Red lake reservation

Ripjiggen wrote:

I am only speculating here (even though they eluded to it) but I am guessing that is one of the main reasons they are fighting this. Red lake tribe is one of the poorest in the country. Imagine if your neighbor threw wild parties every weekend and everyone was showing up in fancy cars. Then when they leave they don’t always pick up after themselves.

Not saying I agree with their stance just speculating on why they may be pursuing it.

Buy the resorts and get the road access fees. Probably make more that way than extra walleye harvest. But I agree enforcing cleanup is a big issue. I know volunteer groups go out and clean at the end of the season, but I always think about how much is not seen or is already frozen into the ice from early season and covered up with more ice and snow.

If you put Red Lake Indian Reservation into Google maps it has every property the tribe owns. They have a whole bunch of mostly small parcels scattered all over the place.

“Buy the resorts and get the road access fees. Probably make more that way than extra walleye harvest.”

Easier said than done.
Not sure it’s all about the walleye harvest.

^Probably not “easy”, but a viable option. Everyone has their price. That payday for a resort is a whole lot easier than the work involved with running one for income.

I’d expect this to be an attempt IF the court system attempt to regain previous treaty lands falls apart.

queenswake wrote:

Buy the resorts and get the road access fees.

Red Lake is unlike any other MN tribe, in how they approach their sovereignty and also business. They could have a huge tourist industry if they opened a hotel/casino on the shore’s of lower Red, or even just allowed their members to guide fishing on lower Red, but they don’t. On a related note, as previously stated, they are the poorest tribe in MN, and one of the poorest in the nation. I don’t think this is about walleye, or money for them, it’s truly recapturing what they think is theirs.

Red lake allows non tribe members to use rez land and waters with a tribal member ‘guide’ but no non-tribal member is allowed to fish red lake. If they get the remaining portion of red there will never be any angling allowed on the lake again.

If they push this and have a favorable court case I think our only option is to tell them we cut all federal funding and support if they want to keep pursuing it. That will stop it dead in its tracks. They cannot survive as a nation without US federal support. I am no treaty expert but I doubt we promised all the services and financial support we are currently providing to them. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

With all this wokeness and our current federal administration, I doubt the government would ever step up and threaten cutting all support to put an end to this.

They have a casino… Seven Clans

Iowaboy1 wrote:

Start the day with a laugh

That is HILARIOUS!

BigWerm wrote:

They could have a huge tourist industry if they opened a hotel/casino on the shore’s of lower Red, or even just allowed their members to guide fishing on lower Red, but they don’t.

I am pretty sure you can fish lower Red with a guide. There is the rosebear or something like that I follow on facebook and he posts stuff all the time, but its mostly panfish and trout fishing on small lakes. I do think you can fish lower red with a tribal guide however.

In today’s political climate the worst is very likely to happen. This state is run by the left and will bend over to them to appease their wishes.
Many comments about business. YES, if they used their existing resources to operate tourism business with resorts, guides etc they could earn livings. It is far easier to blame the govt. and exist on handouts.
There are hundreds of years of stories like this around the globe in poorer nations where the west or europe have gone in to countries and built roads, wells, farming etc and once we ( those other nations left) it went to hell.
There is nothing stopping them from taking some personal initiative and approaching it from a business standpoint. The state would help them with that and I would ACTUALLY support that mindset. In the spirit of this site: teach them to FISH don’t just feed them fish.
Agree with whoever said if they want to be a sovereign nation – fine – then exist on your own with no govt handouts.

Ripjiggen wrote:

They have a casino… Seven Clans

Yeah that is a hole in the wall, and has no relation to utilizing Lower Red Lake. It’s 6 miles from Lower Red’s shore.

CaptainMusky wrote:

I am pretty sure you can fish lower Red with a guide. There is the rosebear or something like that I follow on facebook and he posts stuff all the time, but its mostly panfish and trout fishing on small lakes. I do think you can fish lower red with a tribal guide however.

