taught us how to hunt,track and find deer signs.
Wow Gary, you even got me thinking on that one. I got wrapped in My own little world.

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Coming from a farming background I have little to no compasion for the farmers, They make DAM good money off the crops and then till them 12 inches deep as soon as they are harvested, leaving a barron waste land of dirt. I hope the deer get in every bite they can!! If it wasnt some farmers “land” it would be a wild natural diverse ecosystem thriving on its own provideing food and cover for all animals. Farmers need to remember that your going to have a deer density of somany deer per square mile weather they like it or not!!

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I sure hope you are not talking with you mouth full when you made that comment about farmers.

The only reason I oppose apr is because of the intrusion of government further into the things I love, and like Gary stated those who have done it for decades are left out of the hunt do to a physical inability, and that’s a dam shame!! I’m a meat hunter born and bred, but also will raise my boy differently I’m my DREAM LAND everyone could harvest does or hold off for a big buck filling a doe tag at the end of the season ifv a buck wasn’t shot. My biggest issue lies with the thrill killers( people who shoot whatever comes in then gives it away only to count the days till they can do it again) and the guys who fill everyone in their parties tag with young bucks! I sure wish here at the tail end of the rut that I had a tree stand to sit in with hopes of even seeing a deer but reality is that’s just not the case as the neighbors and tresspassers have the deer so spooked they are unhuntable… the ones that are left For the record I hunt the woods, the metro and farm land! With farm land showing the biggest signs of a crashing population!

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You see, I hate to say this but, education is a huge factor that is missing, web touched on it. Going antler less for 2 or 3 years, will decimate the herd, plain and simple, nobody wants that… A farmer wants his prize bull to spread his seed, no he wouldn’t shoot him.. anymore than he would shoot his offspring when it was a suckling bull calf ??? I guess I am selfish, if I want to see more 10 point bucks in the back of guys pick-ups, than spikers… Who wouldn’t ???

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Sorry G for picking you out but, has that ever been done?
Everyone is saying what other states have done. In the bussiness I am in you don’t wait for others to set the playing field, You set the playing field.
Maybe we should think out of the box.

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Coming from a farming background I have little to no compasion for the farmers, They make DAM good money off the crops and then till them 12 inches deep as soon as they are harvested, leaving a barron waste land of dirt. I hope the deer get in every bite they can!! If it wasnt some farmers “land” it would be a wild natural diverse ecosystem thriving on its own provideing food and cover for all animals. Farmers need to remember that your going to have a deer density of somany deer per square mile weather they like it or not!!

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I sure hope you are not talking with you mouth full when you made that comment about farmers.

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Actually I come from a long line of farmers who were forced out of it because of big time farmers with no regard to any thing except their pocket books. AND for the record NO til farming is far better for everyone but old ways will never die. An idiot would be the guy who has cut funding for the CRP program and the poeple who biuld their home next to a farm to get out of the city, only to complain about the smell and the eyesores that the farm emits. I burried my Grandpa on Saturday but was lucky enough to talk with him the week before for over 4 hours about what an idiot is and I’m sorry but I might be a over opinionated punk kid but I’m not an idiot!

If it’s greedy and selfish to regulate the harvest of deer, then it is just as greedy and selfish to think that you have the right to take whatever you see fit. Luckily this country doesn’t work that way. We aren’t allowed to take whatever we want for a reason. Expanding on the analogy of shooting deer, where does it stop? If you feel that you have the right to harvest any deer you want, then do you have the right to harvest whenever you want and how ever you want? Does that mean that we should be able to harvest deer anytime of the year and with a machine gun in the middle of the night? It was mentioned above, that some people would if they could. It’s ironic that people currently hunt under the current restriction, but seem to think that a new restriction is somehow more damaging than all the restrictions put in place year ago.

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I got a better idea!
Let’s have lottery draws for bucks that are 4pt or better!!!!!

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I agree fully!! Where do I sign up!!

Guys we won’t have all the name calling on here If you got a PROBLEM take it up in a P.M. If not you will get this post shut down faster than you can count 4pts on a bucks head

When I started this thread I did not mean to get a war going on, but I just want everyone to be happy with what they harvest see if it affected the hunters in the 300 area?
I will hunt the muzzle loader season down here with hopes of taking a couple of antlers deer.
Yes I could take 4 antlerless deer but my family will be set with 1 or 2 I love hunting and we love the meat.
Good luck to all

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Guys we won’t have all the name calling on here If you got a PROBLEM take it up in a P.M. If not you will get this post shut down faster than you can count 4pts on a bucks head

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Well said Jason

There will be NO personal shots on here

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If it’s greedy and selfish to regulate the harvest of deer, then it is just as greedy and selfish to think that you have the right to take whatever you see fit. Luckily this country doesn’t work that way. We aren’t allowed to take whatever we want for a reason. Expanding on the analogy of shooting deer, where does it stop? If you feel that you have the right to harvest any deer you want, then do you have the right to harvest whenever you want and how ever you want? Does that mean that we should be able to harvest deer anytime of the year and with a machine gun in the middle of the night? It was mentioned above, that some people would if they could. It’s ironic that people currently hunt under the current restriction, but seem to think that a new restriction is somehow more damaging than all the restrictions put in place year ago.

