I Cried Today

Gitchi Gummi wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>fishthumper wrote:</div>
First of all you show me where any billionaire, including potus45 did not pay any tax. Look at the data attached on my reply. The rich are paying a TON of tax. while a real large % of people are paying VERY little if any tax at all. If that is your definition of a special tax credit, YES, you are correct in what I said.

POTUS45’s tax returns are out there for you to see. Do you think I’m making it up? On his 2020 tax return, he paid zero federal taxes and got a refund of over $5 MILLION. In 2016 and 2017, he paid $1,500 total and then paid no taxes the previous 10 years. If that doesn’t bother you, I don’t know what would. Go back to burying your head in the sand and worrying about the person in poverty with negative net worth who is getting a tax credit you aren’t.

Did he cheat or follow the rules?

The IRS’ mandatory presidential audit program was “dormant” during Trump’s years in office. Coincidence? You tell me.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

Did he cheat or follow the rules?

To my knowledge, since he had a large net loss during those years, he was not subject to federal income taxes, correct?

You don’t pay income taxes on existing money or net worth. You pay taxes on money you make each year. If someone had a net gain of nothing (or a loss), I wouldn’t expect them to pay federal income taxes.

Really it just says that his businesses sucked during those years. Turns out he wasn’t trying to hide his taxes because he didn’t pay any; he was trying to hide it because he didn’t want everyone to see how unprofitable his businesses were.

On his 2020 tax return, he paid zero federal taxes and got a refund of over $5 MILLION. In 2016 and 2017, he paid $1,500 total and then paid no taxes the previous 10 years.

Did he cheat or follow the rules?

Eelpoutguy wrote:

On his 2020 tax return, he paid zero federal taxes and got a refund of over $5 MILLION. In 2016 and 2017, he paid $1,500 total and then paid no taxes the previous 10 years.

Did he cheat or follow the rules?

That’s the whole point — that the rules are hot trash and allow the extremely wealthy to exploit loopholes to their advantage while the working man has no choice but to pony up. I don’t know who even brought 45 into this thread but I think it wasn’t to say “he cheated” but rather to use him as an example of how broken the tax code is.

My point is, then simply change the rules.

Second point why make it extremely political and call out a republican president?

If you want credibility at least call out someone on each side because that would be low hanging fruit and show you are not political. Your point would hold much more water.

Funny when I asked the question twice I got crickets, that’s political.

If it’s a question of which is worse….both lol. They are both worse. Partly because you can’t separate the two at this point. The amount of money flowing through Washington through corporations, shell companies, PACs etc it’s pretty much impossible to distinguish between corporate America and the government.

And like I said, our politicians are nearly all bought and paid for. There’s a select few that aren’t, but not many. So who’s worse, the politicians that are being paid off and taking advantage of their positions of power or the corporations and ultra wealthy that are buying them off to suit their needs?

No, The politicians are worse, far more worse. We do not, (at least I do not) vote for someone who will be on the take and they know where the money is coming from. Of course they do, that’s why they make the choices they do.
They sell themselves to the devil, the almighty buck!
Whoever gets voted in needs to speak for the people that voted them in (a republic in which we live) and not the people that pay them off.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

My point is, then simply change the rules.

Second point why make it extremely political and call out a republican president?

If you want credibility at least call out someone on each side because that would be low hanging fruit and show you are not political. Your point would hold much more water.

Funny when I asked the question twice I got crickets, that’s political.

100 percent spot on.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

My point is, then simply change the rules.

Second point why make it extremely political and call out a republican president?

If you want credibility at least call out someone on each side because that would be low hanging fruit and show you are not political. Your point would hold much more water.

Funny when I asked the question twice I got crickets, that’s political.

I’ll get right to work on changing that tax code just as soon as I finish unfairly savaging the Donald.

Seriously though… I haven’t re-read the entire thread but maybe you can point out where anyone claimed trump cheated or broke a law with his taxes? I don’t think that ever happened here. It was just stated that in certain years he paid little or no federal income taxes. Which is an irrefutable fact at this point. So then you ask the blunt question “did he cheat?” and you wonder why nobody is furiously typing up their response? I think it’s because you’re having this fake argument in your own head. Again, 6 pages, maybe I missed something?

And why so sensitive on any perceived trump criticism? If you look at the thread, Biden was called out long before trump was, and in response I believe Justin simply acknowledged he’s a turd. And I’ll second that, even as a lifelong democrat. I didn’t vote for him in the primary and I wouldn’t have voted for him if there was a human alternative.

For clarification –
When y’all are saying the rich folks aren’t paying there fair share in taxes and
same with large corps, are they following the rules when they file their taxes or not?
If so, then there is nothing to complain about.
If not, then they should suffer consequences.

