Lead core trolling and depth variance

To clarify one thing….im a rookie lead core troller.

So here is the data. Suffix 832 with scatter raps #7 trolling at 2mph and little slower and faster depending on the wind gusts. Depths range from 30ft to 24ft. Leader is about 6ft.

I was going by the data from the challenge on LOW at per color you get 7ft down, so 2 colors would be around 60 on the counter and 14 ft down.

On one clicker i had 90 out 3 colors and getting to the depth of 21 i thought. The other counter i had 4 colors out which should have gotten me to 28 ft roughly.

I was running some big breaks so one side of the boat was slightly shallower running up and down.

However during multiple times, i ran up on a 24ft flat and the deeper line did not hit bottom like i thought it would. To me the calculation so wrong and I’m really getting the standard 5 ft drop of lead core. I did leave out more line to adjust.

Another situation i had was, fishing a weed line, needed to get TD5 down to 12-15. I was leaving out 32-36 on the clicker, which was a color and a bit more if i remember right. Speed was 2mph and i know when i get 9-10ft i had weeds. So i had the dive depth about right there with 2 ft for the lure/leader.

Just trying to understand it better and what other variable I’m missing here, i calculate about 2 feet for any lure unless its a big shad rap or something that might give me more than 2 extra feet.

I don’t have experience with Suffix leadcore. Your analysis does sound correct. I use colors as a starting point and then watch for constant bounces on the rod tip which tells me I am on the bottom. I adjust from there and keep track of the number of feet on the clicker. Not perfect but it works. catching a sauger or two doesn’t hurt with dialing it in.

I would run a longer leader too. In the river or stained water I run a 25′ mono leader. In clear water I run a 50′ leader. One thing I have found with the 832 it is very speed sensitive. For me I figure a 8′ drop per color running about 1.8 – 2.0 mph. If I slow to 1.3 1.5 mph I think it drops 9′-10′.

Depth 4′ running 25′ mono

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Depth 7′ running 50′ of mono

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My leaders are usually about 18′ long. Most of our water here in NE is dirty, but we do have a few areas with clearer water, and I still use the 18′ with success, but a longer leader is something I could look at sometimes I’m sure.

I have used Sufix lead for a few years now, and it’s….ok. Nothing special, but it gets the job done. I’ve noticed when compared to other leadcores, the Sufix doesn’t sink as deep. By the way, I’m talking about just regular Sufix lead, and not 832, for clarification.

Here on the Wisconsin river system, I’ve used 6-8′ leaders for years with excellent success. I much prefer the shorter leader as I believe it makes it much easier to control actual depth at the lure and the use of a short lead doesn’t eliminate the action that only lead core can impart onto the lure.

Other than salmon fishing, I don’t do any open water trolling with lead core. But even when we salmon fish, I never use more than about 15′ leaders.
There is something to be said for the flow of lead core in the water. How it rises and drops on turns is an action that only lead core can impart on a lure. The longer you make the leader, the more you lose that action which only lead core can give.

As much of a science as there is to fishing lead there is a lot of art to it as well… What you’re describing actually happens quite a bit where things don’t seem to add up correctly for some reason and it turns into a process of elimination.

My first two guesses as to what might be happening are 1) You may not have a line counter that is fully spooled up and so even though it said 120′ (4 colors) you may have been closer to 100′ (3.5 colors) The easiest way to check that is to count the colors versus reading the line counter. 2) It is possible that your crankbait isn’t perfectly tuned which even with leadcore could keep it from getting as deep.

And a third possibility was if you were in a location with any current it throws your depths off.

Will

Will Roseberg wrote:

As much of a science as there is to fishing lead there is a lot of art to it as well… What you’re describing actually happens quite a bit where things don’t seem to add up correctly for some reason and it turns into a process of elimination.

My first two guesses as to what might be happening are 1) You may not have a line counter that is fully spooled up and so even though it said 120′ (4 colors) you may have been closer to 100′ (3.5 colors) The easiest way to check that is to count the colors versus reading the line counter. 2) It is possible that your crankbait tuned which even with leadcore could keep it from getting as deep.

And a third possibility was if you were in a location with any current it throws your depths off.

Will

Exactly the first things that came to my mind.

Sounds like you’re right in line with the learning curve of leadcore. I start my line out to where the calculation should be, then reel in or let out more line in 5′ increments until I have the lure where I want it. Once there, you can also control depth with speed.

If you have the I-pilot, you can set cruise for 2.0 for example, then if you need to gain 2′ you can slow to 1.9 or 1.8 without dramatically changing lure function. Opposite if it shallows up on you some. Just a few clicks of the remote can keep you in the zone.

ET

Thanks for all the info so far.

I do believe I have a full spool, don’t think I could or should add anymore.

I didn’t think about the current in the water, even in a lake, however the days we fished lead core were heavy blow days so that could be part of it.

When you guys use long leaders like that…..you get the barrel swivel through the eyelets and into the spool?

