Boat:1, Jared:0

  • mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #1086387

    Heres what I know, if the sparks good and it runs when you spray a fuel into the carb then its the fuel supply. You shouldn’t have a problem cleaning the carb, thier very basic and are very similar to an old lawn mower carburaters, you could switch them between those motors and they would run if the bolt holes lined up. The gaskets which you can sometimes reuse, the jet, air mixture needle and float assembly which is very basic and the brass tube that comes up through the center of the carb are all easily removed. If the brass tube dosen’t want to come out then just clean with carb cleaner and blow them out. The motor you have is very easy to work on. Something you shouldn’t loose is if its a 2 piece linkage that runs from the stator to the axel on the carburator butterfly. Sometimes theres a clip that holds those two pieces together, try to leave that clip on and inplace or mark the linkage if you have to take the clip off. If you were a diesel mechanic you shouldn’t have any problems with the carb, especially if you’ve worked on a few car and truck carbs.

    Heres another thing that I always do because I’m that far into the engine. I take the flywheel off and remove the points and run a sand emeryboard through the contacts where they meet. Alot of times its easier to take the points apart because thier two pieces and clean the contacts on both halves. Those motors had a .020 thousandths point gap and it should be stamped into the flywheel for reference.

    Just bring up the high side of the cam on the crankshaft on both sets of points and run the feeler gauge into the point gap. If thier too close it will advance the motor and if thier too wide it will slow the timing some, but the timing is mostly done by the stator rotating on the crankshaft. Try to get the gap as close to the .020 as possible.

    When the carbs cleaned and the points are set right it should run good. If the motors never had the points looked at as far as you know its a good idea to do it and it should run good all summer, make sure the condensor and point screws are tight so they don’t slip because they will, and check for water in the lower unit and the oil level, add some if needed. If waters gotten by the O rings on the propshaft and drive axel that goes through the waterpump then drain and just refill with 90 weight oil, it dosen’t matter if theres a little water in the lower unit as long as you drain it befor winter sets in, the gears will still get enough lubrication.

    joshbjork
    Center of Iowa
    Posts: 727
    #1086399

    All old fuel lines are suspect. They can cause blockage or little bits of them can flow downstream and block things up.

    Gaskets are pretty cheap.

    If the float was the problem it would work ok with the bowl full then act up.

    A lot of problem comes from air leaks. The fuel pumps aren’t that strong so if you have bad o-rings in the quick connectors or leaky connection, it will suck air instead of fuel. If the leak is way down by the carb it will act more like yours.

    There’s an open hole in your gas can.,.,…,..,.,..,.,.,.,.,
    I don’t have a boat motor that works worth a poop on old gas.,.,,..,..,,..,
    Sometimes the gas can is the problem. You can use the primer bulb as a troubleshooter to narrow the problem down.
    Old wires can go bad too. I would replace coils from the 70’s also. Had one coil that was cracked and it would run good enough to get you 1/4 of a mile out or so before it started bogging down and coughing real bad.

    armchairdeity
    Phoenix, AZ, formerly from the NW 'Burbs, Minneapolis, MN, USA
    Posts: 1620
    #1086418

    Thanks, mossy and Josh…

    The wiring on this motor is in pretty bad shape in some places… at some point I will probably take it to our local marine guys to have them rewire it.

    Unless I get my garage cleaned and decide to do it myself.

    Off to go pull the starter and the carb… wish me luck!

    armchairdeity
    Phoenix, AZ, formerly from the NW 'Burbs, Minneapolis, MN, USA
    Posts: 1620
    #1086458

    It’s comin along… But now I get to play electrician. Brittle insulation let water into a bunch of wires, they corroded from the inside out and are now too frayed and rotten to leave. So I’m going to trace them back to decent wire and splice for now. I might do a complete rewire over the winter…

    I just might have this running again today!

    PS – float needle was stuck…

    Blew Gumout through all the orifices I could find, everything seems clean and clear. Will try a test as soon as I get this wiring done.

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #1086490

    Sounds like its coming along Arm, it will probably purr like a kitten.

    dfresh
    Fridley, MN
    Posts: 3053
    #1086502

    I had a piece of crud stuck under the float needle on my old motor. It drove me crazy until I found it, then it ran great. Fixing as many of those wires as you can is probably not a bad idea at all.

