Ukraine

According to a story on 60 minutes tonight the United States has spent $38 BILLION propping up the war in Ukraine. $13 billion in economic aid and another $38 billion in military aid. What was never mentioned is are these loans or gifts?

Are there strings attached? How long do we supply them? Is it the responsibility of the United States to finance these wars? I understand being part of NATO, but is NATO footing any of the bills?

Just a couple of questions while waiting for the SNF game to start.

Imagine what they could do with that money here, roads you could drive on, no homeless encampments, lower taxes, tons of possibilities just here at home. and just how many times has a foreign country ever paid us back? and I don’t believe Ukraine is part of the UN so what’s the UN’s obligation for any part of the bill?

Ukraine is a UN member according to google.

Beast wrote:

Imagine what they could do with that money here, roads you could drive on, no homeless encampments, lower taxes, tons of possibilities just here at home. and just how many times has a foreign country ever paid us back? and I don’t believe Ukraine is part of the UN so what’s the UN’s obligation for any part of the bill?

UN yes.
NATO no.
Appeasement has never worked out for western democracys in dealing with autocratic nation states.
Ukraine needs to be free and independent od Putin’s Russia.

Pat K wrote:

Ukraine is a UN member according to google.

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Beast wrote:</div>
Imagine what they could do with that money here, roads you could drive on, no homeless encampments, lower taxes, tons of possibilities just here at home. and just how many times has a foreign country ever paid us back? and I don’t believe Ukraine is part of the UN so what’s the UN’s obligation for any part of the bill?

They are not. That is what the War is about.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

They are not. That is what the War is about.

Beast wrote:

and I don’t believe Ukraine is part of the UN so what’s the UN’s obligation for any part of the bill?

Do you guys know the difference between the UN and NATO? This is embarrassing even for an IDO thread

The US is part of NATO which was the only point I made.

The whole Ukrainian deal is a mess, and probably will never know the truth to what’s going on over there. We are fed what they want us to believe. As far as re payment who knows what to believe as far as who’s tied into what in Ukraine. Probably some useful information on that laptop though…

I saw the segment of this on 60 minutes too. The response I thought to be the most interesting in that interview with Janet Yellen was when she was asked “how long are we going to support Ukraine?”

Her response was “as long as is necessary.”

The Ukraine conflict started in 2014 in the Donbas region. Over ten thousand native Russians have been murdered in the area by Ukrainians. Russia finally had enough. I don’t believe war has been officially declared.
The west has used this as a tool to try and take down Russia and politicians fill their pockets with aid.
Oil has always been traded in U.S. dollars. After the U.S. put sanctions on Russian oil it has been traded in other currencies for the first time ever. The sanctions have crushed many European countries as they are reliant on Russian gas and oil.
If the intent of the U.S. is to get into world war 3 they are doing a great job. Don’t poke the bear. The bear has been the only adult in the room thankfully.
He is doing what a true leader does and that is look after the people in his own country.

Nevermind

Much of the aid we give to Ukraine are weapons, munitions and machinery that we have little or no use for. Much of it is well past it’s designed life and cannot be used unless there is some sort of national emergency. It has sped up the process for turning over our supply and replacing it with newer technology. Much of the money being spent is going to manufacturing new weapons, munitions and machinery right here in the US. The company I work for is benefitting directly from this.

What Russia is doing is straight up imperialism and it is a huge risk for the world. Letting them have their way with Ukraine is a bigger risk for WW3 than keeping them in the fight.

How long are we going to support the war in Finland?

Better than 30 Minutes…
I spent 30 minutes talking with Nick Schlesser this afternoon about pool 4 fishery, st crox, etc. Awesome fella. Fishery is in good hands. Now, if we can keep public opinion from changing how we manage our resources!

MnPat1 wrote:

The Ukraine conflict started in 2014 in the Donbas region. Over ten thousand native Russians have been murdered in the area by Ukrainians. Russia finally had enough. I don’t believe war has been officially declared.
The west has used this as a tool to try and take down Russia and politicians fill their pockets with aid.
Oil has always been traded in U.S. dollars. After the U.S. put sanctions on Russian oil it has been traded in other currencies for the first time ever. The sanctions have crushed many European countries as they are reliant on Russian gas and oil.
If the intent of the U.S. is to get into world war 3 they are doing a great job. Don’t poke the bear. The bear has been the only adult in the room thankfully.
He is doing what a true leader does and that is look after the people in his own country.

MnPat1 wrote:

The Ukraine conflict started in 2014 in the Donbas region. Over ten thousand native Russians have been murdered in the area by Ukrainians. Russia finally had enough. I don’t believe war has been officially declared.
The west has used this as a tool to try and take down Russia and politicians fill their pockets with aid.
Oil has always been traded in U.S. dollars. After the U.S. put sanctions on Russian oil it has been traded in other currencies for the first time ever. The sanctions have crushed many European countries as they are reliant on Russian gas and oil.
If the intent of the U.S. is to get into world war 3 they are doing a great job. Don’t poke the bear. The bear has been the only adult in the room thankfully.
He is doing what a true leader does and that is look after the people in his own country.

HO-LY CHIT, MAN.

None of the Western World has the stones for a war in modern times with the technological advances and the damage that can be done. Instead, things are conducted remotely – mainly by financing global interests. The problem I see is that the United States has a reputation for paying more than its share as it’s getting to a point that financially jeopardizes our own well being. The firehose of funding to Ukraine needs to be dialed back.

Putin doesn’t give a sh** about what other nations think nor what happens to those who serve in his country…which gives him a unique advantage in any global conflict. His military and leadership is far from elite as they run into obstacles with Ukraine and their own outdated infrastructure, but their inability to walk away at this point will guarantee they persevere and lie about defeats along the way as they save face. Putin’s Russia is like the rat that chews its limbs off repeatedly to get out of traps and keeps coming back for more.

all I’m saying is it’s allot of resources we’re using up. just think of how much more we could of sent if he hadn’t left it all in Afghanistan. but this alterative still is better than the U.S. putting boots on the ground and it’s still going to cost the taxpayer no matter how you cut the cake.

Do you guys know the difference between the UN and NATO? This is embarrassing even for an IDO thread
[/quote]
I do, and it was my mistake, before the war started, Ukraine was toying with the idea of joining NATO, that was a part of the reason for the Russian invasion.

I was incorrect. I meant NATO

Ukraine is such a boring topic. Can’t we talk about but Hunter or drag story time or prisoner swaps or Ye or something?

“If the prosecutors not fired in 6 hours you’re not getting the money”…. “well sonofabich, he got fired!”

Its too early in the week/day for me to get wound up about this chip shot example of….oh never mind.

Dutchboy wrote:

According to a story on 60 minutes tonight the United States has spent $38 BILLION propping up the war in Ukraine. $13 billion in economic aid and another $38 billion in military aid

We have given over $68 Billion, and are proposing another $37.7B, so over $105B total. Don’t ask where it goes, as most is unaccounted for, and asking for any sort of accountability means you’re pro-Putin or something. Anyone know how much is funneling thru Burisma?

http://www.csis.org/analysis/aid-ukraine-explained-six-charts

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F–king HILARIOUS!!!!!

I’m not defending Russia in anyway here, but I kind of get why Russia did what they did. The Ukraine was getting a lot of pressure to join NATO ( Yes I know the Difference between NATO and the UN ) Having a NATO country right next door along one of your borders would be scary to them. Think of it as how the US would feel if Canada and Mexico were not Allies of the US. I don’t think we would like it much either.

fishthumper wrote:

I’m not defending Russia in anyway here, but I kind of get why Russia did what they did. The Ukraine was getting a lot of pressure to join NATO ( Yes I know the Difference between NATO and the UN ) Having a NATO country right next door along one of your borders would be scary to them. Think of it as how the US would feel if Canada and Mexico were not Allies of the US. I don’t think we would like it much either.

Ukraine wasn’t being pressured. They were pressuring NATO. So if Mexico decides to form an alliance with Russia there would be a justification us to invade them and take over control of their country? We didn’t invade Cuba.

I guess I fail to see what risk Ukraine poses to Russia, with or without NATO. Ukraine has been trying to get into NATO for a very long time. There’s a reason they haven’t been accepted. This is precisely why. Like I said earlier, this is straight up imperialism by Russia. This attack was also to try and weaken NATO but it failed miserably. Putin knew that he had the main oil and gas lifeline to Europe and thought it would start up conflicts within Europe. It failed so miserably that two more countries will likely be added and one on the Russian border.

There’s much more than simply NATO encroachment on Russia. Ukraine has huge lithium deposits, they are the breadbasket of Europe much like the plains states here. They aren’t the main reasons for invasion but it’s pretty clear it isn’t NATO.

MnPat1 wrote:

The Ukraine conflict started in 2014 in the Donbas region. Over ten thousand native Russians have been murdered in the area by Ukrainians. Russia finally had enough. I don’t believe war has been officially declared.
The west has used this as a tool to try and take down Russia and politicians fill their pockets with aid.
Oil has always been traded in U.S. dollars. After the U.S. put sanctions on Russian oil it has been traded in other currencies for the first time ever. The sanctions have crushed many European countries as they are reliant on Russian gas and oil.
If the intent of the U.S. is to get into world war 3 they are doing a great job. Don’t poke the bear. The bear has been the only adult in the room thankfully.
He is doing what a true leader does and that is look after the people in his own country.

Doing what a true leader does and sending his untrained, forced… excuse me conscripted forces to a neighboring country with no true reason, brutalizing mostly a civilian population, while in return getting stomped into the dirt by western tech + Ukrainian forces so bad it’s miraculous Putin has taken “a leave of absence” if you catch my drift. The bear is getting dominated, not poked. Is it lining the pockets of major players involved, you bet it is. You born yesterday and just learn world powers take advantage of world events?

Good times on IDO with MN Dimitry giving his half cent on war

biggill wrote:

Ukraine wasn’t being pressured. They were pressuring NATO.

I guess I fail to see what risk Ukraine poses to Russia, with or without NATO. Ukraine has been trying to get into NATO for a very long time.

There’s much more than simply NATO encroachment on Russia. Ukraine has huge lithium deposits, they are the breadbasket of Europe much like the plains states here. They aren’t the main reasons for invasion but it’s pretty clear it isn’t NATO.

Gill, where did you learn that Ukraine has been trying to get into NATO for a very long time? From what I understand this is fairly new (2014). Before this Ukraine’s government and their people had little interest in belonging to NATO. Am I wrong??

Ukraine applied in 2008.