I don’t know if this is still the case, but Daris Rosebear had posted previously that the tribe does not let him guide on Lower Red, only the smaller lakes on the rez.

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>BigWerm wrote:</div>
They could have a huge tourist industry if they opened a hotel/casino on the shore’s of lower Red, or even just allowed their members to guide fishing on lower Red, but they don’t.

I am pretty sure you can fish lower Red with a guide. There is the rosebear or something like that I follow on facebook and he posts stuff all the time, but its mostly panfish and trout fishing on small lakes. I do think you can fish lower red with a tribal guide however.

No fishing lower red even with a guide. Only other rez lakes.

Yeah that is a hole in the wall, and has no relation to utilizing Lower Red Lake. It’s 6 miles from Lower Red’s shore.

Don’t disagree. Was just stating they do in fact have one. Well actually more than one.

If they put one on the south shore however getting to and from would still be an issue. Not exactly a place you want to run out of gas.

You can fish reservation side of upper and other lakes and rivers but not lower red.

Recapture the land, start charging non natives access to the lake via many forms of leases, tribal taxes, resort fees etc, make the fed or state gov to upkeep the roads and infrastructure in back door deal.

Winner winner wild rice dinner.

I stated years ago when our lt governor was elected you’ll see some things start coming to a head on native issues….. I’d be expecting quite a bit more butthurt in the future!!

The fate of everyone in this country was decided long ago. One nation. Indivisible. Why would we go backwards?
This is division and isnt that blatant racism?
Seems like the ever increasing list of special interest groups is one of our major problems? Don’t hate me. Just thinking out loud with everyone else.

suzuki wrote:

The fate of everyone in this country was decided long ago. One nation. Indivisible. Why would we go backwards?
This is division and isnt that blatant racism?
Seems like the ever increasing list of special interest groups is one of our major problems? Don’t hate me. Just thinking out loud with everyone else.

suzuki wrote:

The fate of everyone in this country was decided long ago. One nation. Indivisible. Why would we go backwards?
This is division and isnt that blatant racism?
Seems like the ever increasing list of special interest groups is one of our major problems? Don’t hate me. Just thinking out loud with everyone else.

“This is division”, LOL? Pickup a book and read about native american history with the US government. Was it ‘one nation’ and ‘indivisible’ when the US government forcibly relocated native american tribes across the US? You’re talking about a population of people that was basically a victim of genocide by the US government.

Like how much effort do you put in to ignoring the historical wrongs done to the native americans in this country to say something so completely ridiculous like this?

You guys sure love playing the victim, it’s incredible. I suppose this is one of those pieces of US history you want removed from curriculum and libraries though? I can see the new GOP-sponsored history books now, “In 2023 the evil and oppressive Red Lake tribe stole and pillaged the poor white man’s land near Waskish, MN. Dozens of white people were temporarily inconvenienced, while thousands of fishermen with hundreds of thousands of dollars invested into their fishing hobby were no longer able to provide food for their family. They were left with only 9,999 lakes to fish in, their $40,000 ice houses had to find homes on other lakes instead. It was a dark and sad time for the white man. Meanwhile, the greedy and decadently rich Red Lake Tribe forcibly took back the land that was promised to them in a former treaty by the US government, leaving the poor white americans to wonder how they’ll rationalize their $40,000 ice castle if they can’t use it twice on red lake every year. LOL

If you think you are getting an unfair shake in this deal, or any other deal involving native americans, I encourage you to go live on a reservation and see what it’s like. By how you guys talk about it, everyone’s rolling in government funds just living it up. It’s the easy life eh?

Maybe think silently in the future for everyone’s sake…

Justin Donson wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>suzuki wrote:</div>
The fate of everyone in this country was decided long ago. One nation. Indivisible. Why would we go backwards?
This is division and isnt that blatant racism?
Seems like the ever increasing list of special interest groups is one of our major problems? Don’t hate me. Just thinking out loud with everyone else.

