Calling all ice rod builders

  • icefanatic11
    Birnamwood, WI
    Posts: 574
    #1359929

    Alright gentlemen, just got into the custom ice stick diy kick and bought a few blanks and now I’m in need of some recommendations. First about the blanks themselves they are hollow fast tip blanks for pannies and are 40 inches long. I know a little bit of how to wrap guides etc I just want to know what you guys would use for guides and how many for a 40 inch blank? Also what would you recommend for wrap, epoxy and where do you fellas buy all of this stuff from? Did a quick search on Jans netcraft but thought I would toss it out to you experienced builders for advise before I buy all of the materials. Thanks in advance

    trytoofish
    sw Mn.
    Posts: 418
    #1391013

    mudhole .com also sells rod building supplies.

    rod-man
    Pine City, MN.
    Posts: 1279
    #1391020

    mudhole X2

    also

    Wild River Dist. (marine on St. Croix 651-433-2217)

    scmelik
    South Dakota
    Posts: 238
    #1391022

    mudhole has a bigger selection but I like Anglers Workshop better.

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13302
    #1391028

    Here’s a few pics from what I like. You’ll get various opinions…so figure out what’s best for you.

    I have all my 40-41″ noodles built exactly the same. 8″ handles. I like a thicker handle, so i don’t wrasp and sand them down as much as “standard”. I found leaving them a bit thicker they don’t flex or bend as much. long term I have much less cork cracking in the handle.

    I built them to be extremely light. The more wraps you have, heavier guides, and more expoxy the less sensitivity you have.

    I went with American Tackle BSFG Fly Guides – single foot. This is where a Ford Vs. Chevy argument usually kicks in. Previously, I had been using HTRLF Ring Lock Fly Guides from American tackle. Fantastic guides, but for me they were an over kill. Not only in price (avg over $5.00 each), but in performance. If I were building flyrods for chinooks, no question I would use the HTRLF Ring Lock for the abuse of 150 yrd runs. But since I never had a crappie or gill spool me out even 10 yrds yet, i found the performance of the stainles steel has been perfect for my ice needs. Also, the BSFG are lighter!

    For tips, I went with Pacific Bay BFTL Fly Tops. These are an extra large loop and often associated with saltwater rods. I generally don’t care much for many of the Pacific Bay products, but these tips have held up for many years for me. I also prefer the larger loop when hole hopping and dealing with ice-up. They are a little more forgiving.

    DO NOT USE SNAKE GUIDES – YOU WILL HATE THEM.

    I’m not partial to any manufacture of thread. If your just starting, i suggest you start with size C. Size A is very fine and for some people will take a little learning curve with it. I have these wrapped with metallic which is about a size C.

    Pro Kote is the finish I use. Looking back at rods i built in the 80’s still have a nice clear coat. Some of the other brands that I have used have yellowed over time. Regardless of any brand you use, buy the slowest setting epoxy. Fast set epoxies will dry stiff and be much more brittle. You want a very thin coat that just covers your wraps and extends a 1/16 to 1/8″ over onto the blank. Anything more is just adding weight where you don’t want it.
    IF, you incorrectly mix your epoxy with not enough hardner and it stays tacky after 24 hours, no need to panic. Just mix a new batch with a little extra hardener and re-coat. I’ve had a few over the years that I had to do that on and it still finishes beautifully.

    Mudhole.com has become a huge player in the web stores. Their prices are about par for most items. I find some things cheaper and more expensive elsewhere. But i also have a few local sources here too.

    Shoot me a PM if you want a guide spacing to use as a starting point. I’m a huge fan of the Angle Method for guide spacing. However, I always tape my guides on, put a reel on, and play with it to maximize what I want them to achieve. In this case, I reduced guides and manipulated the action a little.

    Welcome to the world of DIY!!!





    scmelik
    South Dakota
    Posts: 238
    #1391031

    great reply Randy. I use the same guides and honestly believe that they are just as good as those that cost 4 times the price.

    icefanatic11
    Birnamwood, WI
    Posts: 574
    #1391041

    Thanks for all the replies gents. I do not have the blanks yet but they should be in by the end of the week just wanted to get ahead of the game and pick out supplies before they arrive. Randy I’ll be shooting you a pm for guide spacing and whatnot when the time comes also thanks for the pics and elaborate time consuming response. Now I just need to figure out a system to stabilize the rods when I’m wrapping the guides. Thanks guys.

    belletaine
    Nevis, MN
    Posts: 5116
    #1391044

    Hey Randy, can you explain the “angle method” either thru pm or here. Thanks. Guide placement is where I second guess myself. I have a tough time ordering the parts from the web. I would like to hold and see them.

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13302
    #1391048

    ice – i don’t mind giving very detailed explanations to those that appreciate the info. I’ve been doing this for a LONG time, so its like my way of passing things forward. I had some great mentors when I was a punk kid, and its the only right thing to do.

