Adverse Possession Question

Anyone here ever have any dealings w/neighbors over “Adverse Possession”?

Here is the scenario:

There is a fence that has divided the property of my land and the neighbors for many many years. The new neighbor has just had his land surveyed and the flag line that they show has the fence being about 1.5ft over too far into his own property.

He came to me last week and said he wasn’t going to make me move the fence, but wanted me to know that it was “techincally” on his property and as long as I would “work with him” if he wants to do stuff to it, things would be good.

He is having the same problem w/some bushes on the other side of his house w/the other neighbor and that neighbor told him that they’ll take it to court over the loss/removal of the bushes (don’t know the details there)

Should I just go along with it as long as he doesn’t get pushy or just I just tell him that b/c of possible adverse posession laws, and that he bought the house thinking that the fence was the property line, that I have a claim to that piece of property as well ??

Thoughts??

All I can suggest is dig up some deeds, even going to previous deeds wherever they are store(courthouse) and see what you can dig up. Sometimes property lines tend to jog around a little bit over time. Fisher Sherry’s parents are dealing with the same thing right now.

Dig up the deed, and if you have any absoulte measuring spots to measure from, you can get a good idea of what is going on… otherwise its going to cost you some coin to get a surveyer out there. I highly suggest measuring yourself 1st to see if it doesnt seem the other surveyers marks were dead on.

Slop, I just did some remodeling and had to find the property lines. It turned out that the neighbors fence is onto my property about the same, 1.5 ft. I could technecially make them move it but to me its not that important, why even bother. I figured it would cost them to move it, it might make some hard feelings and I figured just leave it where it is like its been since it was put up. It sounds to me like hes trying to be a good neighbor. I figured I’ve lived with it this long and it didn’t hurt me or did I need the land so why bother. Whats more important to me is just let things be instead of being so perticular, they’ve been fine so far so why change things. I figure its better to have good neighbors instead of haveing the pencil on the paper all the time. If he has no problem with it then Id leave it be.

If it turns to a trouble issue look up your state laws some states have a squatters law or something similar where if you have used it as yours for over a certain amount of time it’s yours.Usually around 7-10 years.I’ve seen it used on property around creeks and rivers usually where waste ground is now prime recreational property but these laws also apply to land developements in places.

I would suggest getting a lawyer if you think there is going to be a problem. I believe with adverse possession, after a certain time frame, you can claim title to that property. I don’t know the timeframe, but if the fence has been there for 20 years, then you can claim that is your property through adverse possession. If the fence is a couple years old, yeah, he can make you remove it. Not sure the law on him kind of blackmailing you by saying all is good as long as you allow him to do what he wants with it??

Now if you used a surveyor (or the previous owners did) and they messed up the property line, then it would be their responsibility to fix the error. Or if you used a professional installer, it is probably their issue (unless it was your responsibility to mark the property lines). If the fence was a diy project, then you would be on the hook.

In any case, it is a legal problem, so legal = lawyer = $$$$$

I did some checking and I know the fence in question has been up for over 20 years….

The other neighbors already told him they will take him to court over the dispute on the other side of the house…..I don’t think he wants two different court battles going on…..

I just don’t want to lose any rights I might have in the future if things do get out of hand by saying “ok” right now to what he wants.

I say do nothing. The property line isnt moving so he has control over that section of the fence. Consider it his and replace if he decides to tear down which will likely never happen.

Sounds like he needs to mow both sides of the fence now.

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Sounds like he needs to mow both sides of the fence now.

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Good one.

Slop;

Contact your title company, whom you used to purchase your home. They will get you in the right direction of what your rights are. Also, you “might” have some “legal support” given to you from them…….”MIGHT”.

In a nut shell,
off the “top of my head”, I’m thinking that your title company did a plat drawing (not a survey) and that your title company issued you “clean/clear” title that is “insured”.

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and that he bought the house thinking that the fence was the property line, that I have a claim to that piece of property as well ??

Thoughts??

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To my understanding, the only way you could sieze ownership of property if it is abandoned. He currently lives there and more/less was “given” a fence.

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¶8. Under Wis. Stat. §893.25(1) and (2) (1999-2000), 1 a party may gain ownership of real property by adverse possession if there is uninterrupted possession for twenty years and the party “is in actual continued occupation under claim of title, exclusive of any other right” and the property is “[p]rotected by a substantial enclosure” or is “sually cultivated or improved.” The party claiming adverse possession must show that the disputed property was used for twenty years, §893.25(1), in an “open, notorious, visible, exclusive, hostile and continuous [manner], such as would apprise a reasonably diligent landowner and the public that the possessor claims the land as his own.” Pierz v. Gorski, 88 Wis.2d 131, 137, 276 N.W.2d 352 (Ct. App. 1979).

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One last item here Slop;
Being that neither one of you have owned the property for more than 20 years, then Adverse Possession “should not” apply. Also, a “key word” here is continued occupation under claim of title. Again, this would fall at the hands of the title company whom issued you the free/clear title. Or, in his case, his title company.

So, no the land isn’t “yours”.