Eelpoutguy wrote:

For clarification –
When y’all are saying the rich folks aren’t paying there fair share in taxes and
same with large corps, are they following the rules when they file their taxes or not?
If so, then there is nothing to complain about.
If not, then they should suffer consequences.

Nobody here is personal accountant to bezos or Koch. Nobody said they cheated on their taxes. And nobody knows the answer to this question that only you are asking.

The only crime with Trumps taxes, was how his returns were illegally “leaked”. If you remember correctly, he is constantly under an audit also. Do you really think he would be a free man if they had dirt on him and his taxes ?

Back when he debated Hillary the tax thing came up. His response was priceless because he said he knew the tax breaks and loop holes better than anyone else. Many of Hillary’s biggest donors do they same thing. Democrats will say they will tax the rich but never will because that’s where they get their money.

Personally I need to find ways to save money from taxes because the last 4 years I’ve had to pay in. Most of pay is commission too so I get bent over there each month when I get my commission checks. Wasn’t it Bill Clinton who passed the tax act on bonuses and commission checks?

riverbassman wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>stout93 wrote:</div>
It will get worse in years’ to come.

Biden is going to raise taxes to support his spending habits..

oh…and to support Ukraine and their government pensions and lavish lifestyles…Zelensky’s wife needs another $50k for a spring shopping spree in Paris..

you’re footing the bill..

You do know the tax code has not been changed since the last President was in Office? It was said back then that the 3-4th years of the new tax code would hit the Middle Class…… welcome to the 4th year!

You do know that I said nothing about the previous tax code, right?

President Donald Trump signed a law that dramatically overhauled the U.S. tax code in December 2017. The law created new income tax brackets that changed what many Americans pay in taxes. Most changes went into effect on Jan. 1, 2018, and did not affect your tax return until the 2018 tax year, which you filed in 2019.

So if my EV-W Math is correct, the 1st year was 2018, filed in 2019, so 2nd is 2019, filed in 2020, the 3rd year was 2020, filed in 2021 and the 4th year, which you claim is now, would be 2021, filed in 2022.. last year ? This is the 5th year so…….. it don’t add up ?

big_g wrote:

Do you really think he would be a free man if they had dirt on him and his taxes ?

this is laughable. you think the justice system has treated Trump just like hes an average Joe? (Which is exactly what he is right now. no different than you or i in the eyes of the law). If a regular person was brought to court for the things that Trump has been and currently is brought to court for, they would be in jail right now. One of the main reasons Trump hasnt been convicted is because he uses donation money to pay his legal fees and his lawyers employee countless delays. Another thing Trump does wisely is insulate himself from the crimes – just like the mafia. I believe hes had more of his inner circle go to prison than any politician in history. His lawyer, his company accountants ect ect

I dont think Trump will ever be indicted criminally and it wont be because they havent uncovered evidence of a crime. hes a Political powerhouse. He wont go to jail.

crappie55369 wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>big_g wrote:</div>
Do you really think he would be a free man if they had dirt on him and his taxes ?

this is laughable. you think the justice system has treated Trump just like hes an average Joe? (Which is exactly what he is right now. no different than you or i in the eyes of the law). If a regular person was brought to court for the things that Trump has been and currently is brought to court for, they would be in jail right now. One of the main reasons Trump hasnt been convicted is because he uses donation money to pay his legal fees and his lawyers employee countless delays. Another thing Trump does wisely is insulate himself from the crimes – just like the mafia. I believe hes had more of his inner circle go to prison than any politician in history. His lawyer, his company accountants ect ect

I dont think Trump will ever be indicted criminally and it wont be because they havent uncovered evidence of a crime. hes a Political powerhouse. He wont go to jail.

Trump, political powerhouse Have you seen crooked hillary ? Do you think Hunter Biden should be in jail ?

big_g wrote:

Have you seen crooked hillary ? Do you think Hunter Biden should be in jail ?

Killary, Hunter, Joe et al should all be in jail.

big_g wrote:

Trump, political powerhouse Have you seen crooked hillary ? Do you think Hunter Biden should be in jail ?

have i seen Hillary? yeah, not much to look at. Do i think Hunter Biden should be in jail? Sure. If i were to place a wager id say every politician in Washington has participated in criminal activity that would land your average joe in jail. Which is exactly the point i was making – unlike your comment i dont believe the justice system treats politicians like Trump the same as you and me.

gimruis wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Eelpoutguy wrote:</div>
Did he cheat or follow the rules?

To my knowledge, since he had a large net loss during those years, he was not subject to federal income taxes, correct?

