Elk Round

  • ClownColor
    Inactive
    The Back 40
    Posts: 1955
    #1993180

    I know neither round is the “ideal” elk caliber but between the 6.5 creed and 308, which would fair best for elk, potential out to 400 yards?

    The 6.5 goes from one extreme to the other while researching, if even being an elk load at all. Some writers toss it in the top 10 round, others put it in the absolute not to use column.

    I love the way my 6.5 shoots. Just about to rescope the 308 but it’s got me rethinking which rifle to put the ‘ol elk scope on.

    Ballistic wise, 6.5 (143g) has slight edge over the 308 (178g) with drop, drift, recoil, and flatter, except for energy…Which is huge! If 1500 is the minimally excepted amount for elk kill, the 6.5 is just a hair under whereas the 308 is s hair over at max 400 yards. Both rounds achieve over 1500 lbs at 300 yards or less.

    Thoughts? Would you be comfortable with either round? How about at less yardage? Don’t get caught up in shot placement, we all know What happens with a well placed shot. I’d like to know if the caliber its self is enough for elk and to what range.

    Thanks,
    CC

    Angler II
    Posts: 528
    #1993187

    Shot placement is the biggest key at that yardage. If you are comfortable with the gun and can shoot it well at those distances it shouldn’t be an issue.

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13302
    #1993191

    2 things I would want. Energy and the best opportunity for a pass through- therefore no fragmenting Bullets. Anything in the solid copper like the Barnes. They just transfer so much more AVS a fragmenting bullet that looses so much on impact. After all the elk our group have harvested, I’m still amazed on how tough these animals are. Not their will, but literally how tough their hide is.

    ClownColor
    Inactive
    The Back 40
    Posts: 1955
    #1993198

    2 things I would want. Energy and the best opportunity for a pass through- therefore no fragmenting Bullets. Anything in the solid copper like the Barnes. They just transfer so much more AVS a fragmenting bullet that looses so much on impact. After all the elk our group have harvested, I’m still amazed on how tough these animals are. Not their will, but literally how tough their hide is.

    How much energy are you shooting at 400 yards? Do you feel 1500 is more than adequate with today’s bullets or would you like to see more? Would you give up 100ft-lb energy for less drop and drift or take the power?

    waldo9190
    Cloquet, MN
    Posts: 991
    #1993199

    Realistically a critter won’t know the difference between 1500 ft lbs. vs 1400 ft. lbs if it is a quality bullet placed in the right location. Take either rifle with a QUALITY projectile like the Barnes TSX/TTSX or Nosler Partition/Accubond and have at it.

    tornadochaser
    Posts: 756
    #1993302

    Splitting hairs if those calibers are your two choices. Pick an accurate load with a vetted elk bullet and go. I love my 6.5cm but if I ever decide to take up drawing for bull elk tags, I’ll likely use it as an excuse to add a bigger caliber to my safe.

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13302
    #1993358

    How much energy are you shooting at 400 yards? Do you feel 1500 is more than adequate with today’s bullets

    Clown, my short mag is in the area of 1750-1800# at 425ytds. I cap on distance for an elk with me, my rifle, and what I am comfortable with at 550yrds. I’m sure capabilities are there, it’s just what I chosen for myself.

    I think the bullet selection is more important than 100# of energy. Given your original statement to exclude shot placement, you want the deepest penetration you can get. For guys that compare wound channels in whitetail vs elk, please don’t. The hide, muscle thicknes, bone structure to an elk is much heavier than a deer. So I agree to always look at a worse case scenario. Let’s say you punch directly through a front shoulder. You need a bullet that carries as much energy through the animal. Lead Bullets expand too fast and fragment too soon on impact. I’ve seen elk shot in front shoulder bone with a 30-06 at reasonable range with massive shoulder damage and non immediate fatal wound with lead. Really look at the mass of a front shoulder with often is hit if your a little forward on a lung shot

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    TheFamousGrouse
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts: 10974
    #1993393

    Thoughts? Would you be comfortable with either round? How about at less yardage?

    Considering both dollar and opportunity (ie how often do you get to go elk hunting) cost of an elk hunt, I wouldn’t hunt with either.

    First, the dollar costs for elk. Outfitter costs (if you use one), travel costs, equipment costs if self-outfitting, and so on. It adds up bigtime these days. I go to a few outdoor shows. The dollar COST of elk has risen at a tremendous rate.

