Years ago i was told that Sta-bil had problems with jelling and to use Sea Foam. recently I purchased a new snow blower and the guy in the shop showing me how to use it said do not use Sea Foam as they had blowers and lawn mowers coming in with problems from Sea Foam. Does anyone know the real story of what product is best? Are the marine products a better choice all round?
Engine experts please set me straight.
I’m no expert by any means but I have been using Stabil for over 25 years with no issues whatsoever in any motor……
I also use Sea-Foam but for different uses…..no issues also..
FWIW
I don’t know if I can set you straight but I’ll tell you what I have found over the years in the marine field. I have seen both of them work well at stabilizing but I have seen some issues. I have cleaned/replaced fuel systems from gelled stabil, normally caused from over treating. Sea foam is alcohol so if you are like me and try to keep alcohol free fuel in your life machines and yard equipment it doesn’t make sense to me to then put it in your fuel. Because it is alchhol based you can end up with problems from it cleaning the fuel system when it’s in the system. The stabalizers I have found that do the best job stabilizing with out causing any other issues have been kerosene based. At our shop for long term storage we use Yamaha fuel conditioner and knock on wood never seen an issue with stale fuel.
Hope that helps a little.
Where some are experiencing some problems with rubber engine components most are saying it is ethanol related. If you use gas with any ethanol and then add sea foam you will be adding more ethanol as sea foam has ethanol in it. I would then reccomend sta bil as it has no ethanol. If not using ethanol fuel then the small amount of alcohol in sea foam should have no adverse effect.
I have been using a non ethanol stabilizer from evinrude.
With the exception of our motor vehicle, everything that runs on gas in the garage or on the water runs on premium non-oxy that gets some marine stabil added. I don’t add the dosage per gallon that’s recommended as I’d go broke buying the stuff. I haven’t had a single issue for the last 5 years of doing so. At the end of the summer I pour fuel from the boat’s tank into a regular can and burn it up in the snow blower.
In season, everything starts very easy. I just think that the non-oxy fuel is a better choice all around and doesn’t need as much stabilizer as the generic regular served up in this fine state under mandate. When I travel out of state and have the option to use non-oxy at the pumps I pay the extra and use it because I get way better fuel economy using it. I firmly believe that eliminating small engine issues starts with the fuel you purchase in the first place.
Are the marine products a better choice all round?
Engine experts please set me straight.
A better choice for what, exactly? Sea Foam and Sta-bil are two completely different products for two different uses. What are you trying to accomplish?
There is so much misinformation and urban legends out there about ethanol and fuel additives it’s hard to know where to begin.
Sea Foam is a fuel system detergent. It loosens and dissolves varnish and other fuel system residues. It can open partially clogged injectors and remove varnish and residue that is causing a carb not to function properly. It can also help an engine more easily burn fuel with slight water contamination.
No engine needs Sea Foam in the fuel all the time. Brian is correct, Sea Foam can attract water. In addition, engines are not tested to run with high concentrations of detergents on a constant basis.
Sta-bil, on the other hand is a fuel stabilizer. It allegedly extends the storage life of gasoline and, again, allegedly helps prevent some kinds of ethanol-related fuel issues.
So a couple of things. First, if your goal is simply making sure the fuel in your tank will be ok to use next season and if you are using true Non Oxygenated fuel, then nothing is required as far as additives and nothing should be added. Non-Ox gas has a storage life that is greater than the winter months, so there is no reason why you need to add anything.
If you are having fuel-related engine problems, a treatment of Sea Foam might help. Or it might not. But constant use of Sea Foam may damage your engine.
If you have gasoline in your tank that has ethanol, you can use Sta-bil, but only in the recommended amount. Adding more, again, can cause problems.
The bottom line is that all this gunk, goo, and snake oil should never be used on an “every tank” basis. There are a couple of myths that are driving guys to do this, however.
First, understand that NO, repeat NO chemical treatment can “remove” or “eat” water that has contaminated fuel. It is chemically impossible. Water can ONLY be removed from fuel through mechanical separation. This is a fact of physics.
Secondly, no chemical can reverse phase separation if it occurs. Weather or not any additive can prevent phase separation and to what degree and under what conditions is highly debatable at best.