You don’t pay income taxes on existing money or net worth. You pay taxes on money you make each year. If someone had a net gain of nothing (or a loss), I wouldn’t expect them to pay federal income taxes.

Really it just says that his businesses sucked during those years. Turns out he wasn’t trying to hide his taxes because he didn’t pay any; he was trying to hide it because he didn’t want everyone to see how unprofitable his businesses were.

I’m basically in agreement with this while noting that Trump and all politicians at this level play by a different set of rules than us. They have the means to know and exploit loopholes, on all sides of the aisle.

Trump wants to uphold his reputation as a wealthy businessman who has everything he touch turn to gold. Clearly that’s not the case given his taxable income and losses over the years. This isn’t anything new, some of his other businesses have tanked as well. I personally think he probably broke fewer laws than most realize, and is looking to save his business face as much as anything. He’s not exactly a Carnegie, Rockefeller, Walton, Bezos, or Jobs…but he sure wants people to think he is.

Justin Donson / Dirty Water / Gitichi Gummi

You have all now converted me. I now believe that Major Corporations and the Wealthy are the Cause of our problems. They should both pay way more tax’s because they don’t pay enough. I also know that the Government is my friend and is looking out for me. I will now sleep much better knowing who is at fault for our / my problems and who I can count on to take care of me.

Speaking of jail, the Q Shaman is serving just under 4 years for his “storming the Capitol”… did anyone catch the video of the Capitol Police escorting him around, trying to get into the Chambers ? Wrong on so many levels. His Lawyer said the video was withheld from the defense, which is in itself illegal. Imagine that, is it possible that the Jan 6 committee was crooked too ?!

Eelpoutguy wrote:

For clarification –
When y’all are saying the rich folks aren’t paying there fair share in taxes and
same with large corps, are they following the rules when they file their taxes or not?
If so, then there is nothing to complain about.
If not, then they should suffer consequences.

This is crazy logic man. Are you saying that all rules that exist in this country or the world are fair and logical? That’s what we are arguing about, that the current system favors the wealthy significantly more than it should.

Like I said before, and what progressive/liberal minded citizens seem to be much more capable of admitting, clean house in Washington. Stop the corporate and wealthy lobbies that are buying and influencing all branches of government.

If that’s the General Grifter Donald Trump(it is), get his ass out of the political system.

If that’s fossilized horse turd Joe Biden(it is), get his ass out of the political system.

If that’s insider trading extraordinaire Nancy Pelosi(it is), get her ass out of the political system.

If that’s whatever you call the embarrassment of Marjorie Taylor Greene(it is), get her ass out of the political system.

The distinction of them breaking laws or not is totally irrelevant, you know why? BECAUSE THEY MAKE THE LAWS.

Justin Donson wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Eelpoutguy wrote:</div>
For clarification –
When y’all are saying the rich folks aren’t paying there fair share in taxes and
same with large corps, are they following the rules when they file their taxes or not?
If so, then there is nothing to complain about.
If not, then they should suffer consequences.

This is crazy logic man. Are you saying that all rules that exist in this country or the world are fair and logical? That’s what we are arguing about, that the current system favors the wealthy significantly more than it should.

Like I said before, and what progressive/liberal minded citizens seem to be much more capable of admitting, clean house in Washington. Stop the corporate and wealthy lobbies that are buying and influencing all branches of government.

If that’s the General Grifter Donald Trump(it is), get his ass out of the political system.

If that’s fossilized horse turd Joe Biden(it is), get his ass out of the political system.

If that’s insider trading extraordinaire Nancy Pelosi(it is), get her ass out of the political system.

If that’s whatever you call the embarrassment of Marjorie Taylor Greene(it is), get her ass out of the political system.

The distinction of them breaking laws or not is totally irrelevant, you know why? BECAUSE THEY MAKE THE LAWS.

All are a problem. The sooner all of these people go away, the better. That I can agree with.

Justin Donson wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Eelpoutguy wrote:</div>
For clarification –
When y’all are saying the rich folks aren’t paying there fair share in taxes and
same with large corps, are they following the rules when they file their taxes or not?
If so, then there is nothing to complain about.
If not, then they should suffer consequences.

This is crazy logic man. Are you saying that all rules that exist in this country or the world are fair and logical? That’s what we are arguing about, that the current system favors the wealthy significantly more than it should.

Like I said before, and what progressive/liberal minded citizens seem to be much more capable of admitting, clean house in Washington. Stop the corporate and wealthy lobbies that are buying and influencing all branches of government.

If that’s the General Grifter Donald Trump(it is), get his ass out of the political system.