    Hell, from the posts in this thread, you have a ‘how to’ to do a pretty thorough tuneup on the thing!

    armchairdeity
    Phoenix, AZ, formerly from the NW 'Burbs, Minneapolis, MN, USA
    Posts: 1620
    #1086513

    Check check check it… check it out!!

    ’nuff said

    You guys are rock stars… thank you! A longer post is due when I get to the computer (posting from my phone) but I figured I should let you know…

    IT LIVES!

    armchairdeity
    Phoenix, AZ, formerly from the NW 'Burbs, Minneapolis, MN, USA
    Posts: 1620
    #1086539

    OK, so I promised a longer post once I got back to my computer. So here goes.

    I pulled the starter off, pulled the carb off and did the first cleaning, put it all back together and… nada. Dead as a brick, still. I had unstuck the float needle, blown gumout thru everything and I was sure it would run. But no go.

    Fixed the wiring, or at least some of it. I think I spliced 3 or 4 wires… I know it needs a whole new wiring job, just not up to that right now. NOW is the time I want to have it ON the water. But since it still wasn’t running I figured I should pull the carb again.

    I’d figured out a few places that I hadn’t cleaned the first time.

    So THIS time I pulled the float, the needle, the needle seat… cleaned all of them. I blew air thru everything, I even removed the air mixture needle and blew gumout and then air thru that passage. And I adjusted the bowl since it was off by a bit.

    Putting things back together I found a crack in the end of the gas line from the fuel pump to the carb… cut the cracked part off and replaced the stupid cable tie with a real hose clamp. Reconnected the electric choke solenoid to the electric and the armature on the choke, reinstalled and and hooked up the starter, it looked like the trottle spark advance mechanism under the flywheel was a bit off so I shifted it back into place too.

    Finally the gas line and battery.

    This was interesting: as I was pumping the bulb on the gas line I noticed that there was sound coming out of the throat of the carb… I could hear the gas filling the bowl. THAT wasn’t something that had happened, at all. I knew I had it.

    Jumped up into the boat and, well, you saw the video right? Zoom zoom zoom.

    Oh, and I added 6 oz of Sea Foam to my 6 gallon gas tank.

    Putting the air intake on and reconnecting the manual choke was no biggie… and boom. Done.

    So… there ya have it. Saga ended, at least for now. Maybe we can have more fun with this when I start tearing into the wiring this winter?

    Finally here’s a big thumbs up to everyone who contributed to this thread. This is the first time I’ve ripped into a boat motor. I don’t know why I have always found them to be so different, but I’ve never worked on one before. Heh, and if you look at my shirt, I’m drenched… with sweat. MAN it was hot out there.

    Anyway, thanks everyone… you ROCK!

    dfresh
    Fridley, MN
    Posts: 3053
    #1086560

    Nice! I am thinking it was a combination of the cracked fuel line hose and the carb float needle. Possible a piece of that broken hose found its way under the needle seat. Or it could have just been the hose. Question – when you were trying to start it previously, was there gas dripping off that hose?

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #1086563

    Good deal Arm, it really isn’t that hard is it. Did you put the motor in a barrell and adjust the air mixture screw, you could also do that at the closest ramp. Once the carb is cleaned and adjusted and the wireing is fixed, the only thing left to do is remove the flywheel and clean the points, thier just like a set of points in a cars distributer. When the points are clean and adjusted right they start in just a few seconds and idle well at low rpm,s. Its easy Arm and once you do it you’ll say to yourself, heck that was a piece of cake. If you can clean and adjust the carb you can do the same with the points. If you take the flywheel off make sure the nut that holds it inplace is really tight or its easy to shear the key that keeps the flywheel inplace, I’ve done it a couple times. That older motor you have runs very good when everythings tuned right.

    dfresh
    Fridley, MN
    Posts: 3053
    #1086569

    Dan’s right about the flywheel/shear pin. Make sure to torque it to spec instead of just ‘good enough’. Nothing worse than when the pin breaks and the motor just screams for a second then dies..

    armchairdeity
    Phoenix, AZ, formerly from the NW 'Burbs, Minneapolis, MN, USA
    Posts: 1620
    #1086673

    I think this evening m on a take out for a test drive on a lake around here… it’s not like there is a shortage of lakes to go around. I will pull the flywheel and check the points sometime soon, right now I just want to see it move me thru the water so I can get in on this crazy hot cat bite.

    So projects yet to do are points and wiring, and it needs new plug wires before next year. Stuff not hard to handle.