I guess with the issues with the twist that I read….I tied some heavy mono about 8 inches to the lead core, then my barrel swivel which my leader is tied to that.

I’ll keep on plugging away on dialing this in.

I’d use fireline for your leader to be honest. 6-10′ is all I’ve ever used and haven’t had to worry. That way you can get dialed in a little easier without worrying about dive curves. Also, the fireline allows you to be able to read your baits better. Can tell if your plug is fouled or if you have a shaker hanging on there. I don’t like a longer mono leader myself as it tangles and coils much quicker and harder to always be figuring in that depth curve.

I like to tie a super small swivel also rather than tie a knot in the line. This helps with line twist, which, if you don’t use the swivel, you will get anytime you foul your plug.

Another thing. I have found that 5′ per foot color at least on standard leadcore, is really only a starting point. Speed, current, waves, etc can all have an effect on the stuff. I am always figuring more like 4′ per color with standard 18lb leadcore, but the best way is to dial it in each time you go out.

FYI
I run with the Sufix Performance, and your right speed makes a huge difference.
Because I needed to have an accurate assessment of depth vs speed I created an App call Lead Core Depth Cal. If you search you can check it out on Google play. I even recently added auto speed color depth display, but haven’t tried it on the water yet. It’s true Sufix 832 sinks deeper, but I’ve heard good and bad things about the quality, and it costs more. Anyway anyone using the Sufix Performance may find the App very useful. Note only Android compatible not Apple devices. Fished Lead Core for years, but finally feel I’m getting a good handle on it. This year I will test for flat line effect, and using crank bait. Let you know what I find late spring 2016.
Enjoy your fishing!

May be a dumb question, but are you running the line behind boards, or long lining right from the rod? Only ask as I had a buddy setting up his rods, working off the depth curve guessing thing – but he wasn’t accounting for the fact that he had the rod tips two feet out of the water. The line wasn’t contacting the water for 15′, or half a color.

I found running it off boards, just learning it on Lake Michigan pulling Suffix any little turn or even bend in my path effected the depth a lot over a constant flat bottom. A slight change in boat speed combined with any even slight direction change from wind, current or me just not going “real” straight was really magnified at the board. A .2 mph change, or slight change in direction pulled the outside board up and I would hit bottom on the inside if running close at all.

This all said, I never really got comfortable pulling spoons and thinking I was at 7′ per color. I did quickly understand a little change in anything, speed or direction was really a big impact on depth.

Good conversation!

Hi Chuck
When I can’t fish I always like talking fishing so I welcome your comments.
Most of what you expressed is why I created my APP, and you present an excellent question, and made some very good points. So some info, all my depths readings were based on colors out, meaning the start of the next color was touching the very surface of the water. To your point 15′ of lead core depending on speed could change total depth 1 to 4 feet. My biggest challenge was speed control. I use a Minn Kota Terrova with I-Pilot (Love the combo) in conjunction with my engine at idle speeds. Basically I turn on the trolling motor combo to steer and hold a straight line while I play the catch. I do this because if I used the trolling motor as the sole driving source the best I can get is one or two outings and then two 27 group batteries need charging. This involved unhooking, a wagon, hand carrying up 14 steep stairs, loading batteries and cart, and setting up charging at home. By using in conjunction with engine I get 6 to 7 outings . At my age I don’t look forward to the recharging process. My trolling process didn’t offer the same constant speed control the trolling motor and I-Pilot are capable of, and as you stated a few tenth mph makes a difference. Even though I feel my speed control was good, it could have been better. Next year I will have access to power at my boat slip and charging batteries will be a breeze. I will fully utilize the trolling motor for better constant speed control and will double the amount of testing . For me it’s a fun project, so if necessary I’ll tweak my App until I’m satisfied. As to slight direction changes, or split seconds change in speed I’ve noted and read that lead core isn’t quick to respond so the effect I believe is very small. However I believe it’s important to hold as straight a line as possible and when making a turn even when it’s wide the effect is substantial. How I deal with turns depends on the targeted area. Mid lake depth I make a wide turn and let the line raise and lower with no danger of bottoming this sometimes can produce a hit. If I’m near lake bottom depth I increase speed until the turn is completed, and line is running straight again. In both cases if I see surface floating weed I bring lines in to insure lures are clean. The slow circling lead core has a gathering effect which I’m sure most have noted. Also for slight changes in speed I just added the GPS feature to my App to average it out which should minimize that even more. Even after taking all this into account as you mentioned there are lots of variables so 100% accuracy is unlikely. However there’s are positive aspects that makes my App a good tool for me. First I have a better assessment of feet per color, and when changing speed for control or better hits I don’t need a chart, or have to be a math wiz to assess lure depth quickly. For me I usually want to be 1 to 4 feet above the fish I’m targeting, so with that range in mind the App tool has a very good chance to be within that range. It’s still a work in process and as one individual pointed out, you should consider it as having possibility until more people have tried it, and that statement sum it up very well.
Enjoyed conversation.