Does E-85 make sense pricewise now?

Was wondering what people’s thoughts are on filling up with E-85 given current gas prices. I had heard before that given the loss in efficiency (mpg) the price was close to a wash or slightly favorable to regular (regular being 10% ethanol). Has that math changed for anyone. I saw E-85 for a $1 cheaper than regular, so almost thinking it’s worth it. Odder yet, E-30 was even CHEAPER than E-85 and I’ve heard that’s actually pretty close to as efficient as regular. Anyone done the math on their pickups and care to chime in? I think I may give it a whirl, at the least with E-30.

I’ve been contemplating E-85 too. I was told it needs to be at least 50 cents/gal cheaper to make it worthwhile based on the mileage reduction.

There may be long term effects from using it though. John Rasmussen seems to be knowledgeable on these types of things so maybe he will chime in.

I just feel like there is better ways to save money if that’s the main goal. Unknown long term effects on an engine isn’t something I care to gamble with in this vehicle market.

I just suck it up at the pump, and maybe chill out when it comes to buying liquor.

To each their own, if it allows you another shadow rap, by all means.

The truth is no.
Ethanol has less than half the heat energy per pound compared to gasoline.
So, you will use twice as much to go the same distance stopping twice as often.
Plain and simple, there is no free lunch.

Like iowaboy said, NO.

Iowaboy1 wrote:

The truth is no.
Ethanol has less than half the heat energy per pound compared to gasoline.
So, you will use twice as much to go the same distance stopping twice as often.
Plain and simple, there is no free lunch.

I’m going to stop you there on the chemistry side. Ethanol is about 30 mj/kg with strait gasoline at 44 mj/kg so I think your numbers are off. I can see a 33% decrease in energy but you also have to take into account that gas is blended so the ratios change even more. From what I’ve seen it’s closer to a 25% decrease in efficiency but again another variable is E-85 can be anything from 50-85% ethanol. There’s no doubt ethanol isn’t as efficient energy wise, but I’m specifically asking about price/distance and want to hear real world experiences.

I will call your chemistry lesson and pit it against real world experience as I work with this garbage every dang day.
Ethanol has around 10300 BTUs of heat energy per pound.
Gasoline has right at 243000 BTUs of heat energy per pound, and when you blend it you derate the value of BOTH.

I have personally tested several blends at many stations and I will tell you as a matter of fact that E10 is testing anywhere from 10-30 percent.
E15 I’d testing over 40 at some locations.
E85, good Lord what a friggin joke, testing from as low as 20 to as high as 95 percent!!!

One of the rules of physics is you cannot create or destroy an energy source without using one already in existence.
And lastly,never tell me I don’t know wtf I am talking about!!!

Seems I stuck a nerve but did not mean to. I’m just seeing different energy values than what your posting and think the math is a more complicated than that, which I think your 2nd point helps to show everyone. If the blends are nowhere near what they are posted to be, are people actually seeing the math work out i.e. buying e-10 (but it’s actually e-30) and paying $4.80/gallon vs buying e-85 (but it’s actually e-20) and paying $3.60/gallon.

No harm finicky, I just want the truth out there.
The sad thing about math is is it can be manipulated to fit a narrative.
I speak from over 130K hours of hands on experience not counting 10K hours working in aviation.
And that doesn’t count helping buddies out or overtime.

For the sake of simplicity, I will peg gas at $5/gallon and accept Finicky’s proposition that ethanol is 25% less energy dense than gasoline. Straight ethanol to gas would require ethanol to sell for $3.75/gallon to break even. Assuming E85 is 85% ethanol, the price would need to be in the $3.94/gallon range to compete; assuming 50% ethanol the number would be around $4.38.

Iowaboy1 wrote:

Ethanol has around 10300 BTUs of heat energy per pound.
Gasoline has right at 243000 BTUs of heat energy per pound,

Extra zero on the gasoline?

Ethenol and gas have different weight by volume, why are we all of a sudden using pounds as our measuring unit for fuel. I buy by the gallon, I check my mileage by the gallon, and my tank holds xx amount of gallons. My anecdotal experience is that if it’s not greater than 26% cheaper I’m not even considering it, which it rarely is anymore. Every time I stop at a gas station I end up buying beef jerky which cost per pound really throws off the calculations.

No – never will.

No it does not make sense you have to look at the cost at the pump and consider what it cost us in tax dollars to produce e85. Enough said don’t burn your food!

Reef W wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>iowaboy1 wrote:</div>
Ethanol has around 10300 BTUs of heat energy per pound.
Gasoline has right at 243000 BTUs of heat energy per pound,

Extra zero on the gasoline?

Oops!! Yep,my bad, sausage fingers and tiny keys on phone.

