Use a social account for faster login or easy registration.

How much wind drift in a Muzzleloader Bullet

  • fishthumper
    Participant
    Sartell, MN.
    Posts: 6866
    #2162141

    How Much wind drift do you think there is in Muzzleloader bullets. Say for example on a 10 MPH and 20 MPH cross wind. The reason I’m asking is that when my buddy sighted in his Muzzleloader he had 3 shots all group 2-3″ Left of Center. This was with about a 8-10MPH crosswind from the right. After Wounding and Not finding a deer ( Not much blood at all and lots of searching after blood stopped ) He decided to re shoot his gun to check to make sure nothing was bumped. This time he had 3 shots all grouped about 3-4″ to the right of Center. This time we had about 15-18 MPH cross wind from the Left. This seems like more wind drift than I would expect in a 270 Grain aerotip bullet leaving the muzzle at near 2,000 FPS.

    Jake
    Participant
    Brainerd
    Posts: 145
    #2162154

    I think the experts will need a little more information. Specifically what kind of distance you are shooting.

    fishthumper
    Participant
    Sartell, MN.
    Posts: 6866
    #2162160

    Lets just say at 100 Yards. I think that was about the distance of the target.

    Jimmy Jones
    Participant
    Posts: 288
    #2162163

    Lots of factors to deal with here John.

    We don’t know the distance to the target from the gun to start. Assuming the bullet is a .50 cal, it has a huge girth compared to say a .30 cal bullet so wind hitting it will be more noticable. Aerodynamically those .50 cal Power Belts are not the best. Ballistically they are the equivilent of a centerfire pistol.

    Many of todays guns are the 1:28″ twist rate. Consider that an average twist rate for, say, .30 cal is maybe 1:8″, you’re spinning that big hunk at 1/3 of the rate the .30 is spinning, which also lends itself to why you’re seeing so much drift.

    Liken the question to comparing an arrow to a baseball bat, both 30″ long. Which one has the most surface area for the wind to affect it if both are flying straight forward?

    Muzzleloaders, like crossbows, seem to garner ideas that they are instantly 100 yard weapons. Can they kill at that distance? Sure…. and considerably more. BUT, wind, rain/snow, even temperature can disrupt even the best of attempts to be accurate when one pokes them out there. A tall weed can and will screw up a shot big time if its hit. Your everyday, package muzzleloader will push a bullet near 2000 feet a second, maybe 2100 like some of the sabot slugs used today if its a .45 cal but the bullet is still not nearly as efficient as a rifle bullet traveling that fast or faster. Its just the down side of a muzzleloader and it leaves a lot resting on the shooter’s shoulders to decipher at trigger pulling time. The only way to learn to deal with wind is to get the gun zeroed on a calm dal and know exactly where the bullets will go on a calm day. Then go practice shoot on windy days so you can see first hand to what degree the wind will or can affect how your gun will place shots.

    Randy Wieland
    Participant
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 12948
    #2162228

    I did a curiosity shot with 40mph crosswind at 200 yrds. I clipped the edge of the cardboard target at 23” drift. 270gr power belt

    waldo9190
    Participant
    Cloquet, MN
    Posts: 604
    #2162346

    Putting some numbers into a ballistic calculator (G1 BC: .195, VEL: 1400 fps) yields roughly 11 inches of drift with a 10mph cross wind at 100 yards. That BC though is generous as it’s for the 250 Barnes (couldn’t find any BC for the PB aerotip), and a ballpark velocity. I’d bet if you shot with no wind he would print 6-7 inches to the right.

    suzuki
    Participant
    Woodbury, Mn
    Posts: 16556
    #2162371

    Kinda related but I thought you guys would enjoy this. Funny and informative.

    fishthumper
    Participant
    Sartell, MN.
    Posts: 6866
    #2162387

    Putting some numbers into a ballistic calculator (G1 BC: .195, VEL: 1400 fps) yields roughly 11 inches of drift with a 10mph cross wind at 100 yards. That BC though is generous as it’s for the 250 Barnes (couldn’t find any BC for the PB aerotip), and a ballpark velocity. I’d bet if you shot with no wind he would print 6-7 inches to the right.

    WOW. That is way more wind drift than I would have ever thought. Not many days where the wind is flat calm. I guess that the wind is a factor that both him and I need to pay more attention to and adjust accordingly. I could think a 45 cal. would have slightly less given a higher Velocity and probably a better BC. I am not shooting powerbelt’s. I believe the BC of my round to be around .176 and my muzzle velocity to be around 2100fps.