“This is division”, LOL? Pickup a book and read about native american history with the US government. Was it ‘one nation’ and ‘indivisible’ when the US government forcibly relocated native american tribes across the US? You’re talking about a population of people that was basically a victim of genocide by the US government.

Like how much effort do you put in to ignoring the historical wrongs done to the native americans in this country to say something so completely ridiculous like this?

You guys sure love playing the victim, it’s incredible. I suppose this is one of those pieces of US history you want removed from curriculum and libraries though? I can see the new GOP-sponsored history books now, “In 2023 the evil and oppressive Red Lake tribe stole and pillaged the poor white man’s land near Waskish, MN. Dozens of white people were temporarily inconvenienced, while thousands of fishermen with hundreds of thousands of dollars invested into their fishing hobby were no longer able to provide food for their family. They were left with only 9,999 lakes to fish in, their $40,000 ice houses had to find homes on other lakes instead. It was a dark and sad time for the white man. Meanwhile, the greedy and decadently rich Red Lake Tribe forcibly took back the land that was promised to them in a former treaty by the US government, leaving the poor white americans to wonder how they’ll rationalize their $40,000 ice castle if they can’t use it twice on red lake every year. LOL

If you think you are getting an unfair shake in this deal, or any other deal involving native americans, I encourage you to go live on a reservation and see what it’s like. By how you guys talk about it, everyone’s rolling in government funds just living it up. It’s the easy life eh?

Maybe think silently in the future for everyone’s sake…

Maybe you should grow up and stop clinging to the past? Also, voice your opinion of the topic. Dont critique mine.

Who is you guys?

I think most have just been talking about the article and discussing the actions that the Red Lake tribe is currently doing. Right wrong or indifferent.

Justin Donson wrote:

Like how much effort do you put in to ignoring the historical wrongs done to the native americans in this country to say something so completely ridiculous like this?

Somehow, he makes it seem quite effortless?

Ripjiggen wrote:

Who is you guys?

I think most have just been talking about the article and discussing the actions that the Red Lake tribe is currently doing. Right wrong or indifferent.

It going off the rails. Dont worry. There are a couple more Red Lake posts to continue when this one gets locked.

Let them have red back.

It wasn’t going off the rails till about a half hour ago.

I am not here to deny the wrongdoings that destroyed Native American communities and societies throughout history. The Red Lake Tribe along with most others were taken complete advantage with many of the treaties that were signed, arranged, and “negotiated.” Genocide is not a stretch for certain tribes but not all.

However, my stance is that if we govern the world today in attempts to solely “undo” past wrongs society will be one cluster of chaos and anger. I own acreage that has documented Native burial mounds on it. Should I somehow then too be displaced centuries later? Would this fix the wrongs that were done? Would this create favorable treatment for those who perished 200 years ago?

Minnesota has thousands of great lakes. It seems that the agreement in-place in and around URL has created opportunities for Natives and non-natives while also honoring some aspects of 100+ year old treaties protecting native lands. This is probably exactly why URL remains as good as it does despite the growing pressures on resources. Starting from scratch and challenging all of this will do nothing more than cause hatred, anger, and accomplish little. Look at this thread alone in ~12 hours.

It seems the system in place works out fairly well for both sides. Both sides have collaborated to rebuild a collapsed fishery. Both sides have the opportunity for huge economic gains with fishing…whether or not the private landowners or tribe choose to push for that using URL is solely up to them.