If that’s fossilized horse turd Joe Biden(it is), get his ass out of the political system.

If that’s insider trading extraordinaire Nancy Pelosi(it is), get her ass out of the political system.

If that’s whatever you call the embarrassment of Marjorie Taylor Greene(it is), get her ass out of the political system.

The distinction of them breaking laws or not is totally irrelevant, you know why? BECAUSE THEY MAKE THE LAWS.

“Fair”?

…a fair is a place where people show hogs.

The sooner people realize nothing is fair, the better off they are. If you or anyone else is waiting for our legal system to be “fair” or for people to stop being self-serving when elected…you will be waiting your entire life and then some.

fishthumper wrote:

Justin Donson / Dirty Water / Gitichi Gummi

You have all now converted me. I now believe that Major Corporations and the Wealthy are the Cause of our problems. They should both pay way more tax’s because they don’t pay enough. I also know that the Government is my friend and is looking out for me. I will now sleep much better knowing who is at fault for our / my problems and who I can count on to take care of me.

LOL dude, keep on keeping on my friend.

I can say 1000 times that mega corporations are bad AND the government is crap.

But since I said something mean about wittle Donnie T you somehow interpret ‘our government is crap’ as ‘Justin loves the government!’.

It’s not like we have to choose whether corporations are a problem or the government is a problem…They both are? But at this point they aren’t actually completely different entities.

Corporate wealth and the ultra-wealthy ARE writing the laws in the country today, THEY are setting the agenda. So when you say the government sucks and we shouldn’t trust them, you’re right. Except a huge reason the government sucks is because they are owned by the ultra wealthy and corporations. How are you possibly interpreting that to mean that I love the government? The government IS mega-corporation America right now. BOTH need to be fixed. Corporate influence needs to be removed from the political system AND corporations need to pony up for the billions or trillions in taxes they’ve avoided since our ‘government’ started putting their needs in front of the citizens of America.

It’s a very classic conservative debate at this point though, is it satisfying to like completely ignore other people’s arguments and purposefully misinterpret their stance? Maybe I should try that sometime, they may even make me president!

Justin Donson wrote:

Like I said before, and what progressive/liberal minded citizens seem to be much more capable of admitting, clean house in Washington.

Yeah, the Liberals are doing a great job of that. We have them colluding against Bernie and Tulsi in the primary. And last 2 presidential candidates are lifetime politicians with decades in DC. In MN we have Warden Walz, Tina Smith, Ellison, all career politicians, bought and paid for, for decades now. And fwiw I could do the same for most Republicans as well.

As far as the overall ideology Justin, we agree on a lot of things, mainly how bad the govt sucks and military spending being a major issue. My thought on fixing it is less funding, less govt, more direct individual representation. The lefts ideas are more funding, more govt and more group representations, like the thing that sucks is willing, let alone capable of fixing itself…

Justin Donson wrote:

clean house in Washington. Stop the corporate and wealthy lobbies that are buying and influencing all branches of government.

If that’s the General Grifter Donald Trump(it is), get his ass out of the political system.

If that’s fossilized horse turd Joe Biden(it is), get his ass out of the political system.

If that’s insider trading extraordinaire Nancy Pelosi(it is), get her ass out of the political system.

If that’s whatever you call the embarrassment of Marjorie Taylor Greene(it is), get her ass out of the political system.

The distinction of them breaking laws or not is totally irrelevant, you know why? BECAUSE THEY MAKE THE LAWS.

This is all something you and I can 100% agree on. The problem is that the current political system is broken and I personally don’t think it can be fixed.

Biden is going to raise taxes to support his spending habits..

You do know that I said nothing about the previous tax code, right?
[/quote]
You are assuming Biden is raising taxes…. assuming again he is raising them on the middle class.
By saying “You’re footing the bill” refers to what we are paying now…. meaning the current tax code set in 2017.
After Biden changes the tax code (which is also APPROVED by Congress) would be a time to bring it up.

Justin Donson wrote:

But since I said something mean about wittle Donnie T you somehow interpret ‘our government is crap’ as ‘Justin loves the government!’.

Nothing you said about Donnie T had anything to do with my statements towards you or anyone else. Just so we are clear, I’m not a fan of his at all. As far as he goes, I wish he would just crawl in a hole and disappear till after the next presidential election. I believe you have said several times that you are not a fan of Joe Biden, but yet you most likely voted for him. That is the same with me and Trump. To be honest, there just hasn’t been any good choices for president in a rather long time. I hope both side’s can offer up much better choices in this next election. Sadly its gotten to a point where people are no longer voting for a person, but a Party. This is the main reason we have the problems we do.