    TheFamousGrouse
    Participant
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 9541
    #2162468

    I could think a 45 cal. would have slightly less given a higher Velocity and probably a better BC.

    That made me laugh. “Better BC” being somewhat relative.

    You are correct, the 45 has a better BC than, say, a black Angus cow fired at a similar velocity. jester But only just barely…

    Sorry. I had to. You just don’t often see the BC come up in a discussion of 45 caliber…well…anything really.

    waldo9190
    Participant
    Cloquet, MN
    Posts: 604
    #2162616

    Right, when you go from calculating ballistics on some hot rod centerfires to crunching muzzleloader numbers the difference is QUITE stark. Makes that 15″ of drift at 600 yards not seem too bad jester

    Jimmy Jones
    Participant
    Posts: 288
    #2162635

    Unless someone is thinking of taking their muzzleloader to a Friendship shoot and stretch out to 600 to 1000 yards, bc is a non issue. The guns and bullets used at a Friendship shoot are not things you just walk into a store and buy.

    For hunters, bullet and sabot length can become an issue for some shooters struggling with accuracy as can primers, powder type. As a rule, the pre-packaged bullet/sabot offerings found at Fleet Farm and Cabelas or Scheels will work for those who are willing to “settle” for something that’s fairly accurate within maybe 150 yards. All of my hunting smokers use specific bullets, specific sabots and specific weighed powder charges, so it’s safe to say I don’t settle on a hunting round. Even with all of that, bc does not come into my mind in all of it.

    Everything I hunt with is surrounded by two factors: accuracy and the bullet’s expansion within the velocity at my maximum comfortable range. 99% of my shots are within 40 yards so drift is a non issue for me. Neither is bullet function. My longest measured shot was 178 yards and bullet function was still primo but wind was a non issue. Standing deer, severely dowhill.

    If people want to know what the wind does to thier shooting accuracy they need to shoot in the wind, first knowing where the gun puts bullets when its calm. None of this can be determined by speculation. only one thing is certain: you’re shooting bullets at less than centerfire speeds with less twist rate than centerfires and you’re shooting bullets that more resemble a Volkswagon Beetle than a centerfire bullet so wind IS going to raise heck with where you THINK the bullet should go. Bottom line….the summer is when you need to be shooting these things to understand where things go and why. Take a couple days of passes on fishing and shoot!

    grpubl7
    Participant
    Central WI
    Posts: 173
    #2176007

    The vast majority of my kills (with anything) are very close since I cut my teeth with a recurve from the ground in ’66. That said, I can appreciate precision shots at distance with all weapons…though I prefer getting close.

    Have tested ML’s at distance with higher BC projectiles from (primarily) PR Bullets out of Canada. Once you stretch shots out to 200-250 yards, you had better understand wind, topography, drift of the exact projectile/velocity that you are shooting AND the trajectory. Lots can influence the flight of that projectile and if you have the slightest concern, wounding an animal isn’t worth it.

    For “most” hunters using “most” muzzleloading projectiles having a G1 BC similar to a 4X8 sheet of plywood, restricting shots to “inside the woods” distances is prudent.

    PHOTO: 250 yard bench test with the Savage 10ML-II Smokeless muzzleloader with a 200 yard zero. There was a pretty strong, variable wind from 10 o’clock and I had to watch the mirage through the spotting scope pretty close before I turned a shot loose because the Hornady 250SST doesn’t have a great BC. All in all, the rifle held “stellar” elevation at that distance. That is 5 shots if you look close.

    Attachments:
    1. 15418417_285207595210696_7558087820422175677_o.jpg

    grpubl7
    Participant
    Central WI
    Posts: 173
    #2176189

    I have a pair of CVA 45cal bolt action rifles that I have a hard time giving up on. One shoots the MMP sabot with the 200gr SST projectile. The other shoots the PR Bullets “Dead Center” projectile that weighs 195 grains. It has a real high BC and is .357″ diameter. It shoots better than the .40″ dia projectile that weighs 200gr.

    Shot an average sized doe that was dead broadside at 45yds using that 195gr .357″ dia high-BC projectile in front of 90gr of 777. This is a pure lead projectile and a ballistic tip over a large hollow cavity. The projectile hit a little low on the shoulder and also took out the shoulder on the off side. The deer went on its chin and plowed a furrough in the 10″ of fresh snow on the ground for nearly 20 yards. The exit hole was the size of a 50 cent piece.

    https://www.prbullet.com/pts.htm

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.