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I question you, if we all shot four points or better what would happen to the deer population?

Think the Vikings still have a shot at the playoffs?

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I question you, if we all shot four points or better what would happen to the deer population?

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Theoretically it should stay the same because there are plenty of does to shoot instead of the bucks that don’t meet the point restriction. That is in area where does can be harvested. But my best guess says the overall population will go up just slightly the first couple years, and then level off. It only takes a couple years (or less) for the bucks to continue to mature enough to have 4 on one side. This will increase the population of older bucks but increase the harvest of them too. So it should equal out.

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If it’s greedy and selfish to regulate the harvest of deer, then it is just as greedy and selfish to think that you have the right to take whatever you see fit.

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Nope!
That is not the subject here.
APR is NOT about controlling the harvest for the benefit of the heard.

APR is about the controlling of specific size bucks to produce a “trophy zone”.

This has absolutley nothing to do with heard management.

I think we all agree that we want good harvest management so EVERYONE can hunt/harvest a deer.

That’s why I’m pissed at the lobbyist pushing for their own private, personal agenda against the government for which it states: “We The People”…….Not “We the trophy buck hunters”.

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I got a better idea!
Let’s have lottery draws for bucks that are 4pt or better!!!!!

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I agree fully!! Where do I sign up!!

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Be careful here, I’d like to see how well this would site with some of the big rack hunters here if they has to sit out a year or 2 not being able to shoot a wall hanger because they were3 not chosen in a lottery

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Guys we won’t have all the name calling on here If you got a PROBLEM take it up in a P.M. If not you will get this post shut down faster than you can count 4pts on a bucks head

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Then shut her down becasue that is precisely the point we are at now. You would be doing all of us a favor.

There are valid points for both sides and the post is actually interesting….we just need to keep the personal attacks to each other out of this. This is a pretty HOT topic that we are obviously not going to sway people one way or the other in a forum like this. I personally have learned quite a bit about how people view deer hunting and what they expect/want out of their seasons in this post. I’m sure we can debate this topic for months, but the major beefs need to be taken up with your states DNR and not try to resolve them here!

After following this post for 2 days I’m going to end my involvement with one last statement. The season has always been, is currently, and hopefully always will be called Deer Hunting – Not RACK HUNTING. I’d hate to see what will become of the sport and the deer population if the day comes where the majority of hunters are just in the sport for the BIG racks!!!!

I enjoy hearing everyones opinions, it need not come to name calling but its great that there are places like this site where people can voice thier veiws.This is a topic where people tend to be very divided but as stated before WE are all DEER HUNTERS, we need to stick together as a whole to retain our ability to do what we love, some day a happy median will be made, after all it is all about the HUNT and everything that comes with it, weather or not some of us turn it into a 365 day a year obsession is our own deal but there must be comprimise on this issue somewhere! Good luck to all and safe seasons!

Can you imagine the hair pulling that would take place on that “other” site over this topic?

This is a great post with some great viewpoints coming from all sides. The one thing that stands out for me is that we all very passionate about deer hunting!

As I’ve said before many times… we all hunt for different personal reasons and no personal reason is more important than another.

I choose not to shoot small bucks and on 3 different hunts after I passed them up, someone else killed them. On two occassions, I helped them drag them out. I was not upset at them for killing those bucks. I congratulated them because they were both happy with the deer that they shot.

In that area, it became extremely difficult to shoot a mature buck because of the hunting pressure and almost everyone was shooting small bucks. Never once did I complain about it. I just found another area that was better suited for me for my personal reasons of killing a big buck. I also started to hunt with others who had similar beliefs as me.

Even though an antler restriction would benefit me and my personal goal to shoot a big buck, I am against it simply because my reason is not more important than anyone elses. I can still shoot a big buck without antler restrictions but I will not prevent a meat hunter from shooting what they want. Another way of saying it is being a trophy hunter I can shoot whatever buck I choose and a meat hunter should be able to do the same thing.

Many big buck hunters argue well if you’re after meat – then shoot a doe instead of a little buck! I think they are missing the point. They are not after a doe or a buck – they are after meat and if that is the reason why they deer hunt – that’s good enough for me and I don’t expect them to pass on little bucks so that I can benefit.

However, I also believe that some hunters don’t realize how easy it can be to grow big bucks. Many hunters fall in between trophy hunting and meat hunting. They hope to shoot a big buck but settle on killing a small one. It only takes a couple of years of passing on small bucks and your property can produce! Here’s where education comes in along with patience. Many of my friends who used to shoot the first deer they see, are now passing them up and their personal reasons of why they hunt change with success.

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This is a great post with some great viewpoints coming from all sides. The one thing that stands out for me is that we all very passionate about deer hunting!

As I’ve said before many times… we all hunt for different personal reasons and no personal reason is more important than another.

