Shotshells, chokes, and going dogless

I’d be very curious to start a little poll and learn from members what their go-to, most preferred shotshell configuration is, lead AND steel, for wild pheasants (not game farms birds). Looking for length, gauge, FPS, ounces, and shot size. Short of walking into Fleet Farm and picking up a box of “pheasant loads”, if you can even find them, is getting confusing. A look-see on federalpremium.com yielded 37 different options! Some are high brass, some are high velocity, etc. And of course choke selection is important as well.
And lastly, for you guys who don’t have the missed blessing that is owning a sporting dog, and you mostly just hunt with your buddies who do (smart), is it at all worthwhile to try to kick up birds when you’re hunting solo? I know it’s always worthwhile to be out hunting vs. sitting on the couch, I just mean worthwhile in terms of even seeing one fly. I’d think the stealth aspect could be an asset in that approach.

I use a 12 gauge Benelli, IC (Improved Cylinder) choke, and Federal Prairie Storm in 2 3/4 inch shells #6 size shot (lead). I will also use Wing Shok when I cannot find PS. These are the only two types of ammo I use because they are both 1500 fps. The velocity is very important to me. Sometimes I don’t even have to lead a bird when it flushes because the BB’s get there so quick. I only hunt private land so I don’t have to use steel (thankfully), and I haven’t hunted before mid November in a decade.

For years I used to hunt either solo or with 1 other person without a dog. I still harvested roosters regularly. Probably more than most pheasant hunters to be honest. You have to hunt different types of habitat if you don’t have a dog. I will tell you first hand experience that I would rather hunt without a dog than with a poorly trained one. I’ve been around too many dogs that didn’t listen and chewed up birds into hamburger.

I don’t overthink it.

28″ 12g with an improved or modified choke (I just went and looked, and I have an improved in there now). I shoot lead when I can–lately, I have been shooting Fiochi Golden Pheasant in #5 (2 3/4″). I also like Federal Prairie Storm. I honestly don’t think it matters a whole lot (unless you’re dogless, in which case you’d better hope they’re dead when they hit the ground :)).

I hunted my first few years dogless. It can be done, but you’re going to see fewer birds, for sure. Lucky for me, I love dogs, so getting a bird dog was a no brainer for us.

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I hunt mostly public land in Iowa where steel shot is required, I use Winchester Blindside #2 out of skeet and IC. Can’t shoot under 15 yards but it opens nicely after that. Took down a rooster yesterday at a solid 40-50 yards. DOA.

12ga 28″ with IC. I only use Kent 3″ #5 bismuth because I can’t be bothered to switch shells between a WMA and a WPA and steel sucks. The first two times I went this year I accidentally left skeet tube in instead of IC and although I never missed they weren’t dropping dead like usual

If I didn’t have dogs I’d just be a grouse hunter instead.

I run 2 dogs. Federal #4 fast game loads or PS. In steel I use #2. I use a M or IM choke 28 and 30 beretta autos, depends on the day but I prefer the swing on the 28 for pheasant. Hunting solo works it just sucks getting dead birds out of a pond in November.

I take two similar guns. One I use where steel is required. Imp cyl with 3″ 4 shot. The other where lead is allowed mod choke with #5 or #4 2 3/4″ shells. Early season with dogs leans toward closer shots so imp cyl is a good choice. You can always change if shots are trending long. I’ve Lazer beamed some long shots with full choke but finding them can be more difficult in a big field so I don’t do that anymore.

Dog-less for grouse is a lot more productive than for pheasant imo. Both in terms of getting birds in the air (you can usually see grouse going slow and methodical, and they will fly when you get too close whereas you walk over/past a lot of pheasants imo), and retrieving them.

BigWerm wrote:

Dog-less for grouse is a lot more productive than for pheasant imo. Both in terms of getting birds in the air (you can usually see grouse going slow and methodical, and they will fly when you get too close whereas you walk over/past a lot of pheasants imo), and retrieving them.

Totally agree. For years I wouldn’t even take a dog Grouse hunting and now only in certain scenerios. I can’t imagine hunting pheasants without a dog. It can done but they tend to hold and need to be kicked up.

When I hunted without a dog for years, I found that the stop and go method worked the best. Pheasants will often freeze when they hear you approaching but if you stop for a period of time, they get nervous and then flush. It generally just takes a more methodical approach than if you have a dog. Fresh snow helped too then you could see tracks.

Nice Fella wrote:

October 29, 2020 at 2:21 pm#1983662
I’d be very curious to start a little poll and learn from members what their go-to, most preferred shotshell configuration is, lead AND steel, for wild pheasants (not game farms birds). Looking for length, gauge, FPS, ounces, and shot size.