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I say do nothing. The property line isnt moving so he has control over that section of the fence. Consider it his and replace if he decides to tear down which will likely never happen.

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Property lines can indeed change via adverse possession. Again, I’m no lawyer but you could probably even argue that since he says it is ok he has given up his rights? You would be much better served checking with a lawyer to find out your actual rights.

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Traditional common law provided a method for someone to obtain title to land through use. The common law rules for adverse possession have been codified under both federal and state statutes. A typical statute allows a person to get title to land from the actual owner simply by using the land, out in the open for all to see. For example, your neighbor built a fence on your land with the intention of taking the property, paid property taxes, and you knew about it but did nothing. If this continued for a period of time set by state law, your neighbor may be able to claim this property as his/her own. The theory is that, by not disputing your neighbor’s use of your property through a lawsuit, you, as the actual owner have abandoned your rights to the property. There are several elements needed for adverse possession to result in title:

The length of time required for adverse possession in title varies – it could be as short as a few years or could run for twenty years or more. Typically public entities must establish a longer period of possession than individuals. Some states have adopted a rule which requires the adverse possessor to pay taxes each year on the land.

The possession must be open for all to see.

The possession must be exclusive to him or her (e.g., the fence in the above example, a driveway, road, etc.)

The possession must be hostile to the actual owner of the land.

To gain title to land through adverse possession requires strict compliance with the law, but can have dramatic impact upon land ownership rights.

An encroachment could result in title to your property being transferred to an adverse possessor. Under these circumstances, you might have to bring a lawsuit for trespass in order to prevent your neighbor from getting title to your land through adverse possession.

If you own land, it is important that you do not “sleep on your rights” since you could lose ownership of the land.

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I would be more inclined to follow Gary’s definition since he has the actual WI law where mine is the general law definition.

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I say do nothing. The property line isnt moving so he has control over that section of the fence. Consider it his and replace if he decides to tear down which will likely never happen.

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Sounds like he needs to mow both sides of the fence now.

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I agree on both counts….

Just a reason why this is coming up more often now. (I worked in the survey field before my job now)

If this is a city lot, the blocks and lots were set up by the length of the block divided by the number of lots which in turn your deed might say that your lot for example is 65 ft wide and in reality your lot (after the block is remeasured and divided by the number of lots) might be only 63.5 ft wide along with all the other lots in the block being the same 63.5 ft wide.

The reason for this is back in the stone ages when these lots and blocks were laid out they had very primitive means of measurement and now we have tools to measure long distances down to the nats a$$. And this is causing problems with many of neighbors. But somthing to remember is it is the same situation for everyone on the block, not just one person saying they own 65ft and the rest have what they have.

One thing (I think)that can correct this is a quick claim deed and that takes everyone on the block to share the cost for a surveyer to spilt the whole block and file the results with the city/county or who ever you have to deal with for another small fee, but the key here is everyone has to sign off on the results and be in agreement.

I for one bought my house without checking the property lines.(even being in that field of work) And we all have shared fences but looked at it like if one person complains we all are involved and those fences have been there for longer than yours.

Not knowing when your property was spilt up and by what means this is just a situation that I have seen happen before.

Offer to buy the land, after you insure it is actually his land, maybe he’ll like the idea, and help him with the court costs of the other neighbor.

If you trust his survey, move the fence, be done with it…no issues in the future. Or, just go along with what he’s offered and maybe move it in the future.

BIRDDOG

I know nothing of adverse possesion,can’t offer anything there.
I have on each of the last three properties I owned had an adjoining neighbor claim they owned this that or the other which had been a part of the property that I purchased.I REJECT any survey they offer.I have worked it out between the principal parties or HIRED MY OWN survey done and then square up to fight….or accept my survey.He may be wrong,if so inform him.He may be correct,if so in this instance I’d accept what he has offered.
The worst example is the house I’m currently in.My neighbors on BOTH sides decided to expand there property(squeezing me).One told me he had a survey,blah blah blah.The second told me the row of 60′ pine trees (planted before either of us was born) wasn’t the line.He’d hired a survey,blah blah blah.Neighbor#1 hadn’t hired anything,he had stretched a tape from out in the city street!…He lost,not only was he incorrect he wound up losing about 4′.
Neighbor #2 (prick),hadn’t hired anything.He was using a metal pipe he claimed was the survey mark,had his FATHER-IN-LAW stretch a tape and claim the line was 10’beyond a row of 60’pines.For satisfaction,neighbor #2 now has a 14′ high,32’long garage next to that row of pines(that was the line).
Sorry about the dissertation,the point is hire your own survey.

I know that a survey is $$$ … But so is land, You might want to settle this otherwise maybe one of the jerks will come in with a maintenance clause later (person thinks he ownes your land because he mowed it for 10 years, you were a nice guy and did not say anything about it to be a nice person when come to find out you should have put up a .59 cent no trespassing sign up, now it cost you $10,000 and a week out of work siting in a law office and court having a great time) It might cost you more with a defence lawyer later just to keep your land that you payed good $ for

.02

2K’s

Put up a bigger(taller) fence, 1.5 feet from “his”.

big g