    It’s the Don Morton’s guide spacing chart. The concept works great and gets you very close. A little playing around and you can dial in your spacing very easily. His charts are a bit pricy, but it saves a lot of time

    scmelik
    South Dakota
    Posts: 238
    #1391058

    Quote:


    Hey Randy, can you explain the “angle method” either thru pm or here. Thanks. Guide placement is where I second guess myself. I have a tough time ordering the parts from the web. I would like to hold and see them.


    guide placement always gets me as well. This past week up on Devils I broke my TB power noodle because I had the guide placement screwed up just enough that couldn’t handle the load of a big perch, in fact it actually bent into a complete circle at one point.

    I always static test my rods and I thought I had placement pretty good but apparently it wasn’t.

    396ranger
    Cottage Grove MN
    Posts: 283
    #1391060

    I just made 2 ice rods Friday. I use the flex coat epoxy which has been good to me. I did mix one batch wrong and will be reapplying over on one of my rods since it is still tacky. I’ve bought from wild river and mud hole.

    My guide spacing has been from st.croix rods they have a chart on the web site which works good for me.
    The ice rods were trial and error I used guide glue and moved them around to get a nice arc to the line.
    So far 10 spinning rods 2 small ultr light and 2 ice rods.
    My wive keeps asking don’t you have enough yet

    milemark_714
    Posts: 1283
    #1391061

    For your 40″ rod,you probably will end up with 5 guides,plus the tip.I just finished a 39″ solid carbon rod with that amount of guides.Almost done with a solid composite tweaked noodle that also has 5 plus the tip.I use PacBay closed loop fly guides,double foot snake guides don’t work well.Size #3-#6,and use Flexilite spinning guides for the larger ones.

    Pictured are the handles I like.Super light and sensitive.I use 2″ graphite arbors in the center,drilled to blank diameter.I use NO tape when fitting handles.Hard to find .187 dia. or smaller.I use solid and drill to fit when possible.

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13302
    #1391065

    Quote:


    This past week up on Devils I broke my TB power noodle because I had the guide placement screwed up just enough that couldn’t handle the load of a big perch, in fact it actually bent into a complete circle at one point.

    I always static test my rods and I thought I had placement pretty good but apparently it wasn’t.


    Take a very close look at the blank where it broke. I would be inclined to think you will find crushed fiber or a cleaner looking break. Sounds like thread was wrapped too tight.

    Scott, sweet looking work as usual!

    Bassn Dan
    Posts: 967
    #1391080

    Quote:


    Quote:


    Hey Randy, can you explain the “angle method” either thru pm or here. Thanks. Guide placement is where I second guess myself. I have a tough time ordering the parts from the web. I would like to hold and see them.


    guide placement always gets me as well. This past week up on Devils I broke my TB power noodle because I had the guide placement screwed up just enough that couldn’t handle the load of a big perch, in fact it actually bent into a complete circle at one point.

    I always static test my rods and I thought I had placement pretty good but apparently it wasn’t.


    The guide placement may have been ok, but if the rod “bent into a complete circle” it sounds like it was “high sticked” as in pointing the rod straight up and lifting the fish instead of using the rod at an angle. High sticking puts a HUGE amount of stress on the blank and is right up there with being stepped on as a leading cause of broken rods.

    Dan

    scmelik
    South Dakota
    Posts: 238
    #1391110

    Quote:


    Quote:


    This past week up on Devils I broke my TB power noodle because I had the guide placement screwed up just enough that couldn’t handle the load of a big perch, in fact it actually bent into a complete circle at one point.

    I always static test my rods and I thought I had placement pretty good but apparently it wasn’t.


    Take a very close look at the blank where it broke. I would be inclined to think you will find crushed fiber or a cleaner looking break. Sounds like thread was wrapped too tight.

    Where it broke was right in between to guides where the was a little bit bigger gap than there should have been. Had there been a guide where it splintered the blank would have continued its parabolic bend. Nothing wrong with the blank or the other guide I just screwed up and didn’t have my spacing correct. It sucks cause it was an expensive blank but its a live and learn process
    Scott, sweet looking work as usual!


    Bassn Dan
    Posts: 967
    #1391136

    Quote:


    Quote:


    Quote:


    This past week up on Devils I broke my TB power noodle because I had the guide placement screwed up just enough that couldn’t handle the load of a big perch, in fact it actually bent into a complete circle at one point.

    I always static test my rods and I thought I had placement pretty good but apparently it wasn’t.


    Take a very close look at the blank where it broke. I would be inclined to think you will find crushed fiber or a cleaner looking break. Sounds like thread was wrapped too tight.

    Where it broke was right in between to guides where the was a little bit bigger gap than there should have been. Had there been a guide where it splintered the blank would have continued its parabolic bend. Nothing wrong with the blank or the other guide I just screwed up and didn’t have my spacing correct. It sucks cause it was an expensive blank but its a live and learn process
    Scott, sweet looking work as usual!