The bottom line is that the best way to prevent fuel contamination is to buy Non-Ox fuel, run a good fuel filter AND a good water separator (they are NOT the same thing), and use fuel within a few months of buying it.
Grouse
Thanks guys for your replys. Grouse your information is exactly what I was looking for. I was putting Sea Foam in the tanks in fall instead of Sta-bil. Looks like I was told exactly the wrong advice. I will now be useing Sta-bal marine grade for the winter storage. I have 4 stk outboards, utv, and snowmobile. I didn’t have any problems but that could be just dumb luck. I try to use non-ethenol gas but don’t always have that option.
I used to use stabil until I toured the largest fire dept in Wash County and they showed me all the emergency equipment they had on standby that rarely got used. They swore by Seafoam. I have been using it ever since. Maybe I’ll swing by there again and see if they are still using it. That kind of experience speaks volumes.
Another product to consider is Star Tron fuel treatment. Been using it for a few years with good results, can also be used in addition to Sta-bil.
There is so much misinformation and urban legends out there about ethanol and fuel additives it’s hard to know where to begin.
Sea Foam is a fuel system detergent. It loosens and dissolves varnish and other fuel system residues. It can open partially clogged injectors and remove varnish and residue that is causing a carb not to function properly. It can also help an engine more easily burn fuel with slight water contamination.
No engine needs Sea Foam in the fuel all the time. Brian is correct, Sea Foam can attract water. In addition, engines are not tested to run with high concentrations of detergents on a constant basis.
Sta-bil, on the other hand is a fuel stabilizer. It allegedly extends the storage life of gasoline and, again, allegedly helps prevent some kinds of ethanol-related fuel issues.
So a couple of things. First, if your goal is simply making sure the fuel in your tank will be ok to use next season and if you are using true Non Oxygenated fuel, then nothing is required as far as additives and nothing should be added. Non-Ox gas has a storage life that is greater than the winter months, so there is no reason why you need to add anything.
If you are having fuel-related engine problems, a treatment of Sea Foam might help. Or it might not. But constant use of Sea Foam may damage your engine.
If you have gasoline in your tank that has ethanol, you can use Sta-bil, but only in the recommended amount. Adding more, again, can cause problems.
The bottom line is that all this gunk, goo, and snake oil should never be used on an “every tank” basis. There are a couple of myths that are driving guys to do this, however.
First, understand that NO, repeat NO chemical treatment can “remove” or “eat” water that has contaminated fuel. It is chemically impossible. Water can ONLY be removed from fuel through mechanical separation. This is a fact of physics.
Secondly, no chemical can reverse phase separation if it occurs. Weather or not any additive can prevent phase separation and to what degree and under what conditions is highly debatable at best.
The bottom line is that the best way to prevent fuel contamination is to buy Non-Ox fuel, run a good fuel filter AND a good water separator (they are NOT the same thing), and use fuel within a few months of buying it.
Grouse
Very nice Mr. Grouse. There is also a defined explanation to why, and in what sequence you add 2 cycle oil to gas and why to none ethanol.
Cudos!
I’ve never heard of an engine damaged by seafoam.
I’ve had gas in cans go bad but it does sit more than “the winter months” (if nothing is added to it.)
Buy a preserver for ethanol of that is what you use.
I used to use stabil until I toured the largest fire dept in Wash County and they showed me all the emergency equipment they had on standby that rarely got used. They swore by Seafoam. I have been using it ever since. Maybe I’ll swing by there again and see if they are still using it. That kind of experience speaks volumes.
A lot of people swear by a lot of things. That doesn’t mean that they actually know if they work or not. For all they know, dancing butt naked around the equipment during a full moon could have the same effect as adding that Sea Foam.
Sea Foam is one of the better fuel system cleaners out there. But it is what it is, a detergent. Unless you have a problem that a fuel system detergent can solve, you might as well be pouring extra virgin olive oil in the tank.
Grouse
Sea Foam is one of the better fuel system cleaners out there. But it is what it is, a detergent.
Agree completely….