We used 50% as a starting point for tuning race engines and it was always pretty close. I wish we had e85 when I was younger, government subsidized race fuel. Back when gas was $1/gallon we were paying between $5-6 for our alcohol engines. If you do a lot of in town driving it may be close.

I have always read/heard e85 will cost you at LEAST 30% in mpg.
Shucks up until oil companies started jacking up the cost of reg non ethanol 87 & 91 octane fuels you were way ahead putting those in your vehicles. For along time I burned 91 premium because it was usually only 25 to 30 cents higher than 10% ethanol crap. Now alot of places charge a buck or more for 91 non ethanol fuel.

Yes, 30% is a good general reference number. If the savings is 30% or more, yes it makes sense.
It’s not a bad idea to run a tank or 2 every so often just to keep the fuel system clean too, E85 is a great cleaner.

Great video right here:

I didn’t notice any difference in mileage with my 3.6 in the caravan. After 6 months it would not start right away. I had over 100K on the clock so I took it to the dealer for new spark plugs. Didn’t say a thing to the dealer service rep about not starting as it should and he told me to stop using E85 and it would run better. One week of regular fuel and it cleared right up.

I have not tried it yet. However with it approaching $2.00 a gallon cheaper I should be.

There is a video on YouTube some guys did comparing the two fuels. They go from Los Angeles to Las Vegas and back. If I remember right the price difference was less the 50 cents at the time. It was not cost effective at the time with those price differences. However with todays price difference at least where I am it it most certainly will be.

A friendly reminder to those that don’t know. Only flex fuel vehicles can burn E85. A simple way of knowing that is too look at your fuel cap.

I hate government subsidies. We have no business supporting a market that can’t make it on it’s own….(not just the Farmahal subsidies)

However,

I’ve been running E85 for at least a year now. Running from Afton to River Falls to Redwing. I don’t keep records but my truck does and it’s still averaging 20.x mpg with a high of 23.x mpg using E85.

Someone needs to support the farmers and their duel duel tractors.

Out here in SD (watertown area) E-30 is close to 70 cents cheaper than regular unleaded and E-85 is close to $1.75 cheaper than regular unleaded. I have been using E-30 strictly in all vehicles and havent had a single problem and actually seen an uptick in mileage. The wifes explorer is a flex-fuel and have been using E-85. It burns faster and the mileage is reduced, but at that spread it certainly makes sense to use E-85.

E 85 is great if the price is 30% less to make up for the lost fuel milage.
However my owners manual specifically says NOT to use it.

My wife’s car can use it but runs like crap after a couple of tanks. Not worth it. My truck says not to run it so I don’t nor would I.

I ran E85 in my 2018 Silverado and the gauges lit up like a Christmas Tree and it ran really rough. Never again. I havent seen E30 where I fill, but E15 is readily available and generally a good amount less. I have run that without problem in a variety of vehicles.

Guys, you have to have a flex fuel vehicle to run E85… You shouldn’t just run E85 in any vehicle. Your gas cap or gas door should say if you can run it or not…

rjthehunter wrote:

Guys, you have to have a flex fuel vehicle to run E85… You shouldn’t just run E85 in any vehicle. Your gas cap or gas door should say if you can run it or not…

Mine was flex fuel and it ran like dogcrap on it. Almost as bad as Sam’s gas. Ive read that it takes the computer some time to figure out the change in gas when using a higher level of ethanol. They say it should only take like 10 miles or so, but my truck was literally not driveable on it. I would consider it on a partial tank, but this was a full tank and never again.

Like Onestout says, E85 is really only beneficial in performance applications…

For me, it allows me to turn up the boost on my SXS, giving roughly 30hp gain at the wheels…Well worth it when fuel is available, specially in the sand dunes. However, I go from about 10MPG to 5.5 or so…Better than spending $11-15/gal on 110…

I have never and will never use it in any other vehicle…even if designed for it.

I know some farmers that run e-85 in old farm trucks before everything had a computer and have never had a problem with it.

CaptainMusky wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>rjthehunter wrote:</div>
Guys, you have to have a flex fuel vehicle to run E85… You shouldn’t just run E85 in any vehicle. Your gas cap or gas door should say if you can run it or not…

Mine was flex fuel and it ran like dogcrap on it. Almost as bad as Sam’s gas. Ive read that it takes the computer some time to figure out the change in gas when using a higher level of ethanol. They say it should only take like 10 miles or so, but my truck was literally not driveable on it. I would consider it on a partial tank, but this was a full tank and never again.

My truck says it’s flex fuel, but I’m not going to try it. With nothing to gain, I can’t imagine it would be healthy for the engine to switch fuel types after years and over 100k miles of E87.