    What’s your personal policy on Inge like carb kits? I’m inclined against doing one now because everything looked fairly new and clean, but I reused all the original gaskets… I got it running with no spare parts…

    Just curious…

    One quick thing… do you guys have manuals for these things or have you just been at it so long that you have it all memorized?

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #1086706

    If the carbs not leaking don’t worry about it. The most important gasket is the one that goes between the carb and the manifold, that should be in decen’t shape and if it was I wouldn’t worry about it.

    Alot of those coils had removeable coil wires that just pull out. Befor you do check and try to pull them out call the local marina and see if they have removeable coil wires, some are formed right into the coil and they aren’t removeable, but some are. If they are you can take the new ones and push them back in or sometimes they screw in and out, but you have to remove the flywheel to do it. If you get that far clean the points too.

    No manuals here just learned on my own with a couple words of advice from the local marinas. Remember to go up river or bring a paddle on a lake incase something quits.

    If the carbs pretty clean you will be able to hear the rpm’s go up and down when adjusting the air screw. Adjusting it in and the rpm’s will go down because it makes a richer mixture of air and gas. Once you hear them go down turn the screw back out 1/8th of a turn at a time. When you hear the rpm’s go higher, and stop going higher, then turn the screw back in again until the rpm’s start to go down again. This time when turning the air screw back out, listen for the highest rpm’s you heard befor and stop there.

    If theres too much air going through the mixture it will be hard to start but will run ok, so stop at the highest rpm point and leave it there.

    Take my advice and get some NGK plugs by taking the old ones in you have now so they can cross match the numbers in thier book. If the Evinrude/Johnson dealer don’t do it for you go a Mercury dealer and they will.

    I just looked and heard your video and after about 20 seconds of warming up it leveled out a bit. If it idles good without coughing and seems to run pretty good your close to home. From the video it sounds like you close and it should run there halfway decent. The only thing you can do now is adjust the carb under a load, with the prop turning and on the trailer, and go from there. I do think the points need to be worked on a little but it sounds like it runs ok now, good enough for a lake trip.

    Did you clean and regap the plugs? Pry open the ground prong away from the electrode and clean with an emeryboard, then regap and you should be fine. Don’t just spray carb cleaner on them because it won’t take off the hard bonded carbon from buring, make them nice and shiney, then regap.

    armchairdeity
    Phoenix, AZ, formerly from the NW 'Burbs, Minneapolis, MN, USA
    Posts: 1620
    #1086726

    Hey Dan… I actually have 2 brand-new plugs in there from the local marine shop. Granted, the are Champion, but they’re brand new and they gapped them for me. Not that I couldn’t. I had re-gapped the previous ones, but the electrodes on those we’re down to stubs so I just replaced them

    I did some tweaking on the slow speed needle setting and now she pops off with barely a twitch of the key. Very nice!

    New video:
    post-tune video

    Still a bit to do, but it will have to wait till I get a puller for the flywheel and have a bit more time to work on it.

    Oh, yeah: In that other video I had it at about 1/4 throttle at first… but when you hear it idle down I had gone over and pushed the throttle to minimum. Then the battery died on my phone so I never got to explain what I was showing you.

    dfresh
    Fridley, MN
    Posts: 3053
    #1086738

    Nice dude. Didn’t realize it is a ’79. Same exact motor as on my little 14′ boat. Bet mine goes faster

    I wouldn’t worry about the plug brand, some love Champions, some ALs, some NGK. Also, my ’79 takes the flat plugs which don’t need to be gapped (spark to outside). Which plugs are you using?

    armchairdeity
    Phoenix, AZ, formerly from the NW 'Burbs, Minneapolis, MN, USA
    Posts: 1620
    #1086743

    Is yours tiller or console? The remote setup for this one is very aged… But it still works.

    And I have standard Champion plugs in it… they have a whole rack of them at Robbinsdale Marine. $3.85 ea, I think? Gapped at 0.030…

    Leaving shortly to test run this puppy!

    dfresh
    Fridley, MN
    Posts: 3053
    #1086758

    Mine is an original remote setup. Mine calls for the flat ones. Fleet Farm carrries them for about 2.75 apiece.

    Watch out for rain!