    Then, IMO, there is a bigger cost. You have to look at the opportunity cost. Elk tags don’t grow on trees nor does the time to hunt them. Multi-year waits to draw a tag, followed by the time invested in travel + hunt + meat care/transport, etc, etc, etc.

    IMO, with the vast crop of modestly-priced, super-accurate rifles that are out there these days, getting the rifle that represents enough gun to get the job done right is a modest percentage of the overall cost AND possibly very cheap insurance against disappointment.

    Obviously, if you’re talking OTC cow tags and being guided by your brother in law while staying at his house, and using his vast selection of mountain-hunting gear, then the equation changes a little as far as justifying adding a rifle. But for most people paying full whack for an elk hunt in both time and opportunity, getting enough gun for the job is the only thing that makes sense.

    I’m not a fan of the 308. Never have been. Just too many compromises in this chambering, for military use it makes sense, for hunting use, there are literally a dozen better and more versatile choices. The 6.5 CM is an over-hyped target chambering and is just too small to produce the energy margin for error necessary for bigger, tougher animals. The problem with target chamberings that become popular for hunting is that fanboys with little HUNTING experience start to invent logic about how if it’s good for something, it’s good for everything.

    As Randy very rightly points out, you cannot extrapolate what works on whitetails to what will work well on elk. Whitetails are the easiest to kill of the major NA big game species. Despite all the tall campfire tales about bulletproof bucks charging hapless hunters after absorbing 5 hits from a 300 Win Mag.

    If you handload and you chose to move ahead with the 6.5 or the 308, you could load a hot tough-bullet handload for the above chamberings. Personally, I like really boring, old-school bullets that have proved toughness on game over decades, not years. Swift A-Frame or Nosler Partitions are as good, tough, and reliable as they come when terminal performance matters.

    Grouse

    weedis
    Sauk Rapids, MN
    Posts: 1002
    #1993705

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>ClownColor wrote:</div>
    How much energy are you shooting at 400 yards? Do you feel 1500 is more than adequate with today’s bullets

    Clown, my short mag is in the area of 1750-1800# at 425ytds. I cap on distance for an elk with me, my rifle, and what I am comfortable with at 550yrds. I’m sure capabilities are there, it’s just what I chosen for myself.

    I think the bullet selection is more important than 100# of energy. Given your original statement to exclude shot placement, you want the deepest penetration you can get. For guys that compare wound channels in whitetail vs elk, please don’t. The hide, muscle thicknes, bone structure to an elk is much heavier than a deer. So I agree to always look at a worse case scenario. Let’s say you punch directly through a front shoulder. You need a bullet that carries as much energy through the animal. Lead Bullets expand too fast and fragment too soon on impact. I’ve seen elk shot in front shoulder bone with a 30-06 at reasonable range with massive shoulder damage and non immediate fatal wound with lead. Really look at the mass of a front shoulder with often is hit if your a little forward on a lung shot

    Randy, is that a 300 wsm that you use? I will be going on my first elk hunt, Montana, in October 2021 and that is what I currently shoot and plan on bringing. I believe it will be a great gun out there but always like others opinions.

    Randy Wieland
    Lebanon. WI
    Posts: 13302
    #1993811

    Randy, is that a 300 wsm that you use? I will be going on my first elk hunt, Montana, in October 2021 and that is what I currently shoot and plan on bringing. I believe it will be a great gun out there but always like others opinions.

    My primary hunting rifle is a 270 wsm. For my applications it suits me well. If I didn’t hunt whitetail, I would have gone the 300short. Excellent caliber and ballistics

    weedis
    Sauk Rapids, MN
    Posts: 1002
    #1994115

    Yes, I do love that gun. Would reccomend that caliber to anyone looking to upgrade or try something new.

    deertracker
    Posts: 8963
    #1994124

    It’s funny at my local Fleet Farm. The ammo shelves are completely bare, Except for 300wsm. That shelf is full.
    DT

    weedis
    Sauk Rapids, MN
    Posts: 1002
    #1994207

    What fleet farm is that DT? I had a heck of a time finding any prior to deer season.