    Take a look at this article about rod breakage. http://www.rodbuilding.org/library/rodusage.pdf
    A guide where the blank broke wouldn’t have helped. Bending the rod “in a circle” is what likely broke it unless it had been damaged earlier. Sounds like a BIG perch that broke the rod. After this slide the big ones out of the hole or grab them – don’t lift them in the air with rod pointed straight up cause it sucks to break a good rod!

    Dan

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13302
    #1391155

    I agree with Dan, I didn’t catch the “circle” which over strained the blank

    scmelik
    South Dakota
    Posts: 238
    #1391162

    Quote:


    Quote:


    Quote:


    Quote:


    This past week up on Devils I broke my TB power noodle because I had the guide placement screwed up just enough that couldn’t handle the load of a big perch, in fact it actually bent into a complete circle at one point.

    I always static test my rods and I thought I had placement pretty good but apparently it wasn’t.


    Take a very close look at the blank where it broke. I would be inclined to think you will find crushed fiber or a cleaner looking break. Sounds like thread was wrapped too tight.

    Where it broke was right in between to guides where the was a little bit bigger gap than there should have been. Had there been a guide where it splintered the blank would have continued its parabolic bend. Nothing wrong with the blank or the other guide I just screwed up and didn’t have my spacing correct. It sucks cause it was an expensive blank but its a live and learn process
    Scott, sweet looking work as usual!



    Take a look at this article about rod breakage. http://www.rodbuilding.org/library/rodusage.pdf
    A guide where the blank broke wouldn’t have helped. Bending the rod “in a circle” is what likely broke it unless it had been damaged earlier. Sounds like a BIG perch that broke the rod. After this slide the big ones out of the hole or grab them – don’t lift them in the air with rod pointed straight up cause it sucks to break a good rod!

    Dan


    Dan,

    I agree with what you are saying but I know without a shadow a doubt the way this rod was bending that a guide right where it broke would have completely eliminated the problem (I will post pictures this afternoon). It wasn’t a big fish only about 10.5-11″ so definetly not a jumbo that broke it. It broke mid fight so it wasn’t lifting it that broke it just the way the blank was stressed. The blank wanted to bend right where it snapped but because there was nothing there to help it bend it stressed it more than it could handle. Now I am not saying that there couldn’t have been something wrong with the blank that I didn’t see and that it wouldn’t have broke later but in this case I am 100% positive the reason it broke was because I screwed up. I thought things looked funny after I got all the guides wrapped but because I didn’t see any marks where a guide should have been I dismissed my feelings, bad idea. When I got home there was a guide sitting just off my wrapper that I didn’t see that should have been in that spot. Like I said, live and learn. I promise you that I won’t make that mistake again.

    icefanatic11
    Birnamwood, WI
    Posts: 574
    #1391175

    Great commentary on this thread, its really giving me a good crash course for rod building 101. I was already planning on a 5 guide rod with a tip I figured that out based on the other rods I have already.

    I didn’t realize how crucial guide spacing really was to get the perfect parabolic rod bend. Say I didn’t want to buy a chart for the spacing, I’m a college kid looking to save all the money I possibly can, how would one go about spacing them? My late great uncle was a builder and I have his various elaborate notebooks of notes and tips etc but at no point does he really discuss the importance of spacing. I inherited his last homemade rod when he passed (’97) away a 5’6 ultralight and it is to this day the sweetest thing ever loads perfectly and yet he never used a chart…was he just good at guessing or what? Sorry for the lengthy post.

    puddlepounder
    Cove Bay Mille Lacs lake MN
    Posts: 1814
    #1391187

    I have built and broke alot of ice rods. I don’t think a quality blank would break between two guides like yours did without having been damaged. It doesn’t take much of a nick in the blank to cause a catastrophic break

    scmelik
    South Dakota
    Posts: 238
    #1391334

    Here are the pictures of the break. you can see the space between the two guides and right where it broke. Reeling that fish in you could tell that the blank wanted to bend right in that spot but without the guide there like it should have been (again my fault) it couldn’t. Now its possible that there could have been a small flaw in the blank causing it to break I didn’t see or notice anything when I inspected it but its possible. I still think that if I would have had a guide in that spot that it wouldn’t have broken but I could be wrong.

    scmelik
    South Dakota
    Posts: 238
    #1391336

    the guide right by my hand is the last guide before the tip top if that helps out with reference any.

    milemark_714
    Posts: 1283
    #1391355

    Quote:


    Here are the pictures of the break. you can see the space between the two guides and right where it broke. Reeling that fish in you could tell that the blank wanted to bend right in that spot but without the guide there like it should have been (again my fault) it couldn’t. Now its possible that there could have been a small flaw in the blank causing it to break I didn’t see or notice anything when I inspected it but its possible. I still think that if I would have had a guide in that spot that it wouldn’t have broken but I could be wrong.


    If the distance from the tip to 1st guide was 2 7/8″,I would have placed that guide on the left at about 6 1/2″ from tip.Those blanks seem very durable,that one looks like carbon or composite.It does look like the blank kinked in that spot,having no guide for support.

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