I choose not to shoot small bucks and on 3 different hunts after I passed them up, someone else killed them. On two occassions, I helped them drag them out. I was not upset at them for killing those bucks. I congratulated them because they were both happy with the deer that they shot.

In that area, it became extremely difficult to shoot a mature buck because of the hunting pressure and almost everyone was shooting small bucks. Never once did I complain about it. I just found another area that was better suited for me for my personal reasons of killing a big buck. I also started to hunt with others who had similar beliefs as me.

Even though an antler restriction would benefit me and my personal goal to shoot a big buck, I am against it simply because my reason is not more important than anyone elses. I can still shoot a big buck without antler restrictions but I will not prevent a meat hunter from shooting what they want. Another way of saying it is being a trophy hunter I can shoot whatever buck I choose and a meat hunter should be able to do the same thing.

Many big buck hunters argue well if you’re after meat – then shoot a doe instead of a little buck! I think they are missing the point. They are not after a doe or a buck – they are after meat and if that is the reason why they deer hunt – that’s good enough for me and I don’t expect them to pass on little bucks so that I can benefit.

However, I also believe that some hunters don’t realize how easy it can be to grow big bucks. Many hunters fall in between trophy hunting and meat hunting. They hope to shoot a big buck but settle on killing a small one. It only takes a couple of years of passing on small bucks and your property can produce! Here’s where education comes in along with patience. Many of my friends who used to shoot the first deer they see, are now passing them up and their personal reasons of why they hunt change with success.

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Brad as always you said it far better than I could – Your feeling on the subject sum up my feelings exactly !!!!!!!!

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This is a great post with some great viewpoints coming from all sides. The one thing that stands out for me is that we all very passionate about deer hunting!

As I’ve said before many times… we all hunt for different personal reasons and no personal reason is more important than another.

I choose not to shoot small bucks and on 3 different hunts after I passed them up, someone else killed them. On two occassions, I helped them drag them out. I was not upset at them for killing those bucks. I congratulated them because they were both happy with the deer that they shot.

In that area, it became extremely difficult to shoot a mature buck because of the hunting pressure and almost everyone was shooting small bucks. Never once did I complain about it. I just found another area that was better suited for me for my personal reasons of killing a big buck. I also started to hunt with others who had similar beliefs as me.

Even though an antler restriction would benefit me and my personal goal to shoot a big buck, I am against it simply because my reason is not more important than anyone elses. I can still shoot a big buck without antler restrictions but I will not prevent a meat hunter from shooting what they want. Another way of saying it is being a trophy hunter I can shoot whatever buck I choose and a meat hunter should be able to do the same thing.

Many big buck hunters argue well if you’re after meat – then shoot a doe instead of a little buck! I think they are missing the point. They are not after a doe or a buck – they are after meat and if that is the reason why they deer hunt – that’s good enough for me and I don’t expect them to pass on little bucks so that I can benefit.

However, I also believe that some hunters don’t realize how easy it can be to grow big bucks. Many hunters fall in between trophy hunting and meat hunting. They hope to shoot a big buck but settle on killing a small one. It only takes a couple of years of passing on small bucks and your property can produce! Here’s where education comes in along with patience. Many of my friends who used to shoot the first deer they see, are now passing them up and their personal reasons of why they hunt change with success.

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Brad as always you said it far better than I could – Your feeling on the subject sum up my feelings exactly !!!!!!!!

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Mine too !! Funny how his explanation can sum up feelings on both sides… He’s onto something….

I find it quite ironic that Mr. Sieve, a staunch advocate from Houston County MN for changes in our current regulations to create a more mature male deer herd in Southern Minnesota, gave a presentation to the Wabasha County Commissioners on the economic benefits of deer hunting and the benefits of promoting southern Minnesota as an outstate hunter destination. Now, quite a few of us from Wabasha County, when the new regulations were put in place, roundtabled the reasons why certain individuals / groups were pushing for this. All of us came to an agreement that a select few see an individual economic gain from promotion of this concept. Currently Minnesota is 47th for out of state hunters coming here for deer hunting. We believe a select group has a long term strategy to take advantage of a more mature deer herd to promote a pay-for-hunting atmosphere like so many states already have – Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa, etc.

So,what if we are right?? If we are right, to any degree, what affect will it have on the average hunter that has hunted friendly landowners property over the years? It is pretty simple. Land that was once hunted by friends, family members, etc. will be locked up by the leases that these indviduals / companies, whom see a financial gain for themselves on a client based pay to hunt format.

Can you blame the farmers to lease their land?? Absolutely not. However, a lot of us land owners, etc. will be attending the Wabasha County Commissioners Meetings to give our view points, and if needed, a petition, to NOT have Wabasha County procede with a Deer Hunting Economic Plan that has been presented by Mr. Sieve to Wabasha County.

So, does anybody believe the above could or could not happen, or is / is not being studied? Feel free to contact me for Wabasha County Commissioners transcripts.

Jim Siewert

Are you saying a landowner now, does not have a right to lease his land ? Or that state land will be included in a pay to hunt format ?