This topic came up on WC and I decided to put my 2 cents in…that proved interesting. My premise is that prior to the 1837, 1855, and Dawes act the area from the Metro to the Northern Minnesota border were occupied by the Dakota Tribe. The Ojibwa went to war with the Dakota and kicked them out, so when will the Ojibwa recognized they did the same thing to the Dakota and return their lands to them. Whether the treaties of 1837 and 1855 were ethically carried out, the fact remains that these treaties solidified the lands now owned by the Ojibwa and the Dakota had no claim to them. Stop at the historical marker near the outlet of the Rum River on the west side and read about the Sioux Chief Izaty. My only question is why the existing tribes don’t make it right to the Sioux. I got all sorts of excuses, the current situation is a result of treaties and laws at the time of the regressions. Ok, what were the conditions of the take over of Sioux lands…..none because you didn’t have treaties, laws, courts, OK. It was explained to me that the Iroquois ran the Ojibwa out of Canada referencing the Beaver Wars, my question is why is it right for you but when it happens to you it’s wrong. I get the obligations to the current treaties and agreements, this will be settled in court and it will be what it is. The tribes want everything as it was in the past, that’s fine. But if you want to be a sovereign country, be one. Yes, so you had right to hunt and gather food, but in todays world that is virtually impossible. OK, the Federal Government will drop off 30 cows a week to the reservation border, beef is 30X better than venison anyway, you can shoot them with a bow and have a weekly community butchering event, just like when they shot buffalo. It’s the 21st century. Colonization of the new world brought misery and opportunity. I actually don’t blame the tribes for excising their rights. I fished many times out of JR’s. I fished with Darius Rosebear, he was very informative, it was fun, and he acknowledged the Lower Red Lake was sacred, no non native fishing allowed. I highly recommend him, he is truly an a business guy that has it figured out. Well I know what I spend on a weekend at Red and I can tell you what I spend for walleye is 10X what the wholesale price the natives get. I don’t know, I wish the Red Lake Band luck but I also wish JR’s Mort’s, Rogers, and the other resorts on the lake the same luck. How many wrongs make a right? Bash away, I am used to it already!

Ahh yes Comrade Donson, how progressive of you to look at the tribes as a monolith. Where were the Red Lake Tribe moved from? And when was the Red Lake tribe a victim of genocide? Since Comrade Donson likely lives on what he believes to be stolen land, I look forward to him turning it over to the tribe as one should do with stolen property…just need to figure out if it goes to the Sioux, Ojibwe, Blackfoot, Arapahoe, Iowa, Sauk, Ottawa or another tribe that inhabited MN at one point or another… (end sarcasm)

No one disputes that the tribes were treated poorly on the settlement of America. Some of us are also aware of how poorly tribes treated each other before and during that time as well. But we are talking about now, and the correct way to move forward. Somehow Comrade Donson thinks expanding the reservation is the correct way forward, despite the absolute destitution in nearly every facet of life on all but a few extremely wealthy (due to a corporate monopoly on gambling and small tribal population) reservations. Perhaps Comrade also thinks their version of socialism could still work. Anyway Comrade please post back when you decide which tribe you decide to donate your land to!

suzuki wrote:

The fate of everyone in this country was decided long ago. One nation. Indivisible. Why would we go backwards?

it was decided to be “one nation” by one of the two parties. pretty easy to make the other side agree to what you want when you’re holding them at proverbial gunpoint.

Gitchi Gummi wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>suzuki wrote:</div>
The fate of everyone in this country was decided long ago. One nation. Indivisible. Why would we go backwards?

it was decided to be “one nation” by one of the two parties. pretty easy to make the other side agree to what you want when you’re holding them at proverbial gunpoint.

This is how all land was acquired since the beginning of time… by force. Rarely did one people not completely wipe out the others… let alone offer them some land to continue their ways.

The Indians killed and did awful things to neighboring tribes long before we were here.

Read history books. People have been conquering nations and killing people long before Jesus walked this earth. Same as it ever was.

Times were different back then. It’s time to stop living in the past and trying to right the wrongs that were done 100’s of years ago. No good comes of it and is actually counterproductive in some cases.

Could you imagine the headline… Government seeks to wipe out Red Lake Reservation, treaty shmeety.