Ukraine

The question was directed at those that don’t agree with the trade.

biggill wrote:

The question was directed at those that don’t agree with the trade.

My take… one prisoner will resume life after a little notoriety and probably won’t bother anyone… the other may cause destruction and cause great harm to many. I think we have to take the crimes/future potential damages into consideration when trading… a petty druggie for a notorious dealer in arms… they win.

biggill wrote:

Even if he was, what does the severity of the crimes have to do with the value of a prisoner?

Do you think it was a fair trade? I mean honestly the man was single handedly responsible for supplying weapons to African countries to make wars and was providing weapons to people who have killed Americans.
Griner had some pot on her.

I don’t think it was a fair trade.

In the spirit of the season and not wanting to get my own thread dusted I’ll refrain.

Do you really think he won’t be one of the most watched people on this planet? Do you really think Russia is going to use him to smuggle more arms? His expertise was useful decades ago, a lot has changed since he’s been in prison. He has no value to anyone, especially Russia. He’ll become a low key celebrity in Russia, that’s about it. Seems like an even trade when you actually consider their value and stop looking at their crimes.

No one has been able to explain his value as a prisoner.

We really have no idea what Russia plans to do with him now. But the potential is still there. I could see them just flat out hanging him and I could see them simply ordering him to go back and do what he did before, sell weapons to terrorists.

biggill wrote:

Do you really think he won’t be one of the most watched people on this planet? Do you really think Russia is going to use him to smuggle more arms? His expertise was useful decades ago, a lot has changed since he’s been in prison. He has no value to anyone, especially Russia. He’ll become a low key celebrity in Russia, that’s about it. Seems like an even trade when you actually consider their value and stop looking at their crimes.

No one has been able to explain his value as a prisoner.

Its not at all about what he MIGHT do, its about what he DID do. That is why he was imprisoned in the first place. They didnt put him there because he MIGHT do something. Your logic for thinking it was a fair trade is completely irrational.

gimruis wrote:

and I could see them simply ordering him to go back and do what he did before, sell weapons to terrorists.

Really? Don’t you think that job takes someone who’s able to fly under the radar? And not get captured?

biggill wrote:

Really? Don’t you think that job takes someone who’s able to fly under the radar?

I’m no FBI Terrorist Specialist, but I’d say he certainly is capable of doing what he did before. Maybe he’s not. I don’t know, and neither do you.

He still had 10 years left on his sentence. He was found guilty in a court of (fair) law here. Griner, although guilty, was clearly sentenced improperly. Russia only did that as a political stunt.

Griner, although guilty, was clearly sentenced improperly

Not according to Russian law.

gimruis wrote:

I’m no FBI Terrorist Specialist, but I’d say he certainly is capable of doing what he did before. Maybe he’s not. I don’t know, and neither do you.

Agreed, then maybe it’s time to stop criticizing the trade.

biggill wrote:

No one has been able to explain his value as a prisoner.

The Merchant of Death? The God of War? Yeah, no idea why it might be good to keep him behind bars. At least there will be another supplier if Biden’s assault weapons ban passes. You must really miss trolling in the offseason Matt, seems that’s your main purpose here of late.

Dutchboy wrote:

Griner, although guilty, was clearly sentenced improperly

Not according to Russian law.

Improperly is the incorrect term. “Wrongfully detained” is the terminology that US officials use.

BigWerm wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Biggill wrote:</div>
No one has been able to explain his value as a prisoner.

The Merchant of Death? The God of War? Yeah, no idea why it might be good to keep him behind bars. At least there will be another supplier if Biden’s assault weapons ban passes. You must really miss trolling in the offseason Matt, seems that’s your main purpose here of late.

That’s the only times he posts. Either trolling or making covid graphs.

BigWerm wrote:

The Merchant of Death? The God of War? Yeah, no idea why it might be good to keep him behind bars.

These aren’t Pokémon cards, or should I say digital Trump trading cards, these are political prisoners.

gimruis wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dutchboy wrote:</div>
Griner, although guilty, was clearly sentenced improperly

Not according to Russian law.

Improperly is the incorrect term. “Wrongfully detained” is the terminology that US officials use.

Wrongfully detained is also wrong. She broke Russian law, doesn’t matter what we think of their laws, she broke it. You can argue the sentence might have been excessive, but again it’s their law. When you burrow down through the emotion and Americanism she broke their law period.

As you guys keep telling me, keep scrolling if you don’t like what I have to say.

biggill wrote:

These aren’t Pokémon cards, or should I say digital Trump trading cards, these are political prisoners.