20 gauge, #5 3-inch Fiocchi Golden Pheasant or Federal Premium.

I generally shoot a modified choke with the 20, or if using the o/u, I shoot IC/mod or if windy, mod/full.

Back in the late 80s or early 90s when I first tried these loads, I was sold after one box. The plated shot penetrated notably better than plain lead, and I believe it breaks heads and necks, resulting in far more stone-dead-in-the-air birds that land like a lawn dart.

IMO, if the bird didn’t politely die when hit with either of these 2 loads, it was on me. I still haven’t found the load that will make up for my poor shooting.

Grouse

When I was making trips to SD I was just using garden variety type stuff. 12ga, 2-3/4″, #6 lead, 1-1/4oz, 1200-1300 fps. I also have some #5s. Was probably shooting modified. We rarely hunted WPAs so I only had a token amount of steel. I see I have a mix of #2s & #3s.

Never hunted under a dog in SD. Mainly only hunted small cover like road ditches, minimum maintenance roads and pocket sloughs. Was able to flush birds. In the early years when we hunted MN a dog was a must. Going solo I think the best advice for any upland bird is to start-stop-zig zag-pause. I think the birds get nervous when you stop or change directions.

Do yourself a favor and shoot something like a Fiocchi Golden Pheasant high velocity or Federal Premium Wing Shocks in 1 3/8oz. I shoot 5’s until late season, then it’s 4’s. Prairie Storms are also an option, but you should probably pattern the above loads out of your gun and see if it likes one load over the others. Next to a dog, the above loads are the most important part of getting your birds in the bag after you drop them. Seriously, the above loads are a big help when you want to avoid runners. Chokes – I stick with modified. I’m a public land hunter and 40-50 yard shots are sometimes all I get. If they get up close, just let them get out a bit. 12 guage only. Steel – #3 duck loads.

I shoot a 20ga with IC choke. I like Winchester Blindside #5. As for the dog, give me the choice between a gun and a dog. Dog every time. If you do go out solo stick to cover edges (cattle slough,field fence lines, hill draws). Just like fishing 90% of the birds are in 20% of the cover.

12ga sx3 wad wizard terror .675 choke 3″ 4s or 2 3/4 5s
1 1/8oz steel (lead not recommended for choke)
Speed and density kill in my experience in waterfowl and upland
Hate crippled birds
No bird dog anymore unfortunately

If I can find them the Winchester Rooster XRs are amazing. If I’m not hunting at game farm I’ll will be 3″ shells. Normally I only hunt wild bird late in the season so I will try to find the biggest shot size in lead.

tegg wrote:

When I was making trips to SD I was just using garden variety type stuff. 12ga, 2-3/4″, #6 lead, 1-1/4oz, 1200-1300 fps

Whaaaaaaaaat? A 12 gauge? Visigoth. Vandal. Why not just shoot them with a bazooka and get them really dead? Your sub-gauge union card will be revoked tomorrow.

To redeem yourself, you need to buy that 20 gauge SXS. And as long as you have one, can I shoot it to see how I like it?

Grouse

I’ve been a big fan of the Fiocchi Golden Pheasant, 12ga, 2 3/4″, #5’s, 1 3/8oz load, at 1,485fps. I run IC and Mod chokes on the O/U. Only problem I’ve had with this setup is that you can really tear up a bird if you’re not careful (shooting them too close). I’ve also started carrying #4 Black Cloud if there’s any chance of hitting a WPA. The #4’s are 3″, 1 1/4oz, 1,450fps and I’ve never noticed an issue knocking birds down with these.

1450-1500 fps 2 3/4″ 1 3/8 oz #5’s, or 1500 fps 3″ 1 5/8 oz #4’s for lead on private land. Federal Upland black box (used to be orange box) or Winchester Super Pheasant. I don’t mind spending $30/box when I’m confident in the pattern and penetration.
for steel, 3″ or 3.5″ #2’s or #1’s. Pretty much whatever I’ve been shooting mallards with in the fields is what I’m shooting roosters with on public land.

I don’t use any loads with flight control wads, as I shoot at Patternmaster EXT choke.

snelson223 wrote:

If I can find them the Winchester Rooster XRs are amazing. I

I use the Winchester Longbeard XR for turkey hunting and they are vastly ahead of standard traditional turkey ammo because of the long range they have. I know they came out with Rooster XR shortly thereafter but I’ve never made myself try it. Part of the issue is the price tag and the fact is that they only sell it in boxes of 10 like they do for turkey ammo. And usually I go through 1 shell during turkey season whereas I’d be going through 4 or 5 boxes of Rooster XR during pheasant season!