Anther detail worth paying attention to, if you do not go through a can of conditioner like stabile soon enough, it can and does go bad sitting. There is a date on it, and that is if stored in good, un-opened condition. Buy small containers if you are not using fast enough.
Leave a bottle sit long enough, and it gets very thick and nasty.
I make a huge effort to run non-ethanol fuel in anything besides my vehicle, particularly if it is not going to be used quickly.
Where some are experiencing some problems with rubber engine components most are saying it is ethanol related. If you use gas with any ethanol and then add sea foam you will be adding more ethanol as sea foam has ethanol in it. I would then reccomend sta bil as it has no ethanol. If not using ethanol fuel then the small amount of alcohol in sea foam should have no adverse effect.
I have been using a non ethanol stabilizer from evinrude.
I know Sea Foam is a highly refined petroleum based product. I’m not sure how much, if any, alcohol is in it.
Grouse is right about all the misinformation about engine treatments. I think it would be interesting to reach out to a couple of the companies mentioned and see if they wouldn’t be interested in a doing a Q & A about the best uses for their respective products.
^^ Great idea!
It’s cold dancing butt naked around my boat on winter full moons.
If you look at sea foams msds, material safety data sheet on their Web site it lists an ingredient IPA, isopropyl alcohol, up to 20% by volume.
How does alcohol “damage” my motor you may ask?
1, alcohol degrades and eventually destroys natural rubber. In older motors and fuel systems the rubber components, engine deals, carb parts, fuel lines, ect, made of natural rubber will degrade when in contact with alcohol. Newer motors and their associated parts now use a synthetic rubber called Viton. So, in newer systems rated for alcohol fuels you are good…as long as the alcohol portion of the fuel doesn’t become overly contaminated with water. Also in older motors with cork floats the cork is coated in shellac, alcohol dissolves shellac. Once the shellac coating is compromised the fuel will “waterlog” the float.
2, pure gas is more denser than alcohol gas blends. Most fuel systems either carburated or efi meter fuel by volume. Adding alcohol to fuel results in a leaner burning motor as the percentage of alcohol increases. Get too lean and you will loose performance and or eventually fry the motor.
There are other concerns, but this will give you some food for thought. Alcohol in fuel is a reality for alot of us. Sometimes it is as minor as adjusting the fuel circuit, sometimes you need to buy a newer motor, while there are products out there that help enhance the longevity of fuel, none can remove the alcohol and it’s effects.
Do a search online. You’ll see what people have been seeing for many years.
It’s obvious to me that Seafoam is a good fuel stabilizer.
“Seafoam and Stabil both have the basic ingedients of fuel stabilization: Alchohol and Naptha. Both remove moisture – which is the main cuplrit in tanks that sit for long periods. Get rid of the moisture and it helps keep fuel “pure”. Naptha (specific) keeps chemicals of many types from changing/degrading over time – thus, stabilizing.
The light oils keep seals pliable, parts moving and deposits from sticking – which makes everything better in the spring.”
^^ Great idea!
It’s cold dancing butt naked around my boat on winter full moons.
But NOT cold enough to deter it!
I use Stabil every fall when I put things to bed for the winter.
Two outboards,lawn tractor. I run everything else down,log splitter, saws etc… and fill with fresh fuel and half the recomended dose of sea foam and and run for a bit every spring. I’ve never had a problem. I change the fuel/water separator every other year and fuel filter in the boats every three.
Do a search online. You’ll see what people have been seeing for many years.
It’s obvious to me that Seafoam is a good fuel stabilizer.“Seafoam and Stabil both have the basic ingedients of fuel stabilization: Alchohol and Naptha. Both remove moisture – which is the main cuplrit in tanks that sit for long periods. Get rid of the moisture and it helps keep fuel “pure”. Naptha (specific) keeps chemicals of many types from changing/degrading over time – thus, stabilizing… ”
Factually, this is not quite correct. I point this out not as a ha-ha, I’m right/you’re wrong, but rather to clarify one of the broad misconceptions that is out there about fuel additives.
Alcohol does not “remove” or directly “get rid of” water from fuel. No chemical can do this, water can only be removed via mechanical separation.
Alcohol actually is hydrophilic, which means it ATTRACTS water. Which is actually how it can help us as an additive.