    deertracker
    Posts: 8963
    #1994208

    Alexandria. If you want, send me the ammo you shoot and I’ll see if they have it.
    DT

    castle-rock-clown
    Posts: 2596
    #1994227

    My two favorites are on the surface almost identical, but shoot and perform really different. For whitetail I love my 6.5 Swede pushing 140 grain Accubonds. For elk it’s my 7mm Rem Mag pushing 160 grain Partitions. Both the rifles are Tikkas…Now scope choice is night and day and a whole nuther topic.

    mille-lacs-guy
    Chaska, MN
    Posts: 313
    #2001496

    Not sure if anybody watches Randy Newberg hunting videos but I think he has some of the best information out there on elk hunting that isn’t hyped up marketing. He uses a .308 on elk a lot and speaks highly of the .308 and it’s capabilities for elk hunting.

    tbro16
    Inactive
    St Paul
    Posts: 1170
    #2001509

    Would reccomend that caliber to anyone looking to upgrade or try something new

    Appreciate that. I initially bought a .3006 for Elk + other big game out west but am now having some regrets. I’ll be upgrading to a bigger cartridge before next October. I’m currently tossing back and forth thoughts on the 28 Nosler, 7mm RUM, 300 win mag, and 300 RUM. This cartridge would also be used on Muleys and Antelope. I’m a firm believer in cant be too dead.

    gunsmith89
    eyota, mn
    Posts: 599
    #2001606

    I would too take bullet selection over energy. I’ve killed alot of animals with 6.5 bullets. 6.5×55, 6.5rem mag and 6.5-284 and never recovered a bullet. 6.5×55(similar ballistics to the creed) has killed a ton large game in Europe. A lot of guys on the other forums that I’m on shoot alot of elk with 6.5’s and would probably be a lot more knowledgeable then me. Long Range Shooting Forum and maybe check out Rokslide.

    I have shot barnes, accubonds, berger vld’s and interbonds and have went through anything needed to. That being said I’m sure a 308 would do the same.

    waldo9190
    Cloquet, MN
    Posts: 991
    #2002283

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>weedis wrote:</div>
    Would reccomend that caliber to anyone looking to upgrade or try something new

    Appreciate that. I initially bought a .3006 for Elk + other big game out west but am now having some regrets. I’ll be upgrading to a bigger cartridge before next October. I’m currently tossing back and forth thoughts on the 28 Nosler, 7mm RUM, 300 win mag, and 300 RUM. This cartridge would also be used on Muleys and Antelope. I’m a firm believer in cant be too dead.

    Ballistics may look great on those cartridges, but have you looked at felt-recoil numbers? You’re talking 29+ lbs of recoil, so a 30% to 50% increase in felt-recoil over a 270/06/etc. The lower recoiling cartridges are more conducive to longer range days, and longer range days means more practice which is ALWAYS a good thing.

    Lots of people forget that the Swedes have been killing moose for 120+ years with the 6.5×55.

    tbro16
    Inactive
    St Paul
    Posts: 1170
    #2002417

    Wasnt long ago I couldnt have told you the difference between a .270 and a .300 win mag, but after reading countless forums, watching hunting youtube videos, listening to podcasts, and reading articles I feel the jump up to a bigger round is necessary for larger western game. Only rifle I’ve ever shot was a .30-06 and it was nothing but target practice. After experiencing how big that country is out west, I know I need as much knockdown power as I can get from long distances. I’m not the greatest of shots, which needs to be improved, but I guess the added insurance would be comforting to me.

    Not so comforting will be the recoil, as mentioned, but with an added muzzle brake I’m not overly concerned about it.

    Brad Dimond
    Posts: 1276
    #2002464

    .30-06 with a good 180 gr bullet will do anything out west just fine out to 300 yards. That’s my personal range limit, others shoot better than me and can carry it out another 100 yards. I’ve punched paper at 300 yards, am confident from a rest. I’ve hit critters out to about 400 with a .223, again from a rest. The differences in the guns and the recoil make the difference in the range variance.

    I’m not telling you to hold off on a new gun, just recognize that it is a want, not a need.

    weedis
    Sauk Rapids, MN
    Posts: 1002
    #2002476

    I must admit when I got the 300 it was hard to get through a box of bullets without my shoulder feeling it and affecting my shot. My remedy was a limb saver recoil pad. Can shoot it all day now. Recoil is deffinetely something to consider but there are was to remedy it though.

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