”Political prisoner”

“Between November 2007 and March 2008, Bout agreed to sell to the FARC millions of dollars’ worth of weapons – including 800 surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), 30,000 AK-47 firearms, 10 million rounds of ammunition, five tons of C-4 plastic explosives, “ultralight” airplanes outfitted with grenade launchers and unmanned aerial vehicles. Bout agreed to sell the weapons to two confidential sources working with the DEA (the “CSs”), who represented that they were acquiring them for the FARC, with the specific understanding that the weapons were to be used to attack U.S. helicopters in Colombia.”

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/international-arms-dealer-viktor-bout-convicted-new-york-terrorism-crimes

biggill wrote:

As you guys keep telling me, keep scrolling if you don’t like what I have to say.

Keep going I haven’t laughed this hard in a long time!!!

Still at it eh gents?

Serious question wouldn’t it be easier for the 6 or 7 of you to just exchange phone numbers or twitter handles and talk politics via text instead of starting a new thread every week with a different name to talk about the same things over and over and over.

Yes I know Dutch I can keep scrolling.
Just thought it may be easier for y’all..

We need a new subforum called Friday at Dutchy’s. It would probably be the most trafficked, for sure more than the ice fishing forum.

BigWerm wrote:

“Between November 2007 and March 2008, Bout agreed to sell to the FARC millions of dollars’ worth of weapons – including 800 surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), 30,000 AK-47 firearms, 10 million rounds of ammunition, five tons of C-4 plastic explosives, “ultralight” airplanes outfitted with grenade launchers and unmanned aerial vehicles. Bout agreed to sell the weapons to two confidential sources working with the DEA (the “CSs”), who represented that they were acquiring them for the FARC, with the specific understanding that the weapons were to be used to attack U.S. helicopters in Colombia.”

Explain like I’m 5 how this makes him valuable to Russia in 2022. Explain how his outdated expertise is valuable in 2022. Explain how his newfound fame makes him a valuable arms smuggler.

Or maybe we can venture into the Wild forum, nobody seems to mind rehashing the same stuff there month after month.

Dutchboy wrote:

Or maybe we can venture into the Wild forum, nobody seems to mind rehashing the same stuff there month after month.

Hey I was trying to get you an entire forum but if you only want 1 thread per year like us then that’s fine too

Friday at Dutchy’s 2023 should be launching soon

biggill wrote:

Explain like I’m 5 how this makes him valuable to Russia in 2022. Explain how his outdated expertise is valuable in 2022. Explain how his newfound fame makes him a valuable arms smuggler.

That’s not the point of his “value” its the crimes he committed. Comparing and convicted arms dealer to a person carrying pot as equals is hilarious.

biggill wrote:

Explain like I’m 5 how this makes him valuable to Russia in 2022. Explain how his outdated expertise is valuable in 2022. Explain how his newfound fame makes him a valuable arms smuggler.

Ok Matty, finish up your chocolate milk. I need you to understand that when you go on timeout/prison it’s not because that provides value to me or anyone else, it’s because you were naughty and need to learn a lesson and pay a price. The length of your timeout is dependent on the severity of your naughtiness. It’s why we have different penalties for arms trafficking and pot possession, so trading someone doing 25 years for arms trafficking for someone on a pot possession charge, that would get 0 time and depending on the state not even a fine in the US, is not an equivalent value.

Also saying someone who did what Bout did (or are you disputing that?), is a political prisoner, rather than an actual criminal rightfully imprisoned, is the most laughable thing I’ve seen on here in a while, and that is quite an accomplishment.

As far as explaining his value to Putin goes, just the fact that Bout’s release was an ongoing goal of Putin is enough for me. Do gangsters stop being gangsters due to time? That’s a new concept to me, so maybe you can explain your reasoning for believing that. Sorry for the big words, I’m sure Dutch can interpret for you.

IDO needs a no holds barred chat room option. I’ve had to exercise some willpower on this thread as well. Been entertaining following along though! Kinda back to original point, does anybody else get the feeling we’re just slowly marching along to much bigger conflict? Referring to Ukraine, not this thread.

Joe Jarl wrote:

Kinda back to original point, does anybody else get the feeling we’re just slowly marching along to much bigger conflict? Referring to Ukraine, not this thread.

I was told the adults are back in charge now, and the Military Industrial complex immediately escalating our involvement in numerous places across the globe is nbd and really just preventing a future entanglement. So we should be good.

Joe Jarl wrote:

Referring to Ukraine, not this thread.

This part actually needed to be said and it’s hilarious. My God you guys on this thread lol.

what would this forum be like without Dutch? Quite a bit different I imagine. Not better or worse just waaaay waaaay different lol.