TheFamousGrouse wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>tegg wrote:</div>
When I was making trips to SD I was just using garden variety type stuff. 12ga, 2-3/4″, #6 lead, 1-1/4oz, 1200-1300 fps

Whaaaaaaaaat? A 12 gauge? Visigoth. Vandal. Why not just shoot them with a bazooka and get them really dead? Your sub-gauge union card will be revoked tomorrow.

To redeem yourself, you need to buy that 20 gauge SXS. And as long as you have one, can I shoot it to see how I like it?

Grouse

I was trying to think if I brought my 16ga out to SD. I have used it for later season grouse. I may have primarily used the 12 because the spare may have been a 12. Also, without a dog the 12 would have offered a better punch.

I may have something in the works to add a 20 to the collection. I would then be set with a 28/20 for smaller options and 20 3″/16/12 for larger options. Perhaps a little overkill on the overlap but the 20 will offer a more consistent shell option.

Super informative – thanks! I learned a LOT. I’ve definitely been under-arming myself. Off to the ammo store I go.

Hope you can find some, Nice Fella! Shotgun shells are extremely scarce right now, at least within 60 miles of the twin cities area… Good luck!

I hunted for the bulk of my life with a trusty black Labrador and an 1100 with 1 1/4 oz of number 5s. 20 years ago, I switched to German Shorthairs and a Beretta 686 20 gauge. I have not picked up a 12 gauge since. I shoot 7/8 ounce of 6s in the first bbl, which is choked Skeet. Bottom bbl is choked IC and throws an ounce of #5s. I will retire from bird hunting when I no longer own a dog.

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LabDaddy1 wrote:

Hope you can find some, Nice Fella! Shotgun shells are extremely scarce right now, at least within 60 miles of the twin cities area… Good luck!

I didn’t realize they were so scarce! I have a few boxes from last year–I guess I should be glad.

I’ve read as much on this subject as I possibly could. To sum up,

lead shot, 4,5,or 6s 1 1/4 oz out of an IC if a semi, or some combination of Skeet, IC, Mod, IM for a stack barrel. Shell speed 1300-1500fps.

non-tox shells where required
Steel 1 1/4oz. 1500fps+ NUMBER 2 OR 3, IC choke(steel doesn’t deform and therefor patterns tighter than lead)
Bismuth 1 1/4oz. number 4 or 5 IC or mod choke

One last thing, I’ve always read about using premium ammo, and I’ve never been sure whether it works “better” or not. But at this point if I was in a store I would spend the extra money for the premium shells, which is mainly a copper or nickel coated pellet, higher velocity, and perhaps a better wad. I’ve never cut the shells open, but have heard enough anecdotal stories to believe they are more lethal on birds.

I mostly agree with “TheFamousGrouse”

20 gauge, 2 3/4 or 3 inch, Federal Premium #4 (lead), copper plated / buffed magnums

I shoot two barrel lengths which have had the forcing cones lengthened to improve patterns:

26 inch IC/Mod
18 inch Cyl (great grouse gun)

I tried many custom loads over the years and settled on these over 30 years ago for the same reasons TheFamousGrouse did. They work!

For those that think #4s are to big for grouse, they are not in a 18 inch cylinder gun. You get a BIG (barn door size) pattern that’s makes it hard to miss… just point and shoot.

Buy yourself a cheap used barrel at a gun show and have your gunsmith shorten it and lengthen the forcing cone as trap-shooters do.

Anybody have a good website for ordering pheasant loads online? Looking for steel primary. I’ve never bought ammo online before – always been a brick and mortar guy until now when they don’t even stock the shelves anymore.

Gitchi Gummi wrote:

Anybody have a good website for ordering pheasant loads online? Looking for steel primary. I’ve never bought ammo online before – always been a brick and mortar guy until now when they don’t even stock the shelves anymore.

Roger’s Sporting Goods
Macks’ Prairie Wings

Two of the retailers with an OK selection of steel shot in stock right now. You might get sticker shock though; stuff that was $99/case last year is $169/case this year.

tornadochaser wrote:

Roger’s Sporting Goods
Macks’ Prairie Wings

Two of the retailers with an OK selection of steel shot in stock right now. You might get sticker shock though; stuff that was $99/case last year is $169/case this year.

Thanks for sharing. Bummer that it looks like both websites are completely out of stock of all pheasant loads in 20 gauge.