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #1086787

    Jared, if you can see two coils on the outside of the powerhead, under the cover then its electronic spark and theres no points under the flywheel. If the coil wires run up underneath the flywheel then theres points. I watched the new video and that motors still got alot of life left in it, it runs good, you should be able to use it for along time. Check to see where the coils are at. If theres coils on the outside of the powerhead then all you have to do in the future is plugs, plug wires and carb maintainence, good luck out on the water. BTW nice looking boat too, got a cooler of beer ready? I’m glad it runs for ya.

    dfresh
    Fridley, MN
    Posts: 3053
    #1086812

    Hey Dan. I have the same motor. No points on this one, it is a stator/power pack ignition. So Jared, don’t go pulling the flywheel looking for points to clean!

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #1086832

    Ya D I wasen’t sure what motor it was until I seen the video, theres nothing wrong with that motor that a little maintainence wouldn’t fix.

    An outboard engine mechanic told me once that most motors are run just a few hours every year, sometimes every other year or even less. With a 30 year old motor there may be less then 100 hours on it. I got a buddy that bought a mint 2 1/2 horse Johnson from the late 50’s for $200 bucks and he jumped on it.

    A couple months ago I bought a little 6 horse Evinrude for $100 bucks because when I seen it there was hardly any prop wear and then I took off the cover and it looked like it just came off the showroom floor, so I figured there couldn’t be much wrong with it. After running it with the powerhead getting hot I replaced the water pump and it now runs like a sewing machine and is the one on the back of my jonboat right now.

    I bought a real nice 25 horse Evinrude off a guy who bought a bigger motor and it was in the same shape when I bought it, minimal wear for $500 and its an 89 model. I took that off my boat and I got that little Evie on it now, so motors are out there and a good deal.

    Just because its a motor from the 60’s or earlier dosen’t mean that its worn out and its still got very minimal hours on it and runs like it did when it was new.

    Look at all the sheds and garages that have motors in them that haven’t been run in 30 years, I’d buy any of them in a heartbeat. Ive got a 1937 Johnson 3 horse that when I bought it 10 years ago still had the gas in the floatbowl from 1956 when her dad owned the motor and last run it, she inherited it and sold it to me for $200. When I get around to it I’m going to restore it by completely buffing it out on my brothers buffer on a cast iron stand, if I ever do it I’ll post pictures. Its even got the origional sparkplugs that are 13/16th’s with screw on wire keeper nuts on the plugs for the sparkplug wire rings. Just because its an old motor dosen’t mean it dosen’t have most of its life still left in it, dependes on how much its been run.

    armchairdeity
    Phoenix, AZ, formerly from the NW 'Burbs, Minneapolis, MN, USA
    Posts: 1620
    #1086838

    Still got a little tuning to do… she ran great tho. I’m gonna mess with the idle mixture next times have her in the water. I think I can get it better than it is right now.

    Had to give her some throttle to get it started… kept coughing and killing otherwise. It’s interesting to see ow different it behaves in the water than it does with the earmuffs on. But it still kicked off with just a twitch of the key once I figured out where the throttle needed to be for easy starting.

    She won’t troll for long at idle, but with about 3 clicks on the throttle she trolls forever at 1.5-2.5 mph depending on the wind.

    I just wish I could get more than 13.8 mph out of her at wide-open… 15 mph if I’m going with the river. Although even that, considering that the boat weighs 3/4 ton is pretty good. It gets the pontoons up on plane.

    Would a different pitch prop make a difference?

    mossydan
    Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    Posts: 7727
    #1087051

    Ya Jared, if it wants to quit when its shifted into idle Id start with the carburator because the sparks electronic. I’ve cleaned enough carbs to make my first impression as its the carburator. Look at it how it would run with a carburator right out of the box on it. I do know when the carbs clean it can be adjusted and you can hear the idle go up and down easily, because it does what the gas and air flow is supposed to do. I’ve taken carbs off a few times and cleaned them until they were clean, then they ran right. It doesen’t take a whole lot of whatever to throw a carb off.

    Befor you do that check the plug wires because its less involved. Atleast it runs and thats a starting point. Just keep working on it and it will run right. From what your saying I lean twards fine adjustmnets on the carb, via how it ran on the video, it eighter loading up with gas or its adjustments. All the times I’ve back a boat in the water to adjust the carbs under a load it was the carb or carbs. If the plugs are new and theres good gas in the floatbowl then what I’ve found in the past its the carburation, especially if when you adjust the airflow it dosen’t react right. Sorry to say but if the rpm’s don’t respond with a turn or so on the air mix then the carb still needs to be cleaned. It will respond like a new one if its clean. But it could be something elase, I know it gets frustrating but hang in there.

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