When you add alcohol to fuel that has become contaminated with water, the water bonds to the alcohol. The idea is then the water is then dragged along into the combustion process by the alcohol and is flashed off as steam. Game over for the water, but it was not really the alcohol that “got rid of the water”, it was the combustion process. Alcohol just dragged the water along.
So with that description, we can pretty clearly see the problems. First, there are limits to how much water can be handed by the alcohol in this manner, and secondly, the more alcohol you introduce, the more hydrophilic the fuel becomes, so you can actually create a problem or make it worse by adding additives without having the problem that they solve. The benefit has to outweigh the cost, in other words.
You are correct, there are other additives that can be beneficial.
Grouse
Seafoam has a better flavor. 
+1
Seafoam has a better flavor.
I’m not a fan of the smell of Sea Foam when it burns, it produces a terrible smell. It’s not unlike that brand of super-cheap 2 stroke oil that Canadian outfitters were so fond of some years ago. When burned it smelled like rancid cat p!ss. And of course they always mixed it extra strong to prevent “engine damage”, so it was like two rancid cats having a p!ssing contest. I’m sure there are guys here who will know exactly the brand that I mean.
And here I want to confess that as a sick joke, I actually bought a bottle of that crap to play a prank on a fellow forum member. I mixed his 100:1 Merc with the Canadian CrapMaster oil at 32:1.
He was actually driven off the lake by the rancid cat p!ss smell of his own outboard. I know, I know, that’s really twisted, the fishing equivalent of being driven out of your own bed because you can’t stand your own chili-powered f@rts.
Grouse
Anyone use Amsoil Gasoline Stabilizer and or Quickshot?
The one good thing that has come from this thread is that the amount of misinformation being shared authoritatively as credible info has Sea Foam interested in considering a Q and A.
Here’s a brief response from Sea Foam after I emailed them the link.
· 100% of SFMT comes out of a can of crude oil. All 3 ingredients dissolve fuel residues, 2 ingredients flash in the combustion chamber while the majority of oil does not burn and delivers cleaning and lubricity all the way out the tailpipe. All 3 will not allow oxidation/ residue formation to occur (because oxidized fuel cannot survive around SFMT).
· SFMT shares identical nature to gasoline and diesel fuels – Impossible to cause harm. You can run a diesel rig coast-to-coast on 100% SFMT.
· NO detergent whatsoever.
· The minority amount of IPA is for solvency and preserving ignition vapors. It’s also pure/ unsaturated IPA that’s more like petroleum oil (because it is). No one else uses high quality/ pure IPA because it’s costly. Has barely anything in common with ethyl alcohol (grain derived, corrosive). There isn’t a combustion engineer alive who doesn’t marvel at pure IPA.
Which brings me back to this statement made early on in the discussion.
There is so much misinformation and urban legends out there about ethanol and fuel additives it’s hard to know where to begin.
I think it would be very interesting to get an engineer from both brands involved so we can get the straight scoop. We all rely heavily on our internal combustion engines. Having a true understanding of what fuel additives do and don’t do seems worthwhile. I’ll pursue the opportunity and see if I can’t make it a reality.
Heres an example:
Three guys: myself, my Brother and a buddy. We all three have outboards, lawn mowers, ice augers and more. I am the only one that uses SFMT religiously for the last 25+ years. I have never had a single engine problem related to fuel. I cannot tell you how many fuel problems the others have had because I stopped counting quite some time ago. My Brothers boat alone has been in the shop at least 3-4 times where they went through the entire fuel system and replace all the fuel. Now does this mean that SFMT is the cure all? Absolutely not but it tells me that I would rather put in SFMT and possibly not have the problems the other two have had. Just my experience that I thought I would share.
I stand corrected, sea foam has no ethanol in it, but it does have isopropyl alcohol in it. This info is from sea foams own website in their msds disclosures. IPA is an alcohol derived from propane which is a hydrocarbon.
To me an IPA is a tad too bitter, I enjoy an unfiltered wheat much more
Don’t get me started on rice or wheat in beer, only barley. Give me Rogue Breweries Dead Guy Ale and you will